Irish ports question

bear1

Hello all,

Looking for a bit of advice as to what to do in this situation.
I'm planning on coming home in October and bring the Volvo back with me and sell it off for whatever it's worth (feck all).
The problem I have is the tax will be out of date and so will the NCT at that point.
My original plan was to drive the car to Cherbourg and ferry it to Dublin Port (AFAIK ports are treated as still international soil so tax/nct are not crimes till I leave the port) but after that I am unsure how to get it to Galway.
Am I even allowed to enter the port without an NCT or tax? If yes then I was thinking of having it transported home.
Or should I just play it safe and fly home, cheaper in the end but then I'm stuck with the bloody thing.
Any opinions?

bear1

At the moment it is taxed and NCT'd but it will run out by September.
Hmm I guess I should fly home.

First Up

bear1 wrote: »

Hello all,

Looking for a bit of advice as to what to do in this situation.
I'm planning on coming home in October and bring the Volvo back with me and sell it off for whatever it's worth (feck all).
The problem I have is the tax will be out of date and so will the NCT at that point.
My original plan was to drive the car to Cherbourg and ferry it to Dublin Port (AFAIK ports are treated as still international soil so tax/nct are not crimes till I leave the port) but after that I am unsure how to get it to Galway.
Am I even allowed to enter the port without an NCT or tax? If yes then I was thinking of having it transported home.
Or should I just play it safe and fly home, cheaper in the end but then I'm stuck with the bloody thing.
Any opinions?

What's your concern - that the car will be taken off you when you try to leave Dublin Port? Would think that highly unlikely. It's just customs and in my experience they don't check tax, NCT. Even if you were challenged, you could explain it has been out of the country. I think the worst would be you be given a week or whatever to get it sorted. You are unlikely to be the only untaxed car on the N4. Personally I would chance it.

bear1

First Up wrote: »

What's your concern - that the car will be taken off you when you try to leave Dublin Port? Would think that highly unlikely. It's just customs and in my experience they don't check tax, NCT. Even if you were challenged, you could explain it has been out of the country. I think the worst would be you be given a week or whatever to get it sorted. You are unlikely to be the only untaxed car on the N4. Personally I would chance it.

That's exactly my concern.
That when I get off the ship in Dublin they would have police/customs checking those that enter.
Plus I know that they sometimes do spot checks on the motorways and showing up with no tax or NCT might not go down so well.

First Up

bear1 wrote: »

That's exactly my concern.
That when I get off the ship in Dublin they would have police/customs checking those that enter.
Plus I know that they sometimes do spot checks on the motorways and showing up with no tax or NCT might not go down so well.

I come off Ferries from France a couple of times a year - usually Rosslare. You drive through a customs shed and only the odd vehicle gets stopped. No police. Most are just waved through. Isn't even a passport check most times. Even if stopped, there is no way they would take the car. You will just be told to get it sorted quick and they might want you to show up at a garda station by a certain time to show it has been done. Same would apply if stopped on the N4. They will only confiscate a car if they think it has been imported illegally so if you own it and it is an Irish reg you will be OK.

corktina

depends how long the tax is out by

First Up

corktina wrote: »

depends how long the tax is out by

If he can explain/show the car has been out of the country for a period it should be ok. Even in the worst case, they don't confiscate cars for not having road tax.

coylemj

First Up wrote: »

I come off Ferries from France a couple of times a year - usually Rosslare. You drive through a customs shed and only the odd vehicle gets stopped. No police. Most are just waved through. Isn't even a passport check most times.

+1 If it's an Irish registered car you won't have a problem. The customs people don't care about tax & NCT, they're looking for drugs and excessive importation of cigarettes.

First Up wrote: »

Same would apply if stopped on the N4. They will only confiscate a car if they think it has been imported illegally so if you own it and it is an Irish reg you will be OK.

-1 If you're stopped by the Gardai at a normal checkpoint I'd be pretty certain that they will seize the car because by the sound of it your tax and NCT will be well out of date.

bear1

It would be the end of October and the NCT/Tax expire the beginning of September.
So lets say I'll be 2 months out of date.
Judging from what I can see on the net it seems to be in and around 200e to have it recovered from the port.
The risk I think is too great IMO, if was about a month I would chance it and tell them the story but 2 months seems a tad too much.

First Up

bear1 wrote: »

It would be the end of October and the NCT/Tax expire the beginning of September.
So lets say I'll be 2 months out of date.
Judging from what I can see on the net it seems to be in and around 200e to have it recovered from the port.
The risk I think is too great IMO, if was about a month I would chance it and tell them the story but 2 months seems a tad too much.

Its your call but I think you are being way too cautious. A couple of months overdue, with the car having been out of the country is not going to get your car taken off you.
But its your call.

Miscreant

bear1 wrote: »

It would be the end of October and the NCT/Tax expire the beginning of September.
So lets say I'll be 2 months out of date.
Judging from what I can see on the net it seems to be in and around 200e to have it recovered from the port.
The risk I think is too great IMO, if was about a month I would chance it and tell them the story but 2 months seems a tad too much.

You could always throw 3 months tax online and have someone at home post you the new disk. NCT can be booked online too so you could have proof of a booked NCT with you when you arrive.
No need to worry then.

First Up

Miscreant wrote: »

You could always throw 3 months tax online and have someone at home post you the new disk. NCT can be booked online too so you could have proof of a booked NCT with you when you arrive.
No need to worry then.

Good idea.

corktina

Miscreant wrote: »

You could always throw 3 months tax online and have someone at home post you the new disk. NCT can be booked online too so you could have proof of a booked NCT with you when you arrive.
No need to worry then.

proof of a booked NCT isn't enough to be certain of getting through a checkpoint. You are reliant on the Gard using his discretion. It is an offence to be on the road with no NCT, mandatory court appearance, 5 points and up to €1500 fine on conviction. Over two months out of date tax and there's a good chance the car will be lifted....but as said elsewhere...your call OP

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

It would be the end of October and the NCT/Tax expire the beginning of September.
So lets say I'll be 2 months out of date.

If tax expired by end of August, and you will be travelling end of October, then tax is expired less than 2 months, and therefore car can not be legally seized because of tax.

NCT is different thing.
While in Ireland garda might be understandable that you were abroad and couldn't NCT the car, but I'd be more worried about driving between Poland and Ireland without valid NCT.
If you get pulled over, you might run into serious trouble, especially in Germany, but pretty much everywhere, including Poland, Belgium, Holland, France, etc...

Also it's better to go through UK, than driving all the way up to Cherbourg.

CiniO

OSI wrote: »

For you to legally drive the car within the EU, it needs to be road legal within it's home country.

There is no such requirement.
Car needs to fulfill certain requirements when in international traffic, and this is mostly covered by 1968 Vienna Convention on Road traffic.

Therefore, by not having tax or NCT, it is neither legal to drive it in Ireland, or any part of the EU.

Without NCT - I agree - It's illegal to drive anywhere in the EU.
Without Tax it's only illegal to drive in Ireland. Everywhere else Irish tax is not required.

bear1

Just to clarify, the car is currently NCT'd so I am driving legally.
Luckily I've a few months to plan ahead, just wanted to see what others thought about it.

First Up

bear1 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the car is currently NCT'd so I am driving legally.
Luckily I've a few months to plan ahead, just wanted to see what others thought about it.

So, the car is somewhere outside Ireland and won't be back until a month or so after the NCT expires? Not a federal offence. Book the appointment as suggested and unless you meet an absolute pig of a cop, you will be fine. You have a good explanation and the odds of it being picked up at either the Port or on the drive to Galway are pretty small anyway.

As also advised, you can buy a few months tax online - even if you only have the email confirmation instead of the disc, that should get you past any questions.

Do I understand you are driving it from Poland? I'd be a lot more concerned about that end of the journey than the short bit here.

djimi

First Up wrote: »

Its your call but I think you are being way too cautious. A couple of months overdue, with the car having been out of the country is not going to get your car taken off you.
But its your call.

You seem very confident of this. If the tax is out for more than two months then the car can be confiscated. Im not sure what relevance you think the car having been out of the country is? Its still an Irish registered car and still must abide by Irish law.

Whether of not the Gardai will actually take the car is another matter, but like everything else, even if 9 out of 10 people get away with it, there is always the 1 who doesnt.

bear1

First Up wrote: »

So, the car is somewhere outside Ireland and won't be back until a month or so after the NCT expires? Not a federal offence. Book the appointment as suggested and unless you meet an absolute pig of a cop, you will be fine. You have a good explanation and the odds of it being picked up at either the Port or on the drive to Galway are pretty small anyway.

As also advised, you can buy a few months tax online - even if you only have the email confirmation instead of the disc, that should get you past any questions.

Do I understand you are driving it from Poland? I'd be a lot more concerned about that end of the journey than the short bit here.

Yes from Poland.
From what I've noticed on the continent they don't have these sort of spot checks but you never know but I am not worried about driving it through the EU.
I'll probably do as suggested and tax it online and printout the confirmation and pre-book the NCT.
Hopefully that will be enough.

bear1

djimi wrote: »

You seem very confident of this. If the tax is out for more than two months then the car can be confiscated. Im not sure what relevance you think the car having been out of the country is? Its still an Irish registered car and still must abide by Irish law.

Whether of not the Gardai will actually take the car is another matter, but like everything else, even if 9 out of 10 people get away with it, there is always the 1 who doesnt.

Yeah and it wouldn't surprise me if it was me I'm that unlucky

First Up

djimi wrote: »

You seem very confident of this. If the tax is out for more than two months then the car can be confiscated. Im not sure what relevance you think the car having been out of the country is? Its still an Irish registered car and still must abide by Irish law.

Whether of not the Gardai will actually take the car is another matter, but like everything else, even if 9 out of 10 people get away with it, there is always the 1 who doesnt.

As already advised, the tax can be sorted online.

djimi

First Up wrote: »

As already advised, the tax can be sorted online.

It can, but thats not what you were originally advising.

Also, sorting the tax online wont mean you have a valid disc in the window, which is an offense in itself.

First Up

djimi wrote: »

It can, but thats not what you were originally advising.

Also, sorting the tax online wont mean you have a valid disc in the window, which is an offense in itself.

I'm still saying that he could risk it but with the online option, that isn't necessary. If he has a few months he has time to get the disc but even if not, the email confirmation will satisfy just about anyone - unless he meets you of course.

The OP's original question was could he bring the car back at all. I hope that he has received enough re-assurance that he can.

djimi

First Up wrote: »

I'm still saying that he could risk it but with the online option, that isn't necessary. If he has a few months he has time to get the disc but even if not, the email confirmation will satisfy just about anyone - unless he meets you of course.

The OP's original question was could he bring the car back at all. I hope that he has received enough re-assurance that he can.

Im not a Garda, Im simply pointing out that confidently assuring the OP that they will be grand to drive an unlawful car is a risky game, even if its only a 1 in 10 chance that it wont be.

If they can get the disc sorted online and sent over to them before they leave then great. If they cant get hold of the disc, even if the car has been taxed online, then it will mean driving a car that is not road legal. It most likely wont be an issue, countless numbers do it every day on the roads in Ireland without ever having an issue. But the risk is there, and its up to the OP to decide whether they want to chance it.

bear1

I'm going to buy the tax online at the end of August.
Say it takes about a week to get to my Irish address and then my parents will send it priority to me so I guess at the most I'll be two weeks out of tax (which doesn't matter in the EU).
So thanks to the advice on the previous page that part of driving will be taken care of.
The NCT on the other hand is a bit tricky but I think I can talk my way around it.
Personally, I wouldn't have chanced driving from Dublin to Galway with no tax or NCT. I could be stopped at any point or say crash and I'd be in a quite a big problem.
Cheers to all for the advice

First Up

djimi wrote: »

Im not a Garda, Im simply pointing out that confidently assuring the OP that they will be grand to drive an unlawful car is a risky game, even if its only a 1 in 10 chance that it wont be.

If they can get the disc sorted online and sent over to them before they leave then great. If they cant get hold of the disc, even if the car has been taxed online, then it will mean driving a car that is not road legal. It most likely wont be an issue, countless numbers do it every day on the roads in Ireland without ever having an issue. But the risk is there, and its up to the OP to decide whether they want to chance it.

I don't think me or anyone else was "confidently assuring" it would be grand but we have offered opinions based on experience of arriving off ferries and also of driving in Ireland.

The odds of being stopped are not the issue. It is not unusual for people to be without a tax disc for a short period and having the official receipt or email will at very worst mean having to show the disc at a later date. The NCT system is so back-logged that many people are out of date and being able to show you have an appointment will also at worst buy you time.

I'm not advocating a cavalier attitude to the law but the circumstances described are such that a bit of flexibility can be expected and suggesting he might lose the car is scaremongering in my view.

Anyway, OP seems happy so that's the main thing.

djimi

First Up wrote: »

I don't think me or anyone else was "confidently assuring" it would be grand but we have offered opinions based on experience of arriving off ferries and also of driving in Ireland.

Im sorry to do this but:

"Even if stopped, there is no way they would take the car. You will just be told to get it sorted quick and they might want you to show up at a garda station by a certain time to show it has been done."

"A couple of months overdue, with the car having been out of the country is not going to get your car taken off you."

"Even in the worst case, they don't confiscate cars for not having road tax."

They can, and do, confiscate cars for nothing road tax. Legally the car can be taken if the tax is out by more than two months.

Im aware I sound like a prick, but its one of the things that annoys me on this forum sometimes, the confident "ah sure itll be grand" attitude when advising something that somewhat less than legal. In most cases it probably will be grand, but the OP needs to know the situation properly and let them make up their own mind whether or not to chance it. Like I said, someone has to be the 1 in 10/100/1000 or whatever that it isnt grand for.

Im not trying to scaremonger, Im just telling it as it is. If the OP were to chance it and ended up having their car confiscated then I dont think they would thank you for telling them that there is no way that it would happen.

First Up

djimi wrote: »

Im sorry to do this but:

"Even if stopped, there is no way they would take the car. You will just be told to get it sorted quick and they might want you to show up at a garda station by a certain time to show it has been done."

"A couple of months overdue, with the car having been out of the country is not going to get your car taken off you."

"Even in the worst case, they don't confiscate cars for not having road tax."

They can, and do, confiscate cars for nothing road tax. Legally the car can be taken if the tax is out by more than two months.

Im aware I sound like a prick, but its one of the things that annoys me on this forum sometimes, the confident "ah sure itll be grand" attitude when advising something that somewhat less than legal. In most cases it probably will be grand, but the OP needs to know the situation properly and let them make up their own mind whether or not to chance it. Like I said, someone has to be the 1 in 10/100/1000 or whatever that it isnt grand for.

Im not trying to scaremonger, Im just telling it as it is. If the OP were to chance it and ended up having their car confiscated then I dont think they would thank you for telling them that there is no way that it would happen.

Based on the information provided by the OP about the dates/time lapse involved and the alternatives he was considering, I fully stand over the advice offered. If someone has an experience that contradicts it - i.e. a case where a car was impounded in comparable circumstances, I will happily stand corrected.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

Yes from Poland.
From what I've noticed on the continent they don't have these sort of spot checks but you never know but I am not worried about driving it through the EU.
I'll probably do as suggested and tax it online and printout the confirmation and pre-book the NCT.
Hopefully that will be enough.

See I'd be opposite thoughts than you.
If your car will be out of tax and NCT, I'd be much more worried about Continental part of the journey than Irish part.

Road checkpoints in Ireland and very rare, and even if you get pulled over, in 99% cases gard will let you go if you explain that you just came from long term visit abroad.

However I wouldn't risk myself driving without valid NCT through f.e. Germany.

I've driven newly purchased UK registered car from London to Holyhead without Tax, and insurance confirmed only by printed email and I was happy with that - so I'm generally not too worried about such things.
But I woulnd't drive through Germany without valid NCT.

Out of 6 times I've driven from Poland to Ireland through Germany in recent years I was twice pulled over just after the boarder for a road check.

mgbgt1978

djimi wrote: »

"A couple of months overdue, with the car having been out of the country is not going to get your car taken off you."

"Even in the worst case, they don't confiscate cars for not having road tax."

They can, and do, confiscate cars for nothing road tax. Legally the car can be taken if the tax is out by more than two months.

While this is true.....in this case the Op has already stated that the Tax would be expired by just less than two months.
Therefore the Guards would not be within their rights to confiscate the car based on the expired tax.

As for the NCT, plenty of people driving around this country with an expired NCT and evidence of an appointment at a future date. Once they're not taking the p!ss (constantly cancelling & re-booking) they are rarely, if ever, summonsed for this.
As you are well aware Djimi the online NCT booking system often shows no available slots for 6 months. In fairness,the OP can hardly ring them and ask to be put on the list for a cancellation. So, all he can do is book a date online, if he can even find one.

Just keeping it relevant to the OP's query.

bear1

CiniO wrote: »

See I'd be opposite thoughts than you.
If your car will be out of tax and NCT, I'd be much more worried about Continental part of the journey than Irish part.

Road checkpoints in Ireland and very rare, and even if you get pulled over, in 99% cases gard will let you go if you explain that you just came from long term visit abroad.

However I wouldn't risk myself driving without valid NCT through f.e. Germany.

I've driven newly purchased UK registered car from London to Holyhead without Tax, and insurance confirmed only by printed email and I was happy with that - so I'm generally not too worried about such things.
But I woulnd't drive through Germany without valid NCT.

Out of 6 times I've driven from Poland to Ireland through Germany in recent years I was twice pulled over just after the boarder for a road check.

If I can ask, was it in an Irish registered car?
If yes did they check the NCT? Or even know what it is?
Just curious as to how up to date they are with this.
If I were to have out of date tax driving through the EU this would be of no concern to the local authorities as it is not to them that the tax is owed.
I will have the tax so that isn't a problem.

CelticRambler

CiniO wrote: »

If you get pulled over, you might run into serious trouble, especially in Germany, but pretty much everywhere, including Poland, Belgium, Holland, France, etc...

You can scrub France from that list. The only time you're likely to get pulled as a foreign driver is if you're speeding. Then you've got far worse to worry about than your tax. Besides, there's no car tax in France, so they won't care whether you've a disc or not.

I have never, ever, heard of anyone driving an Irish or UK reg car being pulled over by continental police for anything other than speeding or else being stopped at a breathalyser check point, oh and one family that obviously had more people in the car than seatbelts. Definitely over-thinking and over-worrying the situation, imo.

slimjimmc

bear1 wrote: »

I'm going to buy the tax online at the end of August.
Say it takes about a week to get to my Irish address and then my parents will send it priority to me so I guess at the most I'll be two weeks out of tax (which doesn't matter in the EU).
So thanks to the advice on the previous page that part of driving will be taken care of.
The NCT on the other hand is a bit tricky but I think I can talk my way around it.
Personally, I wouldn't have chanced driving from Dublin to Galway with no tax or NCT. I could be stopped at any point or say crash and I'd be in a quite a big problem.
Cheers to all for the advice

You will be able to renew your tax online at anytime during the month of August and it will be valid until the same expiry date. So other than for lack of funds there's no benefit to waiting until just before it expires the end of Aug. eg. 3 months tax renewed anytime in Aug expires on the last day of Nov regardless of what date in Aug you buy. The renewed disc is also valid from the date of issue.

In my experience if you renew online you'll have the disc at your Irish address within 3 working days.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

If I can ask, was it in an Irish registered car?

Yes.
I'd say both times I was stopped it was because car was Irish registered.
They are very often standing right behind the border, with binoculars, and if they see someone suspicious, they follow him and pull him over. Obviously Irish registered car driving from Poland to Germany is suspicious enough, that's why I got pulled twice on two occasions. However both were late at night. Maybe chance to be pulled over is less during the day when traffic is greater.

If yes did they check the NCT? Or even know what it is?
Just curious as to how up to date they are with this.

I don't actually know. I didn't ask if they knew what NCT was.
They asked me for a licence, registration cert and insurance cert. He looked at discs on the window but didn't say anything. All was up to date.
I was bit worried, as I heard in Germany you can't have a towbar when you are not towing a trailer (you need detachable one). Well - I had normal one, they've seen it and didn't say anything, so maybe they are not that strict as people say. But I'd be very careful with German police anyway.

If I were to have out of date tax driving through the EU this would be of no concern to the local authorities as it is not to them that the tax is owed.
I will have the tax so that isn't a problem.

With tax it's true. You don't need it when outside Ireland.
I traveled many times without tax, without any bother.

No Pants

Any advantage to a documented change in ownership just before he comes off the boat?