DE FOs Flybe ATPL average criteria

KnotABother

I was looking through the general "oh **** I need to find a job" index and came across the fact that Flybe are recruiting DE FOs. I read through the criteria and found that you need the FATPL, Class 1 etc etc plus a 90% average in the ATPL theory exams. There was no mention of first times passes in flight tests that I could see....not even that you had to have first time passes in the theory exams themselves.

It struck me that the 90% average was an odd one. From my experience and certainly the experience of others I have met the ATPL exams are largely skim the book and learn the question bank affairs. Now I did actually learn the stuff and have kept learning it and revising it over time but I'll admit the major exam tool was the question bank. Some places dont even have books it's just learn the question bank and pass with very little actual knowledge of things. Surely Flybe must be aware a 90% average is representative of very little and flights tests, interviews and sim checks are a better measure of a pilot.

folbotcar

I have knowledge of their recruitment method but it's strikes me that Flybe might be very well aware of the question bank method of passing the test. This is their way of eliminating people who simply skim the books to pass the test. While 90% may seem arbitrary, maybe in their terms they find that above that figure their candidates will probably have a greater understanding of what they studied and have shown the ability retain information.

Bear in mind that type ratings require a deep knowledge of the aircraft and a comprehensive written test. More than one person has fallen at that particular hurdle. Maybe their experience is that those who scrape across the line in the writtens will also struggle with type ratings.

Just a suggestion. It could just be arbitrary or maybe the requirements are set by someone old school like me who had to do full essay type written exams and is prejudiced against those 'easy' multi choice questions.

Growler!!!

All of the companies know what the carry on is with regard to ATPL question banks. That's why at the interview stage so many people can be whittled down with just a few middle of the road questions on a subject.

Without the question being presented to the candidate in an a, b, c or d format many of the question bank learners will respond with a blank look then a rambling answer trying to grasp the key words from memory.

As I said companies know the score and this is why there are so many stages to airline interviews. Many consist of interview and more so competency based interview, psychometric exams, group excercises and sim check.

It is rare that a bluffer will get through all stages and then pass a line check after a type rating without being completely prepared.

It seems odd that Flybe are recruiting as they dumped a lot of their Embraer guys last year.

Mickey_D

Is the theory that they're trying to eliminate the "question bank" applicants only - It doesnt make a grain of sense; it's more difficult to learn the material of the ATPL's than it is to remember the answers to questions!

KnotABother

I can understand them saying a 90% average would mean people who have a deep knowledge of the subjects if that indeed was the case, but to be honest that cannot be said to be the case. Sure people may have 90+ and know it all but I know plenty of guys(I wont name names) who have a 95%+ average and wouldn't know an elevator from a lift or vice versa! I have one friend who QBed so much he didn't need to read the question he just knew the answer from the shape of the question! He got a 97% average and I can tell you now he was eaten alive at a RYR interview. He was asked when you might experience Mach Tuck(not even what it was just when) and he hadn't a clue!(and if he reads this you know who you are!!).

It just seemed a little random to me...like asking only people born in an even year to apply.

folbotcar

But isn't that just the point? Your friend with 97% was quickly found out at the interview stage and shown the door. As will anyone whose scores fail to match their knowledge. At least by setting the a minimum of 90% you whittle down the numbers of applicants. If you haven't managed to get above 90% with the help of the question banks then you're probably not good enough. You could argue that it's unfair and arbitrary for someone who has the knowledge and only scored 89% and you'd be right but it's their ball and you play by their rules.

Besides, with all due respect the ATPLs are not exactly the toughest exams in the world. Plus they've never been easier to pass with question banks, mandatory ground school and all the help online you really should be scoring high marks.

In the past with written answers you had to demonstrate your knowledge often with diagrams. There were only books to study and they were as dull and dry as you could get and while you could get past exam papers there was always one or two questions that were new and could trip you up as I found out to my cost. Ground school was limited too. But even then frankly, I felt the Leaving Cert was tougher.

Stovepipe

I'd say that these criteria, apart from the standard fATPL and Class 1 obvious stuff is somewhat aspirational, as a lot of candidates will not have passed every exam, on the ground or in the air, first time. The interviewers also want to know if you are in current flying practise and it would surprise you to know that many candidates are not, ie, they came out of the schools and found themselves too broke to keep up their ME-IR and, if they do not get an airline job in short order, find themselves getting another job to pay the bills and flying soon falls down the food chain. I have met several candidates who had the bare minimum to keep their CPL current and often did that in the fortnight before interview. The amount of candidates that struggle to stay flying is huge and many depend on slaving on glider or para airfields to keep going, or the generosity of families or friends. There's more to the airline job than just being a shiny boy in the exams and a lot of candidates simply have no grasp of what the environment is really like.

regards
Stovepipe

folbotcar

Exactly Stovepipe and their are few enough glider tow and para jobs too. Even so, some people turn up their nose at these kind of jobs. Stating they don't need single engine hours. Heard that from a 260 hour pilot. :rolleyes: