PTRB, checking property is registered

TheDoc

Interesting find.

The PTRB website getting some traction on reddit/ireland as a someone put up that you could download the relevant register, and check if your property is registered.

Having a look, mine is not.

Is there an actual issue here?

I've heard and read the PTRB mentioned numerous times on this forum, but not sure on the actual impacts of the propoerty not being registered. I've no issue with the landlord, by all accounts a nice bloke who's been a great help.

Typically any bits and bobs need doing, I just do it, tend not to bother the landlord unless its something relevant, which at this point, havn't needed to contact him about.

Just interested to hear if maybe this is a point of concern. Why do landlords need to register with the PTRB. I'm a shrewd operator, so I'm just wondering if there is some legal obligations etc., then I might just use this as a tactic when it comes to the next term of the lease.

Coincidentally enough, the PTRB website also shows average rent pricing accross a number of variants, while there is obviously caveats to any statistical data, looks like I'm paying a fair bit over the odds.

I'm one of the unfortunate people who moved property at the start of this year, when it was a madhouse and prices shot through the perverbial roof

athtrasna

TheDoc wrote: »

Interesting find.

The PTRB website getting some traction on reddit/ireland as a someone put up that you could download the relevant register, and check if your property is registered.

Having a look, mine is not.

Is there an actual issue here?

I've heard and read the PTRB mentioned numerous times on this forum, but not sure on the actual impacts of the propoerty not being registered. I've no issue with the landlord, by all accounts a nice bloke who's been a great help.

Typically any bits and bobs need doing, I just do it, tend not to bother the landlord unless its something relevant, which at this point, havn't needed to contact him about.

Just interested to hear if maybe this is a point of concern. Why do landlords need to register with the PTRB. I'm a shrewd operator, so I'm just wondering if there is some legal obligations etc., then I might just use this as a tactic when it comes to the next term of the lease.

Coincidentally enough, the PTRB website also shows average rent pricing accross a number of variants, while there is obviously caveats to any statistical data, looks like I'm paying a fair bit over the odds.

I'm one of the unfortunate people who moved property at the start of this year, when it was a madhouse and prices shot through the perverbial roof

It's of no concern to you as a tenant, you have full rights. The register is also notoriously out of date.

TheDoc

athtrasna wrote: »

It's of no concern to you as a tenant, you have full rights. The register is also notoriously out of date.

I've heard it mentioned a number of times on here in terms of having the property registered.

Am I perhaps confusing two seperate entities of "registration"? I get the PTRB are somewhat important, they get a fair mention, but no one has been somewhat explicit in what they do and their purpose in terms of having a propoerty registered with them.

Also the register is a Database export, with the caveat of the data being at it's oldest, 7 days old. So it doesn't appear that out of date.

murphaph

TheDoc wrote: »

Also the register is a Database export, with the caveat of the data being at it's oldest, 7 days old. So it doesn't appear that out of date.

It should be like this but something is wrong inside the PRTB. I had a property registered 4 years and it wasn't showing up online. When I called them to clear it up they told me they could see it had been registered 4 years previously and couldn't explain why the online data set didn't match whatever data set their internal system had retrieved.

foggy_lad

Check for different variations of the property address like number 29 river road, swords, being input as 29 swords river road. Looking over the list for my own address they use several different variations for houses and apartments in the same estate. This is either down to poor naming of streets by builders or the PRTB use people with poor english to input the data

Santa Cruz

The PRTB register is not that user friendly. The obligation to register a tenancy is the landlords. Absence of registration does not null your rights. You are entitled to the full protection of the law as if you were registered. Howwever failure to register does indicate that the landlord is a bit dodgy. (possible tax issues)

TheDoc

Yeah I've no concerns over my own rights, fully aware of that. And I've no issues with the landlord, nice guy, good relationship on all accounts.

For those who maybe didn't catch it first itme around, I'll be more blunt.

If I did get confirmation of the property not registered, ahead of lets say my lease negotiation next time round, I'd be wondering if I could use this as a tactic to get a reduction.

I know I'm paying over the odds for the area, I'm hoping the government pull the finger and that rent prices calm down before Jan next year, but in the event where through normal negotiations I can't negotiate a reduction, I'd maybe throw this as a hail mary.

So yeah the post above is what I'm getting at.

If not being registered with the PTRB, does that indicate that maybe landlord might be dodging his tax duties etc?

No issue with it personally, but you scratch my back I scratch yours type of thing

Then again the way its going I might end up being lucky if I can keep my rent at €1250 :O

Cuddlesworth

TheDoc wrote: »

If not being registered with the PTRB, does that indicate that maybe landlord might be dodging his tax duties etc?

From looking over cases two years ago, not registering tenants is viewed as a separate issue.

So in your case, you would lodge a dispute over a rent increase with the PRTB. Your rent increase would be looked over logically and fairly to both sides.

You landlord in the meantime would most likely receive fines for non-registration of tenancy. I'm not sure if they always apply the full fine, but I think its around 2k. When their site works, you can see the previous cases and judgements.

The_Morrigan

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah I've no concerns over my own rights, fully aware of that. And I've no issues with the landlord, nice guy, good relationship on all accounts.

For those who maybe didn't catch it first itme around, I'll be more blunt.

If I did get confirmation of the property not registered, ahead of lets say my lease negotiation next time round, I'd be wondering if I could use this as a tactic to get a reduction.

I know I'm paying over the odds for the area, I'm hoping the government pull the finger and that rent prices calm down before Jan next year, but in the event where through normal negotiations I can't negotiate a reduction, I'd maybe throw this as a hail mary.

So yeah the post above is what I'm getting at.

If not being registered with the PTRB, does that indicate that maybe landlord might be dodging his tax duties etc?

No issue with it personally, but you scratch my back I scratch yours type of thing

Then again the way its going I might end up being lucky if I can keep my rent at €1250 :O

Do you realise that what you're saying reads like you are happy to implicate yourself in tax fraud.


If your landlord doesn't appear to be registered via their website, then it could be an administrative glitch with the PRTB, they are notoriously slow about updating their records.

TheDoc

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

From looking over cases two years ago, not registering tenants is viewed as a separate issue.

So in your case, you would lodge a dispute over a rent increase with the PRTB. Your rent increase would be looked over logically and fairly to both sides.

You landlord in the meantime would most likely receive fines for non-registration of tenancy. I'm not sure if they always apply the full fine, but I think its around 2k. When their site works, you can see the previous cases and judgements.

This is all hypothetical stuff at this point. As stated ( and confirmed with the PTRB website) their data is not always up to date, and is horrendously maintained as its simply imported from a form the landlord fills out, so typos and incorrect address get imported in there.

It's just something I was wondering. While I initially didn't think much of the jump i nrents, I find that I'm not able to save any cash each month, so I'm just living month to month which scuppers any plans of actually saving for a mortgage.

The rent did definitly do a jump like mostly everywhere at the start of the year, but I'm just worried this out of its depth government will fail to make any action and the upward trend of rent will continue.

Like I said all hypothetical. good relationship with the landlord, I'm comfortable when it comes to being reasonable and negotiating, and he indicated at the start he wants someone to be there for years, as we indicated we wanted to be sttled for years to come.

So won't be doing any radical burning of someone, just something I was wondering.

TheDoc

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Do you realise that what you're saying reads like you are happy to implicate yourself in tax fraud.


If your landlord doesn't appear to be registered via their website, then it could be an administrative glitch with the PRTB, they are notoriously slow about updating their records.

I agree alright. Look I'm not after stumbling accross this and planning to jump the gun on it.

The landlord is very decent, is really nice and keeps in good contact. I'd really have no reason to get tetchy, I value a good relationship like this, as I'm sure people have read about with my last landlord. For me it pays to be civil and reasonable. It's just a hypotethical wonder that's all.

I'm not overly concerned that anything will happen, obviously subject to the market come January next year, just be obviously interested in getting my rate down.

It was more a question i nrelation to what are the impacts. I'd not happily imply myself in tax fraud, I wouldn't be involved. As a tenant I've no tax obligtation or connection with the revenue in relation to the property. That's the landlords obligation.

But I'm flexible in certain aspects of life. Sorry, but sometimes you just have to be. Again this is all hypotethical, the landlord never came accross to me as someone who would do anything out of order. He was very thorough and proffesional when we were singing up, this is most likely a PTRB database glitch.

But if your asking me, if I brotched a landlord on the subject, and he admitted to doing something to evading a tax, but the net result was me getting lower rent. I probably wouldn't have too much concern. Like I said my stance is it's his responsability. There is no onus on me.

But I think the likelyhood is that this being found out by a tenant is highly unlikely.

anyway like I said it was partial hypothetical question, partial information gathering for my own part on why the PTRB registration was important.

The_Morrigan

I've moved the discussion on the Govt intervention in the private rental market to another thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057232020#

Naux

murphaph wrote: »

It should be like this but something is wrong inside the PRTB. I had a property registered 4 years and it wasn't showing up online. When I called them to clear it up they told me they could see it had been registered 4 years previously and couldn't explain why the online data set didn't match whatever data set their internal system had retrieved.

Surely not.............an incompetent poorly performing Quango!:eek:

If a land lord has not registered a property with the PRTB he is not entitled to offset any of the mortgage interest on that property against his rental tax bill.

OP - maybe the LL has no mortgage on the property so he is not too worried?