Frisian Bull Calves

owen.fitz

Hi, a lad told me that there is some money to be made from buying Frisian bull calves and raring them. Is this true? I'm relatively new to farming and have a good bit of land and revenue to work with. Could anyone shed some light on this and how exactly would I go about it if it is true?

Paddysniper

owen.fitz wrote: »

Hi, a lad told me that there is some money to be made from buying Frisian bull calves and raring them. Is this true? I'm relatively new to farming and have a good bit of land and revenue to work with. Could anyone shed some light on this and how exactly would I go about it if it is true?

Hello.
Last spring we bought some and reared them on maverick. Working out about €100 each for the replacer and crunch to get them to grass.
All bar one were British Friesian which will put weight on better than the Holstein.
I don't think there is any get rich quick scheme with farming.
I know you start off with a low price and you can build up numbers with them but they won't leave a lot either when they go.
I'm not long farming either so there will probably be better opinions than mine on here.

Sam Kade

owen.fitz wrote: »

Hi, a lad told me that there is some money to be made from buying Frisian bull calves and raring them. Is this true? I'm relatively new to farming and have a good bit of land and revenue to work with. Could anyone shed some light on this and how exactly would I go about it if it is true?

That lad was telling you lies, unless you have plenty acres, plenty time and plenty money.

_Brian

owen.fitz wrote: »

Hi, a lad told me that there is some money to be made from buying Frisian bull calves and raring them. Is this true? I'm relatively new to farming and have a good bit of land and revenue to work with. Could anyone shed some light on this and how exactly would I go about it if it is true?

Rearing sucks takes quite a bit of experience, it's by no means an easy entry into farming and definitely not a get ritch scheme.

Paddysniper

_Brian wrote: »

Rearing sucks takes quite a bit of experience, it's by no means an easy entry into farming and definitely not a get ritch scheme.

I agree with that one but you've to get the experience somehow.
All I ever reared where pheasants and I managed to rear the calves, but with valuable advice from a good farmer.
I wouldn't let that put him off though.

I am glad though that I started off with them because it's a good way to get used to handling cattle. They're quiet and small.

willfarmerman

Keep n mind that that you must see them through to finish. Don't buy a soft calf or a poor quality extreme Holstein calf at any money. You won't rich but it's quite enjoyable after you get over initial few Weeks. Bought good few this year. First time had calves in a long time.

Farmer Pudsey

If you are starting rearing calves start with Fresians or FR/JE crosses. The reason is that mistakes are cheaper. If a WH or a AA calf gets sick and dies it will cos it will cost you 500 euro between vet/medicine/knackery and calf. as opposed to 150-170 with a JEX.

TBH at the price of Friesisn type yearlings I would not touch calves at present. You can buy good 300kg fresians 9good ones) for 450 in the yard. If beef picks up these willleave a profit next year. It should only take 18 months to finish.

If you check ICBF most Fr calves you but are at least 50% holstein. On general I see nothing wrong with them If there was 100+ euro between a HO and a FR I but the HO. Some BFr can remaim butty, weight pays.

owen.fitz

Thanks lads, all very useful. So you would better recommend buying yearlings and keeping them for a year and sell them for slaughter than to buy calves?

Farmer Pudsey

owen.fitz wrote: »

Thanks lads, all very useful. So you would better recommend buying yearlings and keeping them for a year and sell them for slaughter than to buy calves?

If you can handle over the winter at present they are better value. You will buy goor fresians 15-18 months 350kgs+ for 1.3to1.5/kg

owen.fitz

is that 1.3/1.5 euro per kg? what would they fetch finished then?

Farmer Pudsey

owen.fitz wrote: »

is that 1.3/1.5 euro per kg? what would they fetch finished then?

Yes that is the price live weight, in general goodish freisians will kill 49-51%, if you achieve 350kgs gain from now to September/October 2015 meaning a 350kg FR will be 700kg LW and will kill 350 kgs. At present over age cattle are back 10-20c from the base and good fresians generally kill O-/O= which is another 20c back off the base. So at present prices such a bullock will come into about 1170-1200 euro.

owen.fitz

Thanks this is actually very helpful. So you would recommend that instead of the calves, i would be best off buying yearlings and keeping them over the winter and selling them next september/october?

willfarmerman

owen.fitz wrote: »

Thanks this is actually very helpful. So you would recommend that instead of the calves, i would be best off buying yearlings and keeping them over the winter and selling them next september/october?

I would say yes that is a good safe dependable system. Without the trials and tribulations of calf rearing.
And I may be contradicting some more knowledgable better farmers here but in my opinion the conformation of the friesian is of paramount importance. Square shoulder and bit of a rump to him if you can find them.

owen.fitz

Thanks, thats good advice.

satstheway

Year old frisian bullocks.
At grass. What are ppls opinions do they need meal while at grass or is it a waste of money.

owen.fitz

a small bit wouldnt do any harm? it would help put on weight ya?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

I would say yes that is a good safe dependable system. Without the trials and tribulations of calf rearing.
And I may be contradicting some more knowledgable better farmers here but in my opinion the conformation of the friesian is of paramount importance. Square shoulder and bit of a rump to him if you can find them.

Price price price....... As a store buyer wspecially with friesians it is all about price. some of those bigger bullocks put on more weight/day( very important if grass is main diet) than the BF type, it is about the ability to get finish on them

satstheway wrote: »

Year old frisian bullocks.
At grass. What are ppls opinions do they need meal while at grass or is it a waste of money.

owen.fitz wrote: »

a small bit wouldnt do any harm? it would help put on weight ya?

No meal for yearlings on grass especially if carrying over the winter, back out to grass as early as possible, start picking out those that are starting to finish. I prefer to feed 2kgs/day over 8-10 weeks rather than 3-4 over 6-7. some ver big bullocks need maybe 12 weeks to get good cover on. If you get good cover of flesh on you will get most up into O-/O=

farm14

satstheway wrote: »

Year old frisian bullocks.
At grass. What are ppls opinions do they need meal while at grass or is it a waste of money.

A waste of money. Only year old. A good British friesan will finish at 24 months of age at a carcass weight of around 320kg or maybe a bit more. The margins are tight enough without starting to give them meal on grass. Still growing. To maximise weight gain set up a few paddocks & keep the stock moving into fresh grass as often as you can. Then 3 months before 24 months give them either silage with meal or else ad lib meal. With friesans they need plenty of meal so maize meal will help to put a good fat cover on them

farm14

owen.fitz wrote: »

Hi, a lad told me that there is some money to be made from buying Frisian bull calves and raring them. Is this true? I'm relatively new to farming and have a good bit of land and revenue to work with. Could anyone shed some light on this and how exactly would I go about it if it is true?

Their was often money made out of friesans. But tbh with you if you were to look around marts for friesans it wouldn't pay you to rear them for the extra length of time you have them. I seen 400kg friesans sold for €600. I seen year old friesans bulls at 300kg before make €350. This goes to show you that if you get into friesans you will have to take them through to finish as their not v saleable in marts. But if you were to buy these you would turn a decent profit margin out of them & you wouldn't have the long wait. If you can at all try & stay away from Holstein Friesan cattle as they take to long to mature as beef (lay down flesh.) They eat too much too. They often will take 30 months to finish or more which is not profitable. British friesan will finish easier at a younger age. You won't get rich with them unless you are finishing large numbers. You could make €200 per head net margin going well

Farmer Pudsey

Everything depends on how long your winter period is. If you can keep it to 120 day I be slow to finish over the winter. It is very hard to come across the so called traditional BF. As I said most I but from the ICBF database are 50% HO. Also lots of Friesians are sold farm to farm or in big lots in marts so you will have a mixed bunch.

The thing about trying to finish over the winter is that you will struggle to average 300kgs/head. Most lads that average above that have them from calves. Very hard to buy them all even weights. ti feed for 120 days on silage and ration will cost 300 euro and on adlib ration for 100 day will cost much the same. Most lads that do this have the FR from calves which will be stronger at 12-18 months than the ones you but.

With Fr's it is all about time. It takes time to finish them. Buy at the right time when cheap and sell at the right time when you will get a price

willfarmerman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Everything depends on how long your winter period is. If you can keep it to 120 day I be slow to finish over the winter. It is very hard to come across the so called traditional BF. As I said most I but from the ICBF database are 50% HO. Also lots of Friesians are sold farm to farm or in big lots in marts so you will have a mixed bunch.

The thing about trying to finish over the winter is that you will struggle to average 300kgs/head. Most lads that average above that have them from calves. Very hard to buy them all even weights. ti feed for 120 days on silage and ration will cost 300 euro and on adlib ration for 100 day will cost much the same. Most lads that do this have the FR from calves which will be stronger at 12-18 months than the ones you but.

With Fr's it is all about time. It takes time to finish them. Buy at the right time when cheap and sell at the right time when you will get a price

The proper British friesian is scarce now but I don't concern myself with what's on the card. Make sure they have some bit of shape to them. The difference in money at 350 kilos is small... A hundred squid at very most. Price isn't every thing.. VALUE is everything.


You are down in the bargain basement territory with these type of cattle. Competition is scarce if you time it well as Pudsey says. But it am adamant that the really plain friesian are better avoided at those weights. I would buy them at 2 year old sometimes because they are alwAys the cattle that fall hardest in bad weather or bad trade. You don't need to buy them small.

willfarmerman

farm14 wrote: »

Their was often money made out of friesans. But tbh with you if you were to look around marts for friesans it wouldn't pay you to rear them for the extra length of time you have them. I seen 400kg friesans sold for €600. I seen year old friesans bulls at 300kg before make €350. This goes to show you that if you get into friesans you will have to take them through to finish as their not v saleable in marts. But if you were to buy these you would turn a decent profit margin out of them & you wouldn't have the long wait. If you can at all try & stay away from Holstein Friesan cattle as they take to long to mature as beef (lay down flesh.) They eat too much too. They often will take 30 months to finish or more which is not profitable. British friesan will finish easier at a younger age. You won't get rich with them unless you are finishing large numbers. You could make €200 per head net margin going well

That's a great post there and would be bang on the money in my experience anyway.

Deepsouthwest

I remember finishing bullocks here about 10 yrs ago in a slatted house, had continentals on one side and fresians on the other, couldn't get over how much more the friseans would eat, and took 4/5 wks longer to finish as well

willfarmerman

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I remember finishing bullocks here about 10 yrs ago in a slatted house, had continentals on one side and fresians on the other, couldn't get over how much more the friseans would eat, and took 4/5 wks longer to finish as well

That would be my experience too. You have to put that into the equation when buying,

owen.fitz

Taking all this into account, would it still be recommended to go with the friesans rather than a more expensive breed as if anything goes wrong i would have less money tied up as it is my first time? I wouldnt mind losing on the profit as i feel that the experience would be worth more than €100/€150?

farm14

owen.fitz wrote: »

Taking all this into account, would it still be recommended to go with the friesans rather than a more expensive breed as if anything goes wrong i would have less money tied up as it is my first time? I wouldnt mind losing on the profit as i feel that the experience would be worth more than €100/€150?

Yes if you could get BRITISH friesan I would advise you to buy. Something that has shape. I'd strongly advise to not buy holsteins they are very long in the legs. If I were you I wouldn't buy calves. It's a terrible long wait for money. Alright buying calves if you have a system going with a load of finished cattle to sell every year. But in your case remember you will be looking at calves for over 20 months. Calf to beef suits someone on a large scale who is turning over big numbers imo. Not saying you won't make money, you would but cashflow is very important imo

owen.fitz

Thanks, I will go about looking for some. Do any of ye have experience in buying from donedeal? would it be advised?

Nekarsulm

Always check the sellers "other ads" as this will sometimes show multiple ads, dating back months. Lots of Dealers advertise there. Anyway, if you go to a lads yard to look at them, and they don't all have the same numeric identifier on their tags, then he has gathered them up all over the place.