Feeling sad

Grindley

Sorry for revisiting this topic but here goes. I've just been sitting out my garden contemplating my broad beans, potatoes, courgettes, various beans, tomatoes, spring onions, broccili, cauliflowers etc. I have (as I have over several years) put 100's of (mostly enjoyable) hours growing them from seed and trying to protect them from slugs etc. Now I am watching them mature. I believe I am the only one of my neighbours in a surburban Dublin garden that likes vegetable gardening. I was sitting there thinking what I will grow next year - in the face of water charges. It will be a very diminished garden. It's even more annoying considering the amount of water that is lost through (unrepaired) leaks etc. Me and the bees will be......plainer? than hitherto. The majority of vegetables that I produce when you factor in fertiliser, compost and plant food etc. already cost much more than those (mass produced and) sold in the shops - I can't justify paying for watering them as well. G

dxhound2005

Grindley wrote: »

Sorry for revisiting this topic but here goes. I've just been sitting out my garden contemplating my broad beans, potatoes, courgettes, various beans, tomatoes, spring onions, broccili, cauliflowers etc. I have (as I have over several years) put 100's of (mostly enjoyable) hours growing them from seed and trying to protect them from slugs etc. Now I am watching them mature. I believe I am the only one of my neighbours in a surburban Dublin garden that likes vegetable gardening. I was sitting there thinking what I will grow next year - in the face of water charges. It will be a very diminished garden. It's even more annoying considering the amount of water that is lost through (unrepaired) leaks etc. Me and the bees will be......plainer? than hitherto. The majority of vegetables that I produce when you factor in fertiliser, compost and plant food etc. already cost much more than those (mass produced and) sold in the shops - I can't justify paying for watering them as well. G

You are going to be paying water charges whether you use any in the garden or not. So far this year I have found very little need for watering given the amount of rainfall. Next year could be a washout. I have a 40 litre barrell which collects rainwater and so far I have never even half emptied it. You should already be collecting rainwater for your garden.

If you are like me you have to run the hot tap for a while to get the hot water. I intend to collect that water in some sort of container when the charges come in and find some use for it. My electricity charges are probably 3 or 4 times what my water charges will be. Same for gas. I think if I really had to I could save the amount I will have to pay for water on those two by being more careful with usage. Also I try to make a point of not throwing away food but on average one third of all food bought in this country is thrown away costing the average household about €700.

So if I were you I would continue doing what you want in the garden and maybe the weather will be favourable or if not you could save money on those other household activities.

Addle

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I have a 40 litre barrell which collects rainwater and so far I have never even half emptied it. You should already be collecting rainwater for your garden.

Like all our grandparents used to - pre water charges!
It's just good sense.

vinnie13

may start thinkig of haresting rain water

lottpaul

I have a few used molasses tanks - 500l each - that are fed directly from the downpipes. They cost about €60 each and I've plenty of water - lots of carrying buckets and cans though

I know its more difficult in an urban area but my sister lives in a town and uses a few old wheelie bins that she bought/"borrowed" over the years. She has plenty of water, again from the downpipes, but the bins are deep and would need to be kept safely closed if there were small children around.

redser7

Been thinking the same thing. Harvesting is fine but sometimes you just want to hook up the hose and use the good pressure.
I wonder what sort of allowance we will get and will it be annual or per month? I mean is there any chance we can use less than the allowance in some months and accrue it for using during the summer months?
Was also thinking, how much will it be per litre? For the pleasure my garden gives, it might be worth just using the tap. I'm Not a big pub goer anymore myself. Whereas some friends wouldn't think twice about spending 50 quid in a night. Surely that would buy a lot of water and pleasure.

yellowlabrador

Another important change you could make is mulching. I have a no dig patch that gets topped up with layers to be composted. I know that nitrogen can get lost, but even so, the ground under neath the mulch is usually wet in my garden.
Even putting a layer of cardboard helps. Luckily we have very few droughts and it's mainly plants in pots that really need constant watering. Improve your soil and get the plants to develop a good rootsystem.

dxhound2005

redser7 wrote: »

Been thinking the same thing. Harvesting is fine but sometimes you just want to hook up the hose and use the good pressure.
I wonder what sort of allowance we will get and will it be annual or per month? I mean is there any chance we can use less than the allowance in some months and accrue it for using during the summer months?
Was also thinking, how much will it be per litre? For the pleasure my garden gives, it might be worth just using the tap. I'm Not a big pub goer anymore myself. Whereas some friends wouldn't think twice about spending 50 quid in a night. Surely that would buy a lot of water and pleasure.

150 litres used every day by every man woman and child in the country. On average of course. That's about 55,000 litres a year. The amount used by gardeners is not even factored into the calculations which measure showers, toilet flushing, cooking, laundry, car washing etc.

So I doubt someone could save very much by stopping or curtailing gardening. A lot will depend on how the charges are calculated.

redser7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

150 litres used every day by every man woman and child in the country. On average of course. That's about 55,000 litres a year. The amount used by gardeners is not even factored into the calculations which measure showers, toilet flushing, cooking, laundry, car washing etc.

So I doubt someone could save very much by stopping or curtailing gardening. A lot will depend on how the charges are calculated.

Yes, I guess we'll find out soon enough. We'll be paying in October!

shane 007

redser7 wrote: »

Been thinking the same thing. Harvesting is fine but sometimes you just want to hook up the hose and use the good pressure.
I wonder what sort of allowance we will get and will it be annual or per month? I mean is there any chance we can use less than the allowance in some months and accrue it for using during the summer months?
Was also thinking, how much will it be per litre? For the pleasure my garden gives, it might be worth just using the tap. I'm Not a big pub goer anymore myself. Whereas some friends wouldn't think twice about spending 50 quid in a night. Surely that would buy a lot of water and pleasure.

Kilkenny CoCo published this last year for domestic.
What is also in the mix is similar to commercial, waste water charges. It is more expensive to process waste water than potable water so you can see what is planned for the future....

redser7

Well if it is 1 euro per 1000 litres or thereabouts I wont have any problem using the tap when needed.

shane 007

redser7 wrote: »

Well if it is 1 euro per 1000 litres or thereabouts I wont have any problem using the tap when needed.

The charge for 1,000 litres supplied would be just under €3 as they assume what goes in comes out via the drain.
There is no meter on waste water.
That's how they do it non-domestic apart from certain industries such as pubs, etc as they would have little coming in but a lot more going out via toilets, etc.

A bit of a bummer for the garden as you are being charged for waste water treatment when it is not discharged into the treatment system but into your garden.

bumblebee2

The water charges will go up through the roof in 3 years time.Like the property tax theres a 3 year cap on the price of water.Then government and central energy regulator have free reign to ramp up the price of water.Thats exactly what will happen.Prices never come down,but allways go up.

shane 007

bumblebee2 wrote: »

The water charges will go up through the roof in 3 years time.Like the property tax theres a 3 year cap on the price of water.Then government and central energy regulator have free reign to ramp up the price of water.Thats exactly what will happen.Prices never come down,but allways go up.

Of course they will. They have already stated that the cost of delivery is approx €580 per household & that is average. They have also stated that they wish to have this cost 100% paid for by the end user.

Therefore, if this cost is average, them take out allowances, freebies, non-payers, etc. I reckon the person paying will eventually be paying closer to €800pa. To achieve this they will add some benefit such as combine it with other services such as bins, property tax, etc. & charge an annual fee of about €1,500.
It's what they did in the UK years ago.

Souness

lottpaul wrote: »

I have a few used molasses tanks - 500l each - that are fed directly from the downpipes. They cost about €60 each and I've plenty of water - lots of carrying buckets and cans though

Would like to get a few of these tanks myself, where abouts did you buy them? With the impending water charges and plans for a pond the large volume capacity would be great.Thanks

redser7

You can get 1000 lt IBCs on adverts.ie and donedeal.

missmyler

Would It be safe to turn an unused (plastic) oil tank into a water harvester?

redser7

No, it would have to be food grade and have been used for food stuffs.

shane 007

The other issue with IBC's is that they are clear/white coloured. This will encourage a lot of bacterial growth/algae from sunlight.
You can get black ones which are much more suitable but hard to find or paint/wrap normal ones with black paint or black silage wrap.
Wouldn't look the prettiest though.

redser7

shane 007 wrote: »

The other issue with IBC's is that they are clear/white coloured. This will encourage a lot of bacterial growth/algae from sunlight.
You can get black ones which are much more suitable but hard to find or paint/wrap normal ones with black paint or black silage wrap.
Wouldn't look the prettiest though.

I don't think thats always a problem. Mine has been full for three years and not a sign of any algae. And I see plenty others in use tat are fine. I guess they must be UV treated plastic?

pwurple

IBc' are not always clear either. Mine are stainless steel.

Collect rainwater OP. Plants don't need the treatment our drinking water gets anyway. Aldi/lidl sell rainwater harvesters as well, with connectors to your downpipes. I put a gutter on a garden shed and get enough water for my veg garden into an old bin on concrete blocks. Attach a little tap at the bottom and secure the top. Done.

j@utis

yellowlabrador wrote: »

Another important change you could make is mulching. I have a no dig patch that gets topped up with layers to be composted. I know that nitrogen can get lost, but even so, the ground under neath the mulch is usually wet in my garden.
Even putting a layer of cardboard helps. Luckily we have very few droughts and it's mainly plants in pots that really need constant watering. Improve your soil and get the plants to develop a good rootsystem.

What about slugs? From what I've read in Klaus Leitenberger's book "Vegetables For The Irish Garden" mulching is a big no no in irish gardens because of those little beasts :mad: I only mulch around my tomatoes in the greenhouse because slugs don't touch tomatoes plants.
Rain water is great for watering. I have a water butt set-up to collect rain water from the roof of the greenhouse and it's hasn't ran out so far this year (wet, cool spring). Thinking about putting a gutter on the garden shed too.

yellowlabrador

I put a layer of sharp sand and crushed shells around my beds, that seems to help. I also find that plants past the seedling stage can build up a bit of resistance to slugs. My grape vines get the big garden snails, and they do no harm.

shane 007

redser7 wrote: »

I don't think thats always a problem. Mine has been full for three years and not a sign of any algae. And I see plenty others in use tat are fine. I guess they must be UV treated plastic?

True or they could be located out of direct sunlight.

j@utis

I thought that slugs would live under the mulch and come out at night to munch on my seedlings. I see their slimy marks left around my tomato plants and they seem to come from under the mulch. I really like the idea of mulching, I can't stand the look of the bare soil in my raised bed. maybe I should try mulching it too... what do you use for mulch, yellowlabrador? grass cuttings?

yellowlabrador

grass clippings, my own compost, I also lay newspaper and cardboard between the rows before planting. My main damage comes from caterpillars.I also do companion planting and put veggies between the flowers.

bumblebee2

I collect rainwater into a very large precast concrete underground tank.I had the system supplied around 2 months ago by Molloy Precast.I use alot of water in my house so this was and is the way forward for my circumstances,my lifestyle and future water charges.Im thinking of post 2017 when water rate price cap is lifted and central energy regulator ups and ups the price of water every year or so.
You have to be carefull when buying used IBCs off of Donedeal or Adverts,as some people are selling IBCs that were used for holding fuel or chemicals and claiming that they were only ever used for holding water.So please be carefull when you are buying a used IBC,you could without realising it be poluting and contaminating your garden and soil with fuel and chemical residues from these tanks.

Gautama

Grindley wrote: »

I can't justify paying for watering them as well. G

You, and all tax payers, have being paying for water all the time. The only difference is now you will be paying for it directly, based on consumption rather that indirectly via taxes.
Ireland has been a backward country for a long time. If we are ever to be a successful, modern economy, we are going to have to pay for our usage of resources such as water.
If you don't like it, well, talk to Joe. 1850 715 815.

Seriously though, I can't believe people spend so much for Ballygowan and other bottled water, but when it comes to water delivered to the house, it's a national whinge-athon.

magicbastarder

redser7 wrote: »

No, it would have to be food grade and have been used for food stuffs.

even just for use in the garden?

there's no such thing as a manual pump you could use to pump water from a water butt into a hose, is there?
we have not hooked up a water butt yet (well, we did in the old house), but in the new place, the downpipes are metal so quite a bit more difficult to hook the diverter into.

Gosub

Gautama wrote: »

You, and all tax payers, have being paying for water all the time. The only difference is now you will be paying for it directly, based on consumption rather that as well as indirectly via taxes.
Ireland has been a backward country for a long time. If we are ever to be a successful, modern economy, we are going to have to pay for our usage of resources such as water.
If you don't like it, well, talk to Joe. 1850 715 815.

Seriously though, I can't believe people spend so much for Ballygowan and other bottled water, but when it comes to water delivered to the house, it's a national whinge-athon.

FYP.

redser7

magicbastarder wrote: »

even just for use in the garden?

there's no such thing as a manual pump you could use to pump water from a water butt into a hose, is there?
we have not hooked up a water butt yet (well, we did in the old house), but in the new place, the downpipes are metal so quite a bit more difficult to hook the diverter into.

I wouldn't want to eat anything that has maybe taken up toxic substances through water. And even if it was only for ornamental stuff, there's no guarantee it wouldn't be bad for the soil, plants and/or find it's way into ground water.