S&S Opt Out Salary Deduction

Pang

Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet. The S&S Opt Out salary deduction is due to start from June 26th.

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/ss-opt-out-salary-deduction-to-begin//back_to/asti-home/

seavill

So anyone opted out since jan didn't get any pay deducted while the rest of us had to do s&s since then for nothing?

TheDriver

In etb, opt out pay deductions started in march

Red Waterlily

TheDriver wrote: »

In etb, opt out pay deductions started in march

And the amount deducted gross per fortnight 68 euro..will be doubled until january to make up for the delay. Ouch.

TheDriver

seavill wrote: »

So anyone opted out since jan didn't get any pay deducted while the rest of us had to do s&s since then for nothing?

they will, its backdated til last Jan.

gaeilgebeo

seavill wrote: »

So anyone opted out since jan didn't get any pay deducted while the rest of us had to do s&s since then for nothing?

I did (more often than not)3 periods per week of substitution and a lunch time supervision from September right up until the end of January! For free. I will never get paid for this.
My deduction was taken out very promptly too.

seavill

As we all did, and did not get paid either I don't get your point

gaeilgebeo

seavill wrote: »

As we all did, and did not get paid either I don't get your point

You questioned a few posts back that those who opted out weren't "getting pay deducted" while the rest of you were doing it for free.

My point is that a lot of people who opted out did months of work for free and are now also being fined €1500+++ per year to opt out.

seavill

anyone who opted to get out of it can't really complain about getting docked that was the choice you made. I'm not saying it's right not for one min but a decision was made and that was what you signed up for.


I am in no way complaining, if it comes across that way, nor do I regret my decision to opt out for one second. I put a lot of thought and research into my decision.
I can let go of the fact that I worked them months for free no problem.
Especially now that we're on holidays.

gaeilgebeo

anyone who opted to get out of it can't really complain about getting docked that was the choice you made. I'm not saying it's right not for one min but a decision was made and that was what you signed up for.


I am in no way complaining, if it comes across that way, nor do I regret my decision to opt out for one second. I put a lot of thought and research into my decision.
I can let go of the fact that I worked them months for free no problem.
Especially now that we're on holidays.

gaeilgebeo

Seavill, I've accidentally deleted a post while quoting you. Apologies. I'll try get it back or maybe another mod can tell me how?

seavill

No bother was just explaining myself a bit better and acknowledging that I hadn't read the detail before commenting

acequion

It's absolutely disgraceful and I,for one,will always resent it! Does anyone know if there will be any option to repay the backdated 6 months in a lump sum? My salary is pathetic enough without a double whammy of this "fine" [as someone aptly termed it] until January.

Peter Flynt

TheDriver wrote: »

they will, its backdated til last Jan.

That'll be a pay cut of around 800 quid. . . That's a disgrace.

Why didn't they implement before June 26.

Is this Quinn's parting gift to teachers?

babybaby2014

How much per week I wonder? Net?

Peter Flynt

Peter Flynt wrote: »

That'll be a pay cut of around 800 quid. . . That's a disgrace.

Why didn't they implement before June 26.

Is this Quinn's parting gift to teachers?

Actually reading that link they're taking 136 euros every fortnight of those who didn't sign up until the end of the year.

How useless are the ASTI?

babybaby2014

Can you explain that again Peter? Sorry....

Peter Flynt

babybaby2014 wrote: »

Can you explain that again Peter? Sorry....

The link is clear. They pay cut is 1769 or 68 per pay check per fortnight

As these deductions are now being backdated to Jan 1 . . . they're doubling the 68 quid (to 136) in each pay check from now until the end of 2014.

After that it will be a deduction of 68 per pay check

MacGyver007

babybaby2014 wrote: »

How much per week I wonder? Net?

Seeing as, between taxes and levies, the €1769 gross payment translated into between about €650-€670 net, I would estimate that the new "lunchtime levy" (as I've heard it being called) of €136 would amount to a fortnightly deduction of €50-€70 net and then half that from January onwards.

teacherhead

This is not news.... It's ld. It has been know about for months.

The cut has applied to all teachers. The extra cut applied to those who chose it. It is not a nice choice but it was a choice.

I would hope that there would be some leeway on the lifelong nature if the opt out that may allow people back in if they wished, although I.understand from.posted here that s&s can be difficult in some schools.

The scare mongering about it that went on here prior to the hra was way off the scale. I have yet to hear of anyone who did more than the required amount of time per week or indeed in the year.

Peter Flynt

teacherhead wrote: »

The scare mongering about it that went on here prior to the hra was way off the scale. I have yet to hear of anyone who did more than the required amount of time per week or indeed in the year.

The true thoughts of management . . . always willing to bend over backwards for the DES.

I have a problem doing 1 minute of S&S.

teacherhead

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The true thoughts of management . . . always willing to bend over backwards for the DES.

I have a problem doing 1 minute of S&S.

Where am I bending over backwards for the des?

Facts are:

HRA was accepted whether we like it or not.
The opt out is optional for those who qualify.
There is a financial penalty involved.

We are all in the same boat with the s\s scheme. I know that people resent the hours, I could do with the allowance myself and I could do with the time if I'm not getting paid.

The point I'm making is that there were all sorts of horror stories being predicted when hra was being voted on and afterwards yet there has been little posted on how it's is in fact being implemented.

Are teachers doing the 3 hours per week? Are they doing more than the total hours?

There are issues with the hra but we have to live with it for now. If it is being abused then this shouldn't be tolerated but I haven't heard of this. Has anyone else?

Peter Flynt

teacherhead wrote: »

Where am I bending over backwards for the des?

Facts are:

HRA was accepted whether we like it or not.
The opt out is optional for those who qualify.
There is a financial penalty involved.

We are all in the same boat with the s\s scheme. I know that people resent the hours, I could do with the allowance myself and I could do with the time if I'm not getting paid.

The point I'm making is that there were all sorts of horror stories being predicted when hra was being voted on and afterwards yet there has been little posted on how it's is in fact being implemented.

Are teachers doing the 3 hours per week? Are they doing more than the total hours?

There are issues with the hra but we have to live with it for now. If it is being abused then this shouldn't be tolerated but I haven't heard of this. Has anyone else?

We won't know until a full academic year is complete (Aug-May) the full extent of the S&S. As we know no schools are identical so what goes on in one school doesn't occur in another.

Either way. . One thing is certain - We'll all be continuing to give of the very little time there is available outside the classroom for free.

I don't like managers coming on here with . . . "Ah sure it's not that bad or as bad as some were implying".

They'll be saying the same when we're marking and supervising exams under this new spoof Junior Cert - the JCSA

The HRA was not accepted. It was rejected.

A third vote was run in an atmosphere of threats and intimidation.

teacherhead

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I don't like managers coming on here with . . . "Ah sure it's not that bad or as bad as some were implying".

They'll be saying the same when we're marking and supervising exams under this new spoof Junior Cert - the JCSA

The HRA was not accepted. It was rejected.

A third vote was run in an atmosphere of threats and intimidation.

not being funny but in entitled to post whatever i like here. Its a discussion forum after all. Opinions don't have to be identical to be respected.

whether you like it or not there has been no evidence produced, here or anywhere either anecdotal or otherwise, to shoe that hra is as bad as was being predicted.

i have my own views on the jcsa which i am entitled to have. These are probably fairly close to your own.

if you eased up on the management bashing and could find a fault with my opinions rather than my job title it would be easier to have a discussion. I have yet to disagree with someone i haven't learned something from when the issue was discussed.

your entrenchment in opposition to management is less than refreshing.

seavill

The new s&s was interesting in our place. People became very aware of what everyone else was doing...or not as was the case at times.

The only week from jan-June I didn't get caught at all was the last 2 weeks of the year. I was caught. 3 times within the week approx 6 times. It made it a very tiring week tbh and I did turn to really really resenting the whole new set up. All other weeks I was only caught 1-2 times.

Based on my experience I don't think management should be on the list the same as everyone else. Their jobs are too different. To me they need to be on call most of the time.
I did think my P pulled a bit of a fast one by alloying one slot sane as me first class in the morning. Now every morning he or both the P and Dp always were out catching the latecomers until 9.10 or dealing with this that or the other. He never did one 9am cover as a result.
However we had 2 weeks where everything happened orals tours trips matches and I know the P and Dp covered 10-15 classes each. I think this is a better option than the P being timetabled for slots that in reality they can't take. I don't think they should at all when P or Dp but that's just my opinion

Moody_mona

Seavill, I'd agree, but like you said there'll always be people watching to see if P and DP did the same as everyone. I know my DP does way way more than the allocation.

DP also came up to me mid April to say I couldn't be caught for any more classes, that I'd done my full amount. I had a dip student for five classes a week this year so being called more than twice a week for S&S didn't seem that bad; it's gonna hit me like a ton of bricks in September.

Pwpane

Moody_mona wrote: »

Seavill, I'd agree, but like you said there'll always be people watching to see if P and DP did the same as everyone. I know my DP does way way more than the allocation.

DP also came up to me mid April to say I couldn't be caught for any more classes, that I'd done my full amount. I had a dip student for five classes a week this year so being called more than twice a week for S&S didn't seem that bad; it's gonna hit me like a ton of bricks in September.

Neither our P nor DP were on the list, and I've never known either of them to supervise a class.

Moody_mona

Neither of ours are on the substitution list, they are on supervision. Like I said though, I've seen them supervise a lot, even if it isn't at the same specified period every week like the rest of us.

Peter Flynt

teacherhead wrote: »

not being funny but in entitled to post whatever i like here. Its a discussion forum after all. Opinions don't have to be identical to be respected.

whether you like it or not there has been no evidence produced, here or anywhere either anecdotal or otherwise, to shoe that hra is as bad as was being predicted.

i have my own views on the jcsa which i am entitled to have. These are probably fairly close to your own.

if you eased up on the management bashing and could find a fault with my opinions rather than my job title it would be easier to have a discussion. I have yet to disagree with someone i haven't learned something from when the issue was discussed.

your entrenchment in opposition to management is less than refreshing.

You're awful sensitive little souls you management. .

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However the terms and conditions of teaching are slowly being eroded away to the point that the profession will not be worth entering in a few years time.

Stating "Ah sure it's not that bad" is not the point. We are not teaching and we are babysitting for no payment - you wouldn't ask a 14 year old to do that with no payment.

Next up - More Unpaid work with regard to supervising and marking our own students under the JCSA. . . .Ah sure that won't be all bad.

This drip effect of constantly adding to the workload is damaging the profession. We, the teachers, don't need managers making excuses.

acequion

teacherhead, we've all been hanging around this forum for quite some time now and I think it is pretty obvious that in our different ways,we all mean well. While you might find my thanking all Peter's posts annoying and while I also don't want to get caught up in yer argument over management,I am,however completely in agreement with his sentiments.

The problem is that every outrageous imposition gets sucked up and watered down by polite,compliant teachers and managers with the "get on with it" mentality, and as far as the public is concerned,nothing is ever enough.Nobody likes to be be seen as whingy and negative, yet all the while our pockets are picked to bits and our working conditions ripped to shreds by our opportunistic employer who knows the sheep he's dealing with.

Peter is right. The HRA was rejected until eventually a [not very large] majority caved in in the face of unprecedented intimidation. While people have to do what they have to do,nobody should stop being angry and if they had any balls they'd be vocally angry. But they're not. They're getting on with it and their depleted incomes in an attitude of fatalism and that's why you're not hearing much about how hard the extra S&S is.In my school I can tell you for a fact that many people are at breaking point. They don't bother going to union meetings and they don't open their mouths at staff meetings because they see no point. And now those of us who chose not to do it are to lie the loss of a further 35-40 euro a week for the rest of the year because the DES couldn't even get their act together to collect it sooner.And the ASTI think this is ok!!

If it wasn't so serious,it would be a huge joke. A joke on muppets like us!!

judeboy101

Has deduction started ? My wife is teacher who opted out but her paycheck still the same no sign of deduction in right hand column of pay slip.

Icsics

Started 10th June payslip, it's on the left -€125.92

judeboy101

ah ok just checked no extra deductions on rhs of payslip. she said she did sign up, only one in the school who opted out. should she keep quiet or what? lol