is zero grazing a serious option

save_me_some

while obviously it involves a sizeable spend , you would think that in cases where a man is tight for land , it would be more efficent to keep cows in all the time and simply haul in grass to them , i realise its more laborious but their would be much less feed wasted through poaching and cows would be on a more consistent diet

i ask because i have a small amount of land and im thinking of getting into dairying next year , keeping the cows in all the time seems to be the only way i can maximise what land i have

einn32

save_me_some wrote: »

while obviously it involves a sizeable spend , you would think that in cases where a man is tight for land , it would be more efficent to keep cows in all the time and simply haul in grass to them , i realise its more laborious but their would be much less feed wasted through poaching and cows would be on a more consistent diet

i ask because i have a small amount of land and im thinking of getting into dairying next year , keeping the cows in all the time seems to be the only way i can maximise what land i have

You would need serious facilities for it. Always seemed like a lot of work to me. I mean milk the cows, bring in grass, out with slurry on a frequent basis. Would you not be better concentrating on improving grass management, reseeding and drainage if required?

save_me_some

einn32 wrote: »

You would need serious facilities for it. Always seemed like a lot of work to me. I mean milk the cows, bring in grass, out with slurry on a frequent basis. Would you not be better concentrating on improving grass management, reseeding and drainage if required?

i have all that , i just think its a more efficent use of an acre of land

whelan2

save_me_some wrote: »

i have all that , i just think its a more efficent use of an acre of land

lad that buy calves off me has started buying in south Armagh too, he said no cows are out at all, all zero grazing.

C0N0R

Personally if I was going to go down that road id strike up a good relationship with a local contractor and feed silage all year round. Then you have perfect consistency in the diet and also saves you from pricking about with machinery everyday.

save_me_some

C0N0R wrote: »

Personally if I was going to go down that road id strike up a good relationship with a local contractor and feed silage all year round. Then you have perfect consistency in the diet and also saves you from pricking about with machinery everyday.

thats even more work and more expense

C0N0R

save_me_some wrote: »

thats even more work and more expense

How so? If someone is considering an indoor system I assume it would be with high yielding cows? And high yielding cows love consistency in the diet, there is no way you can get this from zero grazing. Ok there is investment involved id building a silage slab but if you want to go zero grazing you still need silage for winter, and you have to buy the zero grazer and possibly a tractor to run it. Then there are the fuel costs and maintenence costs associated with the machine and the time to. Blocking in silage to cows would be alot less hardship in my eyes.

save_me_some

C0N0R wrote: »

How so? If someone is considering an indoor system I assume it would be with high yielding cows? And high yielding cows love consistency in the diet, there is no way you can get this from zero grazing. Ok there is investment involved id building a silage slab but if you want to go zero grazing you still need silage for winter, and you have to buy the zero grazer and possibly a tractor to run it. Then there are the fuel costs and maintenence costs associated with the machine and the time to. Blocking in silage to cows would be alot less hardship in my eyes.

1. silage requires plastic covering

2. grass is almost universally accepted as being superior to silage , zero grazing still involves feeding grass

C0N0R

save_me_some wrote: »

1. silage requires plastic covering

2. grass is almost universally accepted as being superior to silage , zero grazing still involves feeding grass

Zero grazing requires capital investment! Yea I accept that silage isnt as good a quality as grass but if you get a sustained week of crap weather what quality grass will you be bringing in and what damage done to fields?

save_me_some

C0N0R wrote: »

Zero grazing requires capital investment! Yea I accept that silage isnt as good a quality as grass but if you get a sustained week of crap weather what quality grass will you be bringing in and what damage done to fields?

cows do damage to fields in wet weather by continuously walking while its raining heavy , a tractor and machine will do much less damage

the cost of plastic for extra bales combined with inferior quality feed would comprehensively for me tip the scales in favour of zero grazing, thats before you consider the extra time spent stripping silage pits or bales , zero grazing IMO would mean having to save less silage ( for winter ) as you would be cutting grass both earlier and later in the year than you would conceivably be able with conventional grazing , my land is 300 feet above sea level , has very little shelter and while good grass growing land is in a part of the country with high rainfall , im also unlikely to have access to land close by anytime in the future , im currently suckling but like nearly all suckler farmer , not making a schilling

moy83

This is an interesting question for lads wanting to milk on small blocks of land , but I dont know if id go for zero grazing . It adds a nice extra workload and diesel bill .
Would a diet feeder , straw , silage and nuts work out cheaper and easier while making the best of the grazing you have ?

C0N0R

save_me_some wrote: »

cows do damage to fields in wet weather by continuously walking while its raining heavy , a tractor and machine will do much less damage

the cost of plastic for extra bales combined with inferior quality feed would comprehensively for me vote in favour of zero grazing, thats before you consider the extra time spent stripping silage pits or bales , zero grazing IMO would mean having to save less silage ( for winter ) as you would be cutting grass both earlier and later in the year than you would conceivably be able with conventional grazing , my land has very little shelter and while good grass growing land is in a part of the country with high rainfall , im also unlikely to have access to land close by anytime in the future , im currently suckling but like nearly all suckler farmer , not making a schilling

That depends where abouts in the country and how dry your land is. I spent a week working with a contractor and there were quite a few places we were taking half loads to minimize ground damage.

If I was going down that road I would be using pit silage not bales and if your setup properly there isnt a massive amount of time involved in stripping pits. I would be in favour of excellant quality silage as it offers a good quality feed that will be suplemented anyway with a suitable ration and there will not be any change in quality from day to day. If land will carry a zero grazer it will carry equipment to cut silage so your grass harvesting period is still potentially the same.

But each to their own, I know if I was to go indoors that would be the way I would look at operating but you would have to sit down with a calculator and do accurate figures to really see what is best.

save_me_some

moy83 wrote: »

This is an interesting question for lads wanting to milk on small blocks of land , but I dont know if id go for zero grazing . It adds a nice extra workload and diesel bill .
Would a diet feeder , straw , silage and nuts work out cheaper and easier while making the best of the grazing you have ?

a diet feeder is as expensive as a zero grazer

save_me_some

C0N0R wrote: »

That depends where abouts in the country and how dry your land is. I spent a week working with a contractor and there were quite a few places we were taking half loads to minimize ground damage.

If I was going down that road I would be using pit silage not bales and if your setup properly there isnt a massive amount of time involved in stripping pits. I would be in favour of excellant quality silage as it offers a good quality feed that will be suplemented anyway with a suitable ration and there will not be any change in quality from day to day. If land will carry a zero grazer it will carry equipment to cut silage so your grass harvesting period is still potentially the same.

But each to their own, I know if I was to go indoors that would be the way I would look at operating but you would have to sit down with a calculator and do accurate figures to really see what is best.

still dont see how saving a shedload of pit silage in an all indoor system is either cheaper or more lucrative than zero grazing , like i said silage is hardly ever as good of feed as grass

i stress that i believe that traditional grazing is unbeatable if land base isnt an issue

C0N0R

save_me_some wrote: »

a diet feeder is as expensive as a zero grazer

True I wouldnt be a fan of them, but a diet feeder can be used 12 months of the year and is some situations will be in place already. Wouldnt be my way of doing it though.

C0N0R

save_me_some wrote: »

still dont see how saving a shedload of pit silage in an all indoor system is either cheaper or more lucrative than zero grazing , like i said silage is hardly ever as good of feed as grass

Im willing to accept that silage mightnt be as good as grass but its consistent quality. Zero grazed grass will never be consistent and with high yielding cows consistency is crucial. Zero grazed grass on a beautiful summers day at optimum cover is smashing stuff but how many days of the summer are beautiful.

moy83

save_me_some wrote: »

a diet feeder is as expensive as a zero grazer

Probably right but it would save time over the zero grazer , and if its a small block of land will you have enough grass close by to feed the size of a herd you want ?
I'm not saying your plan is wrong at all , I'm just wondering are there other cheaper easier options that might suit aswell . It might be possible to buy in silage or maize or some other forage crop as cheaply as making it yourself and be able to rear your heifers on the land away from the milking block

save_me_some

moy83 wrote: »

Probably right but it would save time over the zero grazer , and if its a small block of land will you have enough grass close by to feed the size of a herd you want ?
I'm not saying your plan is wrong at all , I'm just wondering are there other cheaper easier options that might suit aswell . It might be possible to buy in silage or maize or some other forage crop as cheaply as making it yourself and be able to rear your heifers on the land away from the milking block

one thing diet feeders never do is save time

moy83

save_me_some wrote: »

one thing diet feeders never do is save time

Again you could be right , I dont have one .

Deepsouthwest

I'd be v slow to set up a dairy enterprise based on zero grazing grass, unless u thinking of a massive scale operation, and even then I'd be slow, a bad milk price would screw u

keep going

Was involved in a discussion once with larence shalloo about stocking rate on milking blocks and his answer was whatever grass your farm can grow plus 300 kilos a cows .going beyond that lowered margin and incresed risk and management requirements so roll the whole conversation back.what is your stocking rate going to be and then tell us why you want to run a very high stocking rate

moy83

keep going wrote: »

Was involved in a discussion once with larence shalloo about stocking rate on milking blocks and his answer was whatever grass your farm can grow plus 300 kilos a cows .going beyond that lowered margin and incresed risk and management requirements so roll the whole conversation back.what is your stocking rate going to be and then tell us why you want to run a very high stocking rate

Sounds sensible . The only reason I would be thinking of a high SR is because we wouldn't have enough ground around the parlour to carry enough cows to make it worthwhile going back into milking .

Farmer Pudsey

If I was going setting up a dairy farm on tillage land you would have to consider zero grazing. The roadway and fencing would help pay for the zero grazer. Would you grow 15-20% more grass in the year and increase utilisation. You would be cutting slightly above present grazing heights.

Balancing the diet would not be an issue. It is not as hard as you think. But it would be more labour intensive. You would have to push grass in 3-4 times a day. Using the barriers that move forward might help but more expense. The issue would be would you get the value from slurry from May-September. Beef may use it more down the line than milk

_Brian

save_me_some wrote: »

while obviously it involves a sizeable spend , you would think that in cases where a man is tight for land , it would be more efficent to keep cows in all the time and simply haul in grass to them , i realise its more laborious but their would be much less feed wasted through poaching and cows would be on a more consistent diet

i ask because i have a small amount of land and im thinking of getting into dairying next year , keeping the cows in all the time seems to be the only way i can maximise what land i have

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Zero grazing is a great opportunity to build out grass usage in conditions where poaching would e a problem. But where weather is good and travel time is low all that is being achieved is turning a cheap feed into a more expensive more labour intensive feed.
Plus your removing the health benifet of cows being out so in general you'll need to factor in the added expense in terms of cow health and indeed increased early culling.

Good to use it when you have to, but choosing to use when you don't is just building expense onto a system where margins will be important.

Milked out

If a tractor and trailer can travel ground then cows can get out on it, the idea that zg can go out in conditions that cows can't is just sales talk imo. There best use is bringing grass from areas where cows can't walk to, ie out farms or fragmented farms. you would be better of grazing and bringing in maize or silage to buffer if you want to up sr

visatorro

Just on maize it's a very expensive crop. Although if its good stuff going into the pit it's a great feed. But the cost of twenty acres of maize would go along way to buying a grazer. Just throwing that in aswell!

sheebadog

Wouldn't recommend ZG to anyone. Time consuming, expensive and of no benefit over grazing.
For one person on their own it would be a stones.
Maybe has a place on a restricted grazing block but making pit silage with maize would be much easier.
Would have no place with shyte cows.

Muckit

save_me_some wrote: »

2. grass is almost universally accepted as being superior to silage , zero grazing still involves feeding grass

Apparently not so according to the latest teagasc trials. Silage quality relative to the quality of grass you ensile . If you were cutting leafy silage like stan every 5-6 weeks at correct time of year you would have exceptional quality silage.

I would agree that feeding in pit silage would be much less hassle and can be done relatively cost effective by contractor with modern silage wagons

Deepsouthwest

Milked out wrote: »

If a tractor and trailer can travel ground then cows can get out on it, the idea that zg can go out in conditions that cows can't is just sales talk imo. There best use is bringing grass from areas where cows can't walk to, ie out farms or fragmented farms. you would be better of grazing and bringing in maize or silage to buffer if you want to up sr

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