How would I go about this?

Mez1982

Hi all, back again with another question for all you knowledgable folks .
When I checked both the 1901 census and 1911 census
there seems to be roughly 100 people in the entire country with the surname Storan.
My gggrandmother was Mary Storan (I've also seen it listed as Storen but even putting this is is not giving me any results for Tipperary either) before marriage and when I looked at her census entry it has Tipperary down as her birth place but the census is giving me no results for anyone else with this surname anywhere else in the county .
I found her marriage on family search. org and it lists her address at time of marriage as Tipperary.
The other entires for Storan and Storen surname are coming up for mostly limerick with one or 2 for Clare and 1 or 2 for Antrim.

I suppose my other question would be expanding my search into Limerick be wise as I'm just guessing that because it's so close to Tipperary that I would assume it possible that this maybe where her parents came from? Any ideas welcome and thank you once again in advance

pinkypinky

Well, you should definitely consider looking at other counties.

You can do a wildcard search on the census like this: st*r*n and it will bring up any name which follows that pattern. You should check Tipperary this way in case there is a typo.

Also look at Griffiths Valuation. The received spelling does not appear in Tipperary but there are 9 entries for Clare and Limerick.

Hermy

Perhaps this is no help but there are 3 entries in the Calendar of Wills, 2 of which mention a Mary Storan, if they might provide clues.

dido2

I wouldn't take Tipperary as being her birth place just because it was her address when she married, I've a marriage cert for a couple who got married in Tipperary but one was from Cork, the other either Tipperary or Limerick, he states both places on each of the census!

What year roughly was she born???

dido2

Possibly one way of narrowing them down is to put together a list of any possibles ones and I send them to the GRO but ask that they only send the one with a matching fathers name, presuming her fathers name was on the Marriage cert!

Mez1982

dido2 wrote: »

Possibly one way of narrowing them down is to put together a list of any possibles ones and I send them to the GRO but ask that they only send the one with a matching fathers name, presuming her fathers name was on the Marriage cert!

On the census entry TIpperary is listed as her birthplace so that's why I'm assuming she was born there, Her birthdate is 1840 .
I had a look on roots ireland and all I'm getting is a mary storen born in Tipperary in 1837 and a Thomas storen (who is listed as her father) as being married in Tipperary in the early 1800s but I can find no record of any birth of a Thomas storen or storan for tipperary so I am clueless as to what county I should be focusing on to find this out.
If I took a trip to Newport's church would I be allowed to have a look at their records for that time frame? maybe his marriage record might give me the county.

dido2

I didn't realise it was so early!!! In that time frame it will be hard to narrow down where she was born because not all baptisms are online and there was no civil registration... The only hope you'd have of proving a link is if you can find her baptism record and hope that her marriage details were entered into her baptism details..

shanew

which Mary Storen is yours .. the one who married in 1864 or the one married in 1865 ?

Mez1982

shanew wrote: »

which Mary Storen is yours .. the one who married in 1864 or the one married in 1865 ?

She was married in 1865 to a Robert Phillips

shanew

thx - see the father's name in the extracted record. Do you have a civil cert ?

Mez1982

shanew wrote: »

thx - see the father's name in the extracted record. Do you have a civil cert ?

Yes, I purchased my copy of it from roots ireland. It gives me age , date of birth, and the address at time of marriage , fathers names for both bride and groome and that's as far as it goes unfortunately.

shanew

what is given as place of residence for the bride and groom, and what are the occupations for the fathers of the couple ?

there could be clues in any of these.

Griffith's is not showing any Thomas Storan/Storen, and all the matches on the surname are either Clare or Limerick, but the dates would be slightly earlier than the marriage for Mary

p.s. also - names of witnesses

Mez1982

shanew wrote: »

what is given as place of residence for the bride and groom, and what are the occupations for the fathers of the couple ?

there could be clues in any of these.

Griffith's is not showing any Thomas Storan/Storen, and all the matches on the surname are either Clare or Limerick, but the dates would be slightly earlier than the marriage for Mary

p.s. also - names of witnesses

Mary Storan
Mount Phillips
Age is 25
Occupation is servant
Father is Thomas Storan
Occupation is Mason ( assuming stone mason?)
No mothers name
Witness for her is a Nancy Ryan

Robert phillips
Oakhampton
Age is 30
Status is bachelor
Fathers name is Robert Phillips also
Occupation gentleman
Witness for him is a Richard Phillips

Notes:
Married in Newport church Redmond burke pp

shanew

thx

first thing that jumps out is the occupation for Mary. Since she was in service she could easily have moved from her home area.

suspect Robert will be easier to follow... will have a look into the locations

The Mary Storen bapt. 1837, Newport RC Parish, Co. Tipp has father's name matching Thomas - have you eliminated this already ?

pedroeibar1

You're in a difficult corner of Tipp that includes very confusing Civil / religious boundaries. Do not rule out Limerick. Tipp Family History (www.tfhr.org )are v. good on Church records if you cannot get to a microfilm.

shanew

if that '37 baptism is correct, then mother's name is Judy, cant figure out surname for her yet

probable siblings for this Mary - John 1829, Michael 1831, James 1834, Thomas 1841, Anne 1846, all seem to be in the same parish i.e. Newport RC

shanew

Judy's surname is Elliot, and she married Thomas Storen in 1828, Newport RC parish.

shanew

a little more on this family while the going's good...

no sign of marriages for any of the brothers, but there's an extracted civil marriage in Co. Limerick for a possible sister Margaret (born c1841) in 1868 to a William Cagney - might be worth checking a cert for this to see if father's occupation matches - page ref. is 147. Father is Thomas and surname is spelt as Storin.. put that into Griffith's and a Thomas Storin shows up with a house in the town of Birdhill in Kilcomenty civil parish, which is one of those covered by Newport RC parish

Mez1982

shanew wrote: »

a little more on this family while the going's good...

no sign of marriages for any of the brothers, but there's an extracted civil marriage in Co. Limerick for a possible sister Margaret (born c1841) in 1868 to a William Cagney - might be worth checking a cert for this to see if father's occupation matches - page ref. is 147. Father is Thomas and surname is spelt as Storin.. put that into Griffith's and a Thomas Storin shows up with a house in the town of Birdhill in Kilcomenty civil parish, which is one of those covered by Newport RC parish

The Mary Storen Birth for TIpperary did list an address for Birdhill, can't remember anything else as I was was new at this and just thought it was a different family name altogether but knowing what I know now it's interesting that Birdhill raises it's head again! Thank you very much for taking the time out to get me this information

shanew

Think that marriage I mentioned for Margaret might be a little too far to the west, but it's possible that a mason and his family might move around for work.. so might be worth keeping a note of.

Mountphilips/Mount Philips townland is in Kilvellane civil parish, one of those covered by Newport RC parish, and no Storen/in/an at Mountphilips townland on Griffith's, but there is a Robert Phillips occupying 3 acres of land (no house mentioned), and a William Phillips esq, occupying over 230 acres of land. He seems to be the owner, land is shown as 'In fee', for the entire townland.

The townland may be named after the Phillips family, or maybe vice versa, and listed as that name back to at least 1778, and before that it seems to have been shown as Cloncumure, Cloncnnire or similar. The Mount Philips house/estate is mentioned in Lewis 1837, under the entry for the civil parish of Kilvolane, and alternate spelling for Kilvellane

Oakhampton townland is in Kilnarath civil parish and also in the same RC parish.

Mountphilips townland (OSI map c1837) and Oakhampton townland are less than 4km apart and located to the south east of Birdhill. Mountphilips is about 6km from Birdhill.

The details and locations all seem to fit together so I'd say this is the correct trail for your Storen/Stran/Storins family. It looks like Mary went to work for a nearby big house, Robert is possibly a son or some relation of the Phillips family that owned and ran the owned the estate.property as a house without land could fit with a mason.. I'd like to see another mention of occupation for Thomas on a marriage for one of his children to go with one of those baptisms, but maybe that's being fussy..

Mez1982

I looked into that trail of Phillips before with A RObert Phillips born roughly in 1809 I think with a father called John phillips ESQ. A Robert Phillips was a beneficiary along with a Richard Phillips for some land
This is the part I found and what it says
In July 1851 the lands of Freagh, 40 acres in the barony of Owney and Arra, the estate Christopher Hume Lawder, assignee of the estate of Richard and Robert Philips, gentlemen and insolvent debtors "and each of whom claim respectively to be, and one or other of whom is, the heir at law of Samuel William Philips of Oakhampton", was advertised for sale.

Problem lies with these phillips being church of ireland and my Robert phillips being Roman Catholic , I suppose this could explain why his father was a gentleman but with these being church of ireland and my search so far being Roman Catholic I don't know whether it could be possible that he changed his religion to marry Mary SToran ? How common or how likely would you think this would be? And what would the consequences of this be for him and his family?

shanew

I've at least three converts to Catholic in my direct line for marriage. This could lead to a falling out in some families, my lot, the most recent ones anyway, got over it after a while...

If Robert really was the son of a gentleman then he seems to have taken a step down to a Labourer by the 1901 and 1911 census ... if I have the correct family. He is shown as 'cannot read' and both returns are filled in by the enumeratior. I'd have thought a son of gentry would have been educated.

Mez1982

Yeah it does seen strange to have his father with an occupation as a gentleman and then he himself not being able to read...I think now it would be safe to say that that line of phillips are not who I need to be chasing up!
Thanks ever so much for answering all my questions today you've been a really big help!