Ragwort in silage ground

ferger1

Have a bit of ragworth in 14 acres of silage ground that I intend to mow tomorrow and put into the pit. Should they be pulled or just leave em off into the harvester

Reggie.

ferger1 wrote: »

Have a bit of ragworth in 14 acres of silage ground that I intend to mow tomorrow and put into the pit. Should they be pulled or just leave em off into the harvester

I'd pull it if it wasn't too much bother

Mad4simmental

ferger1 wrote: »

Have a bit of ragworth in 14 acres of silage ground that I intend to mow tomorrow and put into the pit. Should they be pulled or just leave em off into the harvester

Wouldn't like it to be honest. Is there to much to pull? It's still very bad for cattle in silage.

_Brian

Wouldn't like the idea of it in silage at all. Pain but pulling may be needed. At least ground is soft with recent rain.

ferger1

Reggie. wrote: »

I'd pull it if it wasn't too much bother

bit of work in it alrite, could they be harmful to in calf sucklers eating pit silage

ferger1

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Wouldn't like it to be honest. Is there to much to pull? It's still very bad for cattle in silage.

To be honest I hadn't even spotted them until we got the heavy rain and it flattened the grass and they started standing tall. Never noticed them before. Bit of work in pulling them on your own!

_Brian

The problem is the unknown !!

If you cut them and leave them lying on a field they are poisonous for 3-4 weeks.. But preserving them in silage - there would be a serious fear that the poisonous element would still be there at feeding time. Its a cumulative effect too, meaning you could feed an amount and everything seemed fine - then suddenly the symptoms appear and AFAIK there is no going back then !!

I wouldn't be having them in the silage.

whelan2

would it be an option to do hay in the field, the ragworth dies in hay but is preserved in silage,

farmersfriend

ferger1 wrote: »

To be honest I hadn't even spotted them until we got the heavy rain and it flattened the grass and they started standing tall. Never noticed them before. Bit of work in pulling them on your own!

Better off pulling them for peace of mind. We did ours during the week, its not too bad if u have company

Mad4simmental

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is the unknown !!

If you cut them and leave them lying on a field they are poisonous for 3-4 weeks.. But preserving them in silage - there would be a serious fear that the poisonous element would still be there at feeding time. Its a cumulative effect too, meaning you could feed an amount and everything seemed fine - then suddenly the symptoms appear and AFAIK there is no going back then !!

I wouldn't be having them in the silage.

+1 it's the liver that it hits and that's irreversible damage. Could you round up a few young lads and belf at it for an hour or two?

whelan2

We pulled ours today. There was 3 of them in it.

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

We pulled ours today. There was 3 of them in it.

Your heart must have been broke

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Your heart must have been broke

yup and my back. seriously if there was alot in it i wouldnt be doing silage on it

ferger1

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is the unknown !!

If you cut them and leave them lying on a field they are poisonous for 3-4 weeks.. But preserving them in silage - there would be a serious fear that the poisonous element would still be there at feeding time. Its a cumulative effect too, meaning you could feed an amount and everything seemed fine - then suddenly the symptoms appear and AFAIK there is no going back then !!

I wouldn't be having them in the silage.

Mind made up so, ill just have to pull the most of them

_Brian

ferger1 wrote: »

Mind made up so, ill just have to pull the most of them

And you need gloves because the chemical can be absorbed through the hands and will affect your liver too..

paulbok

_Brian wrote: »

And you need gloves because the chemical can be absorbed through the hands and will affect your liver too..

Leave that to your few pints after the silage is done

Greengrass1

Pull them. Wouldn't take the chsnce. We had 28 acres full of them 5 yrs ago. Pulled them for two seasons and have no more. Father rounded us all up 2 or 3 nights each week and we got it done.
The cows might seem fine when there eating the silage but 3 months later you will be wondering why you have sick cows

ferger1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Pull them. Wouldn't take the chsnce. We had 28 acres full of them 5 yrs ago. Pulled them for two seasons and have no more. Father rounded us all up 2 or 3 nights each week and we got it done.
The cows might seem fine when there eating the silage but 3 months later you will be wondering why you have sick cows

Pullin them all evenin...not long finished. Got the majority of them, still a few left. A handful would hardly make much of a difference would it?

ferger1

_Brian wrote: »

And you need gloves because the chemical can be absorbed through the hands and will affect your liver too..

Good point, would never have thought of that

Reggie.

ferger1 wrote: »

Pullin them all evenin...not long finished. Got the majority of them, still a few left. A handful would hardly make much of a difference would it?

The more you can get the better

Greengrass1

ferger1 wrote: »

Pullin them all evenin...not long finished. Got the majority of them, still a few left. A handful would hardly make much of a difference would it?

Pull All you can see. Better be safe than sorry. Bit of work but there a horrid yoke if cattle eat them

Timmaay

I declared war on ragworts last summer. Every time I was down the fields I'd pull afew and bring them up with me. This year I have yet to see one anywhere on the farm! Progress!!!!

Reggie.

Timmaay wrote: »

I declared war on ragworts last summer. Every time I was down the fields I'd pull afew and bring them up with me. This year I have yet to see one anywhere on the farm! Progress!!!!

That's genocide

munkus

ferger1 wrote: »

Pullin them all evenin...not long finished. Got the majority of them, still a few left. A handful would hardly make much of a difference would it?

Why are you even asking that! Pull them all or you could have dead cattle. You need a shoe in the hole :pac:

onyerbikepat

Timmaay wrote: »

I declared war on ragworts last summer. Every time I was down the fields I'd pull afew and bring them up with me. This year I have yet to see one anywhere on the farm! Progress!!!!

I have being doing that for years now. There's no point throwing them in the corner of a field as they will seed and blow around. I don't think I have seen one this year yet.
I reckon if you keep pulling them, the work goes down about 90% every year. I wish rushes were as easy to get rid of.

Oldtree

Reggie. wrote: »

That's genocide

no its manual herbicide

sueonmull

Sorry to butt in but wanted to add a couple of points. Agree ragwort poisoning is cumulative which is one of the worst things about ragwort, you don’t usually see any symptoms until it’s too late. But the other thing is that it is toxic even when dead so, whether it’s in silage or hay, ragwort remains just as poisonous as when it was living. When wilted it looses its bitter taste so animals will eat it which is why it is also never a good idea to cut and leave it in a field where grazing animals can get to it. Young stock are particularly vulnerable.

onyerbikepat

Welcome to boards, by the way.....and feel free to but in anytime.;)

sueonmull

Thanks onyerbikepat ....don't encourage me!!!!

Sam Kade

How would you see it in the field up to now? It sticks out like a sows ear after flowering but impossible to find at the rosette stage.

whelan2

sueonmull wrote: »

Sorry to butt in but wanted to add a couple of points. Agree ragwort poisoning is cumulative which is one of the worst things about ragwort, you don’t usually see any symptoms until it’s too late. But the other thing is that it is toxic even when dead so, whether it’s in silage or hay, ragwort remains just as poisonous as when it was living. When wilted it looses its bitter taste so animals will eat it which is why it is also never a good idea to cut and leave it in a field where grazing animals can get to it. Young stock are particularly vulnerable.

have done a good bit of study on ragworth- lost some purchased in animals afew years ago:(- cattle will only eat ragworth while it is standing if there is nothing else for them to eat-bare pasture-. Ragworth is palatable when dying, so if you spray them make sure they are fully dead before letting cattle graze again, can take up to 3 weeks for them to die fully. If you spray and there is frost, this will hamper the kill and they will only half die thus making them palatable. Ragworth is preserved in silage so they will eat it. In hay it is dead and the research says they wont eat it as it is dead-but it could be wrong. If you pull the ragworth dispose of it where no stock can get it.

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

have done a good bit of study on ragworth- lost some purchased in animals afew years ago:(- cattle will only eat ragworth while it is standing if there is nothing else for them to eat-bare pasture-. Ragworth is palatable when dying, so if you spray them make sure they are fully dead before letting cattle graze again, can take up to 3 weeks for them to die fully. If you spray and there is frost, this will hamper the kill and they will only half die thus making them palatable. Ragworth is preserved in silage so they will eat it. In hay it is dead and the research says they wont eat it as it is dead-but it could be wrong. If you pull the ragworth dispose of it where no stock can get it.

Indeed..
So say if there were some in a topped field, three weeks should see them ok to let stock back onto??

I spot sprayed our only field with them last summer and it made a huge difference..

whelan2

_Brian wrote: »

Indeed..
So say if there were some in a topped field, three weeks should see them ok to let stock back onto??

I spot sprayed our only field with them last summer and it made a huge difference..

once they are fully dead they are supposed to be unpalatable. I pull alot of them every year, they are mostly under the electric fences, not as many around this year- thank fook- went through fields i am doing for silage bales yesterday there was feck all regworth in them.

greysides

http://www.teagasc.ie/horticulture/advisory/vegetable/ragwort.asp

Poisoning

Ragwort is a highly poisonous plant if eaten. Ragwort is toxic to cattle, horses, deer, goats, pigs and chickens. Sheep are less affected by it but some trials would suggest lower thrive due to eating ragwort The poisonous substances in ragwort are toxic alkaloids (Jacobine, Jacodine and Jaconine). These cause the liver to accumulate copper, causing ill heath and death. On good pastures livestock avoid eating ragwort, as it is unpalatable, but where there is over-stocking and grass is scarce the weed is unavoidably eaten. The poisonous material contained in ragwort is not destroyed by drying. Hay containing ragwort is particularly dangerous. Grass silage containing ragwort is also a serious source of poisoning. Cases of poisoning occurring in late winter and spring often result from the feeding for some months previously of hay or silage cut from ragwort infested swards.

greysides

http://www.ceh.ac.uk/sci_programmes/documents/ragwort.pdf

Most poisoning incidents occur as a result of eating hay or cut grass in which Ragwort is present.
The loss of unpalatability allows consumption of greater quantities of dried, than of live material,
therefore increasing the relative exposure to alkaloids. Indeed, the material may even become
attractive to livestock when cut. It is therefore very important when controlling this species that
livestock are excluded from the site until after complete decomposition of the plant has taken
place.

sueonmull

Thanks greysides, I've just spent the past few minutes writing a reply/spellchecking and you pretty much said everything was going to say!!!
Ragwort causes a lot of animated discussion between livestock keepers and conservationists but one thing they all agree on is that ragwort is toxic at all stages of its lifecycle and particularly dangerous when wilted/dried and baled in hay or silage. Anyone with any queries should have a chat with their vet for their opinion.
The cumulative nature of the damage caused by ragwort means that a toxic dose doesn’t have to be eaten in one go, it can be eaten over a period or months or even years. As has been said, once the symptoms are seen damage to the liver is substantial, then all that can be done, if anything, is to preserve what little liver function is left – economically this is unlikely to be viable in farm stock but careful control of diet and lifestyle can sometimes help companion grazing animals.

whelan2

sueonmull wrote: »

Thanks greysides, I've just spent the past few minutes writing a reply/spellchecking and you pretty much said everything was going to say!!!
Ragwort causes a lot of animated discussion between livestock keepers and conservationists but one thing they all agree on is that ragwort is toxic at all stages of its lifecycle and particularly dangerous when wilted/dried and baled in hay or silage. Anyone with any queries should have a chat with their vet for their opinion.
The cumulative nature of the damage caused by ragwort means that a toxic dose doesn’t have to be eaten in one go, it can be eaten over a period or months or even years. As has been said, once the symptoms are seen damage to the liver is substantial, then all that can be done, if anything, is to preserve what little liver function is left – economically this is unlikely to be viable in farm stock but careful control of diet and lifestyle can sometimes help companion grazing animals.

slow and painful death, wouldnt wish it on anyone, all for the sake of either spraying or picking them. To sell animals to anyone knowing they have eaten it is the lowest of the low imo

ferger1

munkus wrote: »

Why are you even asking that! Pull them all or you could have dead cattle. You need a shoe in the hole :pac:

You misunderstood, what I meant was maybe there is some that I ve just missed, like smaller ones that may not have outgrown the silage...anything that's visible is gone. Not avoiding picking them at all!!

whelan2

greysides wrote: »

http://www.teagasc.ie/horticulture/advisory/vegetable/ragwort.asp

Poisoning

Ragwort is a highly poisonous plant if eaten. Ragwort is toxic to cattle, horses, deer, goats, pigs and chickens. Sheep are less affected by it but some trials would suggest lower thrive due to eating ragwort The poisonous substances in ragwort are toxic alkaloids (Jacobine, Jacodine and Jaconine). These cause the liver to accumulate copper, causing ill heath and death. On good pastures livestock avoid eating ragwort, as it is unpalatable, but where there is over-stocking and grass is scarce the weed is unavoidably eaten. The poisonous material contained in ragwort is not destroyed by drying. Hay containing ragwort is particularly dangerous. Grass silage containing ragwort is also a serious source of poisoning. Cases of poisoning occurring in late winter and spring often result from the feeding for some months previously of hay or silage cut from ragwort infested swards.

thanks.... hate ragworth:cool:

Zr105

A little help from those friends of ours maguire and patterson is the only really 100% way to be sure their not in the wrong place after pulling them....

whelan2

Zr105 wrote: »

A little help from those friends of ours maguire and patterson is the only really 100% way to be sure their not in the wrong place after pulling them....

i put them in the skip

satstheway

Take the lazy man option. Cut bale sell

Reggie.

satstheway wrote: »

Take the lazy man option. Cut bale sell

Bad karma there

Username John

munkus wrote: »

Why are you even asking that! Pull them all or you could have dead cattle. You need a shoe in the hole :pac:

I thought ragworth was ok in silage, it was only when it was in hay it was poisonous?

Ignore - I see the post someone put from Teagasc, saying its possibly poisons in silage too.

Bellview

I really hate ragworth. The neighbouring farm to me is a waster and on his own he will ensure that pest of a weed will survive. I would love if sfp included weed control.

whelan2

sprayed under some of the electric fence with roundup/graz on last week, ragworth are really easy to pull up now. Going to do the same on the rest of the fences, saves alot of hard work