Asthma and cycle racing

tomdempsey200

there's a big sh1tstorm blown up over an inhaler froome used on monday on the climb

godtabh

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

but he had plenty of power in 2012..

but not compared to when he was on the track. Enough for the Tour

Inquitus

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

there's a big sh1tstorm blown up over an inhaler froome used on monday on the climb

Not really, he used an Salbutamol inhaler that doesn't even require a TUE to assist with his exercise induced Asthma, nothing to see here despite people wishing there was.

pelevin

Inquitus wrote: »

Not really, he used an Salbutamol inhaler that doesn't even require a TUE to assist with his exercise induced Asthma, nothing to see here despite people wishing there was.

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping, but I think the fair question from a general point of view is if there's a performance enhancing aspect to such an inhaler used in race time. I'm a total layman but does such an inhaler help in increasing one's intake of O2, & so one's available energy? If so, is there a case for saying having asthma is unfortunate but not something which should be compensated for in the midst of competitive athletics?

neris

pelevin wrote: »

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

Darkglasses

neris wrote: »

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

Reading some posts on here over the last couple of years I can guarantee you some people take great pleasure in knocking the sport if cycling as being full of dopers, and that we're foolish to be watching it. Some people want to be able to say "I told you so" in a few years time.

pelevin

neris wrote: »

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

There are definitely lots of people who want them to be caught for doping, just look at comments on articles Cycling News for a few days & that'll become clear enough.

lennymc

there is an upper daily limit for salbutamol (1600 mg iirc). If he is over that limit I'm sure it would be picked up and he would be penalised. Lots of riders use it. Lots of professional sports people use it. Cian Healy, Paul Scholes, Big Mig, Jan Ulrich, Paula Radcliff and many more have asthma.

There is no extra benefit from using an inhaler on the bike imho. (subjective I know, but I have had asthma for years and use inhalers when riding and running). All they do is to help you breath normally when breathing normally is not possible due to the asthma. Having seriously restricted breathing due to asthma is pretty horrible.

Brian?

pelevin wrote: »

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping, but I think the fair question from a general point of view is if there's a performance enhancing aspect to such an inhaler used in race time. I'm a total layman but does such an inhaler help in increasing one's intake of O2, & so one's available energy? If so, is there a case for saying having asthma is unfortunate but not something which should be compensated for in the midst of competitive athletics?

It dialates the passageways in the lungs. That's it really. If you don't have Asthma, it'll do feck all.

godtabh

Brian? wrote: »

It dialates the passageways in the lungs. That's it really. If you don't have Asthma, it'll do feck all.

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

Brian?

godtabh wrote: »

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

I can't remember. I wouldn't see it raising your heart beat as a plus though.

godtabh

Brian? wrote: »

I can't remember. I wouldn't see it raising your heart beat as a plus though.

thats what I meant. People assume its a performance enhancer but it may not be

slfcarro5

godtabh wrote: »

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

It's the purple one (seritide) that raises your heart rate

lennymc

taken from the 2014 wada prohibited list

Wada wrote:

S3. BETA-2 AGONISTS

All beta-2 agonists, including all optical isomers (e.g. d- and l-) where relevant,
are prohibited except inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24
hours), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24
hours) and salmeterol when taken by inhalation in accordance with the
manufacturers’ recommended therapeutic regimen.

The 2014 Prohibited List
11 September 2013
5

The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in
excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the
substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding unless the
Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal
result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic inhaled dose up to the
maximum indicated above.

ROK ON

lennymc wrote: »

there is an upper daily limit for salbutamol (1600 mg iirc). If he is over that limit I'm sure it would be picked up and he would be penalised. Lots of riders use it. Lots of professional sports people use it. Cian Healy, Paul Scholes, Big Mig, Jan Ulrich, Paula Radcliff and many more have asthma.

There is no extra benefit from using an inhaler on the bike imho. (subjective I know, but I have had asthma for years and use inhalers when riding and running). All they do is to help you breath normally when breathing normally is not possible due to the asthma. Having seriously restricted breathing due to asthma is pretty horrible.

IIRC when ex Munster and Irish rugby player Frankie Sheahan was infracted for salbutamol use he received a huge amount of support from pro rugby players everywhere.
It transpired that a very significant amount of the munster rugby team were asthmatic. Both Martin Johnson and Lawerence Dallalagio supported Sheahan - almost the entire English pack claimed to be asthmatic.

Make of that what you will.
My view is the incidence of sports induced asthma seems to be increasing over time (or is that it's diagnosis).

Eamonnator

ROK ON wrote: »

IIRC when ex Munster and Irish rugby player Frankie Sheahan was infracted for salbutamol use he received a huge amount of support from pro rugby players everywhere.
It transpired that a very significant amount of the munster rugby team were asthmatic. Both Martin Johnson and Lawerence Dallalagio supported Sheahan - almost the entire English pack claimed to be asthmatic.

Make of that what you will.
My view is the incidence of sports induced asthma seems to be increasing over time (or is that it's diagnosis).

Can you give a link to information about this, please?

ROK ON

Eamonnator wrote: »

Can you give a link to information about this, please?

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7918.php#.U5jRYf15nTo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/2410630/Sheahan-fights-for-his-right-to-breathe.html

tomdempsey200

25% of team GB at London 2012 were asthmatic

Eamonnator

ROK ON wrote: »

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7918.php#.U5jRYf15nTo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/2410630/Sheahan-fights-for-his-right-to-breathe.html

At about this time,2002-2003 my son was an elite cyclist(DH MTB). He is asthmatic. He had a TUE for his ventolin inhaler, and other medication. He was tested regularly, maybe 5-6 a year. He never had any problem.
I was unaware, that athletes had such problems.

lennymc

The TUE was removed in about 2011 iirc, and instead, an upper daily limit was introduced.

godtabh

If it was illegal I doubt it would be done so openly during a race

lennymc

godtabh wrote: »

If it was illegal I doubt it would be done so openly during a race

that's the thing - it's not illegal. It's no more illegal than taking a gel.

laraghrider

As someone who suffered with asthma since being a child I can speak from experience here. Now thankfully it hasn't affected me in years and I've not needed an inhaler for possibly 10 years. Anyway when you are either fully asthmatic or exercise induced all the inhaler does (combivent then ventolin in my case) is coats and dilates your airways. This merely brings you up to the same level as someone without asthma. If you are not asthmatic you can feel slightly strange after taking an inhaler but in reality it does absolutely nothing for you.

Now there is a case of over use. If you puff on it excessively and I mean 10plus times it can give you a very short term feeling of a lot of air. Weather this translates into actual performance I don't know. It can also make you light headed though. Anybody familiar with Allesando Petacchi this is what he was disqualified from the 2007 giro for. He regularly took like 10 puffs coming up to the final sprint and registered a much higher reading that allowable.

So in short this whole Chris Froome inhaler he's cheating thing is absolutely and completely bollo....

pelevin

laraghrider wrote: »

As someone who suffered with asthma since being a child I can speak from experience here. Now thankfully it hasn't affected me in years and I've not needed an inhaler for possibly 10 years. Anyway when you are either fully asthmatic or exercise induced all the inhaler does (combivent then ventolin in my case) is coats and dilates your airways. This merely brings you up to the same level as someone without asthma. If you are not asthmatic you can feel slightly strange after taking an inhaler but in reality it does absolutely nothing for you.

Now there is a case of over use. If you puff on it excessively and I mean 10plus times it can give you a very short term feeling of a lot of air. Weather this translates into actual performance I don't know. It can also make you light headed though. Anybody familiar with Allesando Petacchi this is what he was disqualified from the 2007 giro for. He regularly took like 10 puffs coming up to the final sprint and registered a much higher reading that allowable.

So in short this whole Chris Froome inhaler he's cheating thing is absolutely and completely bollo....

Thanks for that, though as a slight caveat I'd say, given your info about Petacchi, the idea using an inhaler is cheating is absolute, total boll. . . doesn't quite tally, or is unnecessarily overstating the case.

Chips Lovell

Had asthma as a kid right through to my early 20s. Wouldn't have been able to play sports without inhalers. Significant proportion of my rugby team in school also had it to varying degrees.

Can completely understand how someone could overdo it with an inhaler without intending to cheat. You live in constant fear that your asthma will strike at the wrong time and go for the "better sure than sorry" approach.

It's like firing gels into you near the end of a race. You probably don't need them but you need that mental reassurance.

Eamonnator

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

25% of team GB at London 2012 were asthmatic

Does anybody know,what percentage of the general population is asthmatic?

Chips Lovell

I'd expect to see a higher incidence of asthma in athletes than in the general population.

Bristolscale7

Eamonnator wrote: »

Does anybody know,what percentage of the general population is asthmatic?

8-10% I think.

gordongekko

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I'd expect to see a higher incidence of asthma in athletes than in the general population.

Why?

Brian?

gordongekko wrote: »

Why?

Because exercise induced asthma is very real and effects realy fit people, like Olympians.

There is definitely an attitude around that it's a con, people are claiming to be asthmatic to use inhalers and get an edge performance wise. It's not though, salbutamol will do feck all for you unless you're asthmatic.

Chips Lovell

Two factors:

1. Sedentary people aren't going to suffer from exercise induced asthma.
2. Sedentary people with milder cases of asthma are more likely to go undiagnosed.

tomdempsey200

it seems to be a non story anyhow

as the inhaler is allowed (within reason) without even a TUE

Darkglasses

Split from the Criterium du Dauphine thread

lennymc

Eamonnator wrote: »

Does anybody know,what percentage of the general population is asthmatic?

Asthma stats for Ireland

7.1% of 18+ population have asthma
18.9% of 13 – 15 year olds have asthma
38.5% of 13 – 15 year olds reported wheezing

slideshow bob

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I'd expect to see a higher incidence of asthma in athletes than in the general population.

You'd be right.

Exercise-induced asthma, respiratory and allergic disorders in elite athletes: epidemiology, mechanisms and diagnosis: Part I of the report from the Joint Task Force of the European Respiratory Society (ERS) and the European Academy of Allergy and Clinical Immunology (EAACI) in cooperation with GA2LEN

Conclusions:  The prevalence of asthma and bronchial hyperresponsiveness is markedly increased in athletes, especially within endurance sports. Environmental factors often contribute.

Macy0161

Inquitus wrote: »

Not really, he used an Salbutamol inhaler that doesn't even require a TUE to assist with his exercise induced Asthma, nothing to see here despite people wishing there was.

On the face if, nothing to see here, but another PR blunder from Sky brought about by their lack of transparency.

Raam

Macy0161 wrote: »

On the face if, nothing to see here, but another PR blunder from Sky brought about by their lack of transparency.

What was not transparent here?

lennymc

I would have thought it was more like another witch hunt by people who don't know what they are on about, rather than any wrong doing on sky's part.

Cant wait to use my inhaler mid race on Sunday just before I attack

Raam

Man uses legal breathing aid in public during an extremely intensive and sustained effort. Seems transparent enough.

Chips Lovell

I'm not sure what exactly the PR blunder is here?

Raam

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I'm not sure what exactly the PR blunder is here?

They didn't make a press release about it.

morana

do we know it was salbutamol? Does it leave anything in the sample except for little "Ventolin" signs floating around?

I dont know just asking

Macy0161

They've explained away his transformation due to illness, and they couldn't have also mentioned the asthma? Rather than reveal it on the road in the middle of a race? It's a PR blunder because, again, Sky are explaining away something, rather than revealing things first.

Chips Lovell

They should press release that someone has asthma? Seriously? What next? Should Sky call a press conference if Froome takes a Dispirin?

laraghrider

Ah come on people will ya. I'm no fan of sky or Chris Froome but giving out about now not detailing every single issue with every rider is a little bit much. If Quintana had used an inhaler in the giro what would have been the fall out? "oh look he has asthma, well done lad" Would we have complained that Movistar didn't tell us nor tell us about his illness earlier in his life? No.

Am I to understand Sky should have given a full dossier on every health issue and a full medical breakdown when talking about a past illness? Ridiculous. I don't know how more transparent you can get than being on tv to millions around the world taking 2 puffs (standard) of an inhaler.

@morana, It's not necessarily salbutamol as that is an active ingredient in a wide variety of inhalers. From what I know of last night sky said it was ventolin which is a salbutamol based inhaler and if you do a blood test you can easily see levels of salbutamol in a persons system. Since Froome has never breached the limits allowed then safe to say it's a standard inhaler taken within the limitations.

Macy0161

It's not every single rider, it's the bloody rider that came from being chucked out of Grand Tours for hanging on to motorbikes and facing into no contract extension, to dominating the Tour.

on_the_nickel

It's perfectly legal, it's very questionable as to whether it could in any way be performance enhancing, so there should be no issue. But, why has it never come up before that he suffers from asthma?

Michelle Cound - “No TUE required, he has asthma, hence the coughing after exertion #duh #trolls”

So, Froome's recovery from bilharzia is mentioned in nearly every article you read about him, covered in detail in his very recent book, but asthma isn't mentioned once? Ever?

It should be nothing, but given the history of the sport, and his performances over the past two years (after getting dumped out of the Giro in 2010), and Team Sky's "you can't be half a cheat", it's worthy of a fuller explanation.

RobFowl

godtabh wrote: »

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

It does (although as pointed out thats not performance enhancing) although also give you palpitations and a lovely tremor .......

tomdempsey200

no TUE required
and not-performance
enhancing it seems (at legal doses)

so a bit of a non story after all then