eircom Contract Migration

James_R

We upgraded to the efibre package last May. At the time we had no idea nor were we told that we would be entering an 18 month contract. I tried to switch to UPC last week but eircom are trying to hit us with €90 phone and €150 broadband cancellation fees. They have no record of me signing anything nor do they have the phone call recording of me agreeing to a new contract.

Do I have a leg to stand on to dispute the 18 month efibre contract 'migration'?

:mad:

OneEightSeven

If it's possible for you to stick with Eircom for the next 5 months, I would do it.

James_R

Really? arrgghh

I wonder if I could cancel the UPC package and use the eircom one for 5 months (they might have a 30 day grace period or something?).

OneEightSeven

How long ago did you sign up to UPC? They might have a cooling down period. If so, you can cancel it.

James_R

OneEightSeven wrote: »

How long ago did you sign up to UPC? They might have a cooling down period. If so, you can cancel it.

I think it was the 27th of May.

OneEightSeven

James_R wrote: »

I think it was the 27th of May.

Probably too late. It's usually 7 days.

James_R

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Probably too late. It's usually 7 days.

Noooooo, I'll have to get back on to eircom so.

_Whimsical_

I'm not sure but I don't think UPC can hit you up for charges in this instance so you should be able to cancel with them without incurring penalties.
I think!
You could ask on the UPC forum on boards.

James_R

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I'm not sure but I don't think UPC can hit you up for charges in this instance so you should be able to cancel with them without incurring penalties.
I think!
You could ask on the UPC forum on boards.

Why is that? Because we didn't know our eircom contract had been migrated?

James_R

Surely if I wasn't informed about the new contract, not issued this contract in writing and they've no phone record of me agreeing to any new contract, then it should be void?!

dxhound2005

James_R wrote: »

Surely if I wasn't informed about the new contract, not issued this contract in writing and they've no phone record of me agreeing to any new contract, then it should be void?!

Even more surely that is an issue which would have to be tested in court if you decide to break the contract. But putting on my amateur lawyer hat I would say the counter argument would be that a customer should inform themselves about what they are buying. In the case of Eircom they could point to the prominent position which is given to the 18 Month Contract on their website.

https://www.eircom.net/broadband/productDetails?id=bu_23

In my own case I was aware of it but I was told on the phone. They also tried to make me go to Direct Debit but I resisted. I am surprised to hear than no details of the service were given to you when you agreed to have it installed.

James_R

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Even more surely that is an issue which would have to be tested in court if you decide to break the contract. But putting on my amateur lawyer hat I would say the counter argument would be that a customer should inform themselves about what they are buying. In the case of Eircom they could point to the prominent position which is given to the 18 Month Contract on their website.

https://www.eircom.net/broadband/productDetails?id=bu_23

In my own case I was aware of it but I was told on the phone. They also tried to make me go to Direct Debit but I resisted. I am surprised to hear than no details of the service were given to you when you agreed to have it installed.

At the time we already had broadband and phone from eircom but had received a couple of letters in the post about the new service coming to our area. I THINK I then registered interest online but really don't remember calling them but I very well could have to enquire about when it would be installed. I most definitely wouldn't have agreed to any new contract extension. Reason being I knew UPC were also a short while away from having broadband available on our road.

_Whimsical_

The same happened to me in the past. Someone from eircom rang and offered a free upgrade on my service. I said yes, naturally, and found myself in a new eighteen month contract. Now I always make a point of asking if any upgrade or free service I'm offered by them entails starting a new contract and invariably I find they don't offer this information themselves. It's a shoddy way to do business. Actually last week the consumer show featured someone who thought their contact was up and joined upc to find they'd have get out of contact fees from
eircom. Immediately they cancelled their upc contact and went back to eircom. There was only a month or two left on their contact but by cancelling upc and staying with eircom, eircom took the opportunity to lock then into another 18 month contract without telling them.
So you aren't alone, it does happen.

I think you should contact either the consumer association and comreg to find out where you stand with upc. Usually when you switch over the new company takes it upon itself to inform the old company your leaving. That's why is think there might be some regulation ensuring customers aren't sold contacts that overlap. I don't know though, but I'd imagine this might be the case. You should contact someone in those associations for definitive advice though.

colm_mcm

^
The example on the consumer show was vodafone and eircom
Ie Vodafone contacting and telling the customer that their eircom contract was up and to change to them. Customer was still in contract with eircom.

dub45

No provider should enter you into a new contract without telling you upfront and getting your agreement. If a provider claims that you are in a contract then they should be able to show you the proof that you were aware that you were entering a new contact and agreed to it. (incidentally there is no point in looking for a "written" contract few very people are signed up that way now)

In any contract there has to be offer and acceptance. Have a look here for a general guide:

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/contract.html

It baffles me that providers do not automatically confirm all changes to accounts/contracts by email immediately after the change has been effected. It is a much in their own interests as those of the customer.

dub45

James_R wrote: »

At the time we already had broadband and phone from eircom but had received a couple of letters in the post about the new service coming to our area. I THINK I then registered interest online but really don't remember calling them but I very well could have to enquire about when it would be installed. I most definitely wouldn't have agreed to any new contract extension. Reason being I knew UPC were also a short while away from having broadband available on our road.

Have you asked Eircom how and when you agreed to the new contract and if over the phone have you requested a transcript of the phone call? "Thinking" is irrelevant you have to establish exactly what happened and how the contract came about.

dxhound2005

dub45 wrote: »

Have you asked Eircom how and when you agreed to the new contract and if over the phone have you requested a transcript of the phone call? "Thinking" is irrelevant you have to establish exactly what happened and how the contract came about.

OP stated in the first post that no records exist.

They have no record of me signing anything nor do they have the phone call recording of me agreeing to a new contract.

dub45

dxhound2005 wrote: »

OP stated in the first post that no records exist.

They have no record of me signing anything nor do they have the phone call recording of me agreeing to a new contract.

So have you formally asked them to prove that you are in a contract and when and how you entered it?

Bog Standard User

call and get a copy of the phone call recorded when you signed up for efibre...

James_R

dub45 wrote: »

So have you formally asked them to prove that you are in a contract and when and how you entered it?

Was away for a few days, home now and going to tackle this issue tomorrow. I asked over the phone if they had a copy of the phone call where I agree to the contract. The support guy said

That phone call was over a year ago so I don't think they'd be able to find it. I spoke to the team there and they said that there's no way you'd have been able to get the efibre package without them letting you know that you were entering into a new 18 months contract, it just doesn't work that way.

Interestingly enough I came across this:
http://www.consumerhelp.ie/services-contracts

Entering into a contract over the phone
You can enter into contracts for many kinds of services over the phone. This type of contract is as valid and binding as a written one. However, the supplier of the service must make it clear to you that you are forming a contract over the phone with them, and that they will keep a record that you agree to this.

The rules on how contracts are made over the phone are set out in the Consumer Rights Directive. These rules say that the supplier must give you certain information about the contract, including details about the provider, the costs and the minimum length of the contract, as well as any terms and conditions.

The supplier must give you this information either in writing, or have it available in another form, like a recording of the phone call. If they don’t, then the contract cannot be enforced. This is one of the reasons why some companies tell you they may record your call with them. you are also entitled to access to this recording in case of a dispute.

Some suppliers may send the information to you, either in writing or by email. But companies are not obliged to send you the contract in writing. It is enough for them to keep a recording of the telephone conversation in case there is a dispute.

There may be many different terms and conditions in the contract which the company must make you aware of. However, it might not be practical to do this over the phone. In this case, many companies will send these terms and conditions to you in writing or by email.

To make sure both you and the supplier are agreeing to the same thing in a contract, you should ask for a copy of your terms and conditions and read them when they arrive.

- See more at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/services-contracts#sthash.i03GycQc.dpuf

James_R

Called consumerhelp.ie this morning. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and suggested that I request the recorded call (a data protection request) to remove any ambiguity. If the phone record resolves the situation he told me that a complaint could be registered with Comreg regarding how the situation was dealt with and how I was not made fully aware of the new contract being entered before the service was put in place.

Just got off the phone with eircom customer support. He couldn't find a copy of the call so thinks I may have filled out an online form (which I vaguely remember doing and it not working) so he's created a case that will be looked into over the next ten working days.

dub45

James_R wrote: »

Called consumerhelp.ie this morning. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and suggested that I request the recorded call (a data protection request) to remove any ambiguity. If the phone record resolves the situation he told me that a complaint could be registered with Comreg regarding how the situation was dealt with and how I was not made fully aware of the new contract being entered before the service was put in place.

Just got off the phone with eircom customer support. He couldn't find a copy of the call so thinks I may have filled out an online form (which I vaguely remember doing and it not working) so he's created a case that will be looked into over the next ten working days.

Telling customers that you "must have, should have, would have" or similar waffle doesn't count for anything and is really disgracefully unprofessional. If a company tells a customer they are in a contract then they have to show proof.

James_R

Update:

I received a voicemail last Saturday to tell me that any contract that was on my account had been waived and I'll be refunded the last bill containing phone contract cancellation charge and months broadband. I've since called up and also cancelled the broadband. I'm happy enough with how everything worked out, but you'd wonder how many more people opted into a new contract unaware.

Thanks for all the help on here people.

dub45

Thanks for the update it is always nice to know how these cases turn out. as you say it makes you wonder though how many isps manage to intimidate customers into paying up in such circumstances.

There really is a need to put a much more robust process in place for all isps whereby new contracts or extensions to contracts have to be confirmed in writing

James_R

Thought it might worth mentioning that this hasn't been resolved. I'm still receiving Eircom bills detailing that my account is in credit. There was a phantom cheque in the post about six weeks ago but I just found out that the cheque was never sent and my case needs to be re-opened...