Tuam, home babies, and unmarked graves

Elektronske

What did you people, your generation, do about it ?

degsie

Elektronske wrote: »

What did you people, your generation, do about it ?

Please expand.

Elektronske

You are the ones that knew and experience it, seen the attitudes and lived then, so what did you do ?

looksee

That's a rather aggressive way of putting the question Elekronske, but it has validity. I cannot answer for the Tuam or any of the other scandals, because I was not here until the mid 70's, which is not to say that there were not other things going on in other places that society allowed to happen.

One thing to remember is that it is the people of 'our generation' who were the victims as well as the enablers of scandals. Also remember that there is no doubt that in years to come your grandchildren will turn to you and say 'why did you allow it to happen' about things (unspecified because we are not entirely aware of them at the moment, and society accepts them) that are happening now.

I will leave this open for now, but bearing in mind the above, lets keep it civil.

Elektronske

I'm am not very good at english, i just want to know why these things from the older people that were there and what they did, and why not, and what attitude did you have then and why. Some of you were there then, only you can shed real light on this and why.

dizzymiss

Im not an 'oulwan' (born in the 80's) but this is something I wonder. I spoke to my mum (born inearly 40's) and she reminded me that people were afraid of the church, afraid of authority figures. These were not people you messed with. Also, the what other people think mindset was very much an issue. Now not everyone was like that but I imagine most were.

I remember years ago when I was a teenager, talking to a friends mum. She grew up behind the Magdelagne (sp?) Laundry in Galway during the late 40's/50's. Her older sisters and other local women used to help girls escape through an old service tunnel into the laundry. This was done at great risk to themselves. She even brought us down and showed us where it was. By this time it was all boarded up/ramshackled. So not everyone ignored it.

Elektronske

dizzymiss wrote: »

So not everyone ignored it.

What did they do about it then ? Not doing anything about it is ignoring it.

bumper234

Elektronske wrote: »

What did they do about it then ? Not doing anything about it is ignoring it.

What could they do? Before you ask this question you need to understand the ABSOLUTE power that the church held in Ireland! If the priest decided to say something bad against you at Sunday mass then that was you basically ****ed, the people who.were your friends suddenly abandoned you, neighbours and even family would shun you on the streets. You wouldn't even have a job if the priest decided to have a word with your employer.

looksee

Elektronske, I am getting the feeling you do not want to so much have a discussion about a social issue as throw around inflammatory comments.

Please keep discussion reasoned and civil.

dizzymiss

Elektronske wrote: »

What did they do about it then ? Not doing anything about it is ignoring it.

I just told you. Young women in their late teens, early twenties helped some of these young women escape the laundry. Although not much, I do see that as doing something, albeit small. They helped those girls to a better life. One of the girls returned later (sometime in the late 80's I think) to find the women that helped her. She had gone on to London where she became a nurse, married and had a family. Had a happy life, forever thankful to those that helped her.

A group of young women were never going to change the world but I think what they did for those few is something in itself.

Elektronske

Then how come it went on, and all your county councillors, doctors, public servants, and authorities were all rubber stamping it ?

muffler

Elektronske wrote: »

Then how come it went on, and all your county councillors, doctors, public servants, and authorities were all rubber stamping it ?

Maybe your time would be better spent visiting those councilors, doctors, public servants etc and asking them personally rather than waving / displaying an aggressive finger of blame at those who contribute to this forum.

degsie

Why was there Apartheid?, why the Holocaust?, why slavery? A lot of crappy things happened in the past, but we have all learned as a society and moved on (mostly).

Elektronske

muffler wrote: »

Maybe your time would be better spent visiting those councilors, doctors, public servants etc and asking them personally rather than waving / displaying an aggressive finger of blame at those who contribute to this forum.

This is a public discussion forum, not a sweep it under the carpet and keep it out of public forum

PLUG71

Elektronske wrote: »

This is a public discussion forum, not a sweep it under the carpet and keep it out of public forum

As was said already you dont seem to grasp the power of the church back then!

People would walk over hot coal rather than go against the church!!

It is really not hard to grasp.

Lucy and Harry

The government are also to blame for this happening as they are responsible for the well being of children in the state.Why did our children have to use Catholic schools with nuns and Christian brothers.It was because the state did not build schools.Kids would be in hedge schools if not for these religious orders.We still allow our children go to these brainwashing schools.Religion should not be forced upon kids as young as 5.That is the only way to take the power away from this Catholic church that sells babies and molests and rapes kids and covers it up and allows British companies to inject drugs into our children and babies to see what happens to them.

The people back then were afraid of the church and also so innocent they did not believe the Church could do these things.Now we know better it is time to leave this bronze age religion in the past.

Eeden

I think that in all honesty, back in those days premarital sex was such a terrible thing that people who were seen as sinners were in a way dehumanised. They were "bad people", and therefore didn't deserve to be treated with compassion.

These attitudes still abound, although in a different way. Just look at some of the threads in AH, for example, and the way people speak of anyone who is in receipt of social welfare of any kind - they are called scum, scroungers, and worse. These are also "bad people". They don't even deserve the little that they do get.

Junkies and criminals are also thought of in the same way - as somehow sub-human. Sure, criminals do dreadful things, but that doesn't mean they deserve to be treated with out-and-out cruelty.

I think in years to come we will feel the same horror at how asylum seekers are being treated here right now. But so many people have the attitude that they just shouldn't be here, they've done something underhanded to get here, they are scroungers, (i.e. they are "bad people") therefore they don't deserve justice or to be treated with compassion.

bumper234

Elektronske wrote: »

Then how come it went on, and all your county councillors, doctors, public servants, and authorities were all rubber stamping it ?

What did your parents do about it? How about your grandparents? Did your aunts and uncles storm the walls of these institutions to help free the poor unfortunates trapped inside? Do tell.

Elektronske

bumper234 wrote: »

What did your parents do about it? How about your grandparents? Did your aunts and uncles storm the walls of these institutions to help free the poor unfortunates trapped inside? Do tell.

I am not from this country, try again, I would like to understand why they did nothing, but it seems there are no real older people here on this thread at all, just the usual diversions and cover up mentality.

bumper234

Elektronske wrote: »

I am not from this country, try again, I would like to understand why they did nothing, but it seems there are no real older people here on this thread at all, just the usual diversions and cover up mentality.

But according to you ignorance is not a defence, just because they didn't live here doesn't mean they shouldn't have helped.

You see how silly your argumentative posting sounds now?

degsie

Touch of gerontophobia from OP. Time to close this one...

OldGoat

Elektronske wrote: »

I am not from this country, try again, I would like to understand why they did nothing, but it seems there are no real older people here on this thread at all, just the usual diversions and cover up mentality.

Thread closed.
You were asked to keep the discussion civil and you failed. You cast accusations without any thought.
A pity really, thread had the makings of a good discussion.