Government to assist landlords in increasing rising rents

Zamboni

The Irish Government will fund more money to private landlords and assist in increasing private rents for all non-RA tenants.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/622985-new-rent-supplement-plan-to-prevent-homelessness/

This is done under the guise that "homelessness" is the only option for RA tenants when in fact they could easily move to a cheaper location.

People will argue that RA tenants should not be "displaced" because of family, children, schools etc.

Nobody ever seems to afford private tenants this "displaced" argument when private rents rise and private tenants have no choice but to move the a cheaper location.

gussieg

Zamboni wrote: »

The Irish Government will fund more money to private landlords and assist in increasing private rents for all non-RA tenants.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/622985-new-rent-supplement-plan-to-prevent-homelessness/

This is done under the guise that "homelessness" is the only option for RA tenants when in fact they could easily move to a cheaper location.

People will argue that RA tenants should not be "displaced" because of family, children, schools etc.

Nobody ever seems to afford private tenants this "displaced" argument when private rents rise and private tenants have no choice but to move the a cheaper location.

This has altered my life quite considerably .
Over the past thirty odd years that i have been renting or living in rented accommodation and also local authority and housing trust and housing co-operative properties, it has been my experience that generally speaking landlords or whoever holds the title deeds (bits of paper) to said properties, is the momentary winner and therefore he who pays the piper ,calls the tune. Yes they may have brought in legislation to bring things in line with a changing world consciousness that we are all just tenants on this planet and therefore do not have automatic rights over land or even each other, but it is what it is, and as it stands i have been constructively and destructively relocated time and again, due to differences of opinion .
This has caused no end of upset. Trauma and even abuse in my family, pretty much in some cases destroyed any or most chances of peaceful happy living, because too many other people suffer from greed , jealousy, miserliness and nazism, and are thoroughly convinced they are God and therefore in a position of authority over who i talk to, have tea with, walk with, sleep with and ultimately live with.
I could be you. And i sometimes suffer from similar defects

Zamboni

gussieg wrote: »

This has altered my life quite considerably .
Over the past thirty odd years that i have been renting or living in rented accommodation and also local authority and housing trust and housing co-operative properties, it has been my experience that generally speaking landlords or whoever holds the title deeds (bits of paper) to said properties, is the momentary winner and therefore he who pays the piper ,calls the tune. Yes they may have brought in legislation to bring things in line with a changing world consciousness that we are all just tenants on this planet and therefore do not have automatic rights over land or even each other, but it is what it is, and as it stands i have been constructively and destructively relocated time and again, due to differences of opinion .
This has caused no end of upset. Trauma and even abuse in my family, pretty much in some cases destroyed any or most chances of peaceful happy living, because too many other people suffer from greed , jealousy, miserliness and nazism, and are thoroughly convinced they are God and therefore in a position of authority over who i talk to, have tea with, walk with, sleep with and ultimately live with.
I could be you. And i sometimes suffer from similar defects

Thanks for stopping by

_Kaiser_

gussieg wrote: »

This has altered my life quite considerably .
Over the past thirty odd years that i have been renting or living in rented accommodation and also local authority and housing trust and housing co-operative properties, it has been my experience that generally speaking landlords or whoever holds the title deeds (bits of paper) to said properties, is the momentary winner and therefore he who pays the piper ,calls the tune.

Yes they may have brought in legislation to bring things in line with a changing world consciousness that we are all just tenants on this planet and therefore do not have automatic rights over land or even each other, but it is what it is, and as it stands i have been constructively and destructively relocated time and again, due to differences of opinion .

This has caused no end of upset. Trauma and even abuse in my family, pretty much in some cases destroyed any or most chances of peaceful happy living, because too many other people suffer from greed , jealousy, miserliness and nazism, and are thoroughly convinced they are God and therefore in a position of authority over who i talk to, have tea with, walk with, sleep with and ultimately live with.
I could be you. And i sometimes suffer from similar defects

Nope.. paragraphing doesn't help.

Rights over land and each other? Authority over who you walk and sleep with? Nazi-ism???

I'm assuming this is some sort of Freeman stuff??


Anyway...

All I can see this doing is forcing rents still higher for those of us not on RA. Why can recipients not just move to somewhere cheaper? If my landlord decided to jack up the rent that'd be my option. Why should welfare beneficiaries be different?

The_Conductor

gussieg wrote: »

This has altered my life quite considerably .
Over the past thirty odd years that i have been renting or living in rented accommodation and also local authority and housing trust and housing co-operative properties, it has been my experience that generally speaking landlords or whoever holds the title deeds (bits of paper) to said properties, is the momentary winner and therefore he who pays the piper ,calls the tune. Yes they may have brought in legislation to bring things in line with a changing world consciousness that we are all just tenants on this planet and therefore do not have automatic rights over land or even each other, but it is what it is, and as it stands i have been constructively and destructively relocated time and again, due to differences of opinion .
This has caused no end of upset. Trauma and even abuse in my family, pretty much in some cases destroyed any or most chances of peaceful happy living, because too many other people suffer from greed , jealousy, miserliness and nazism, and are thoroughly convinced they are God and therefore in a position of authority over who i talk to, have tea with, walk with, sleep with and ultimately live with.
I could be you. And i sometimes suffer from similar defects

Have I got this right- you are arguing that people who are in receipt of social housing and/or assistance towards renting private residential accommodation- should be treated in a more favourable manner than private people who are paying their own rent from their own resources?

What the hell is throwing the 'Nazi' slur around supposed to achieve, or further your argument?

As for- 'I could be you. And i sometimes suffer from similar defects'- thats almost a haiku, or a smidgen of philosophy with a portion of metaphysics.

I genuinely don't know what you're hoping to achieve with your commentary- or indeed, how it is relevant to opening post- which is detailing a new government initiative..........

murphaph

The new initiative seems fairly pointless. They talk of a 13 week period of extra payment after which what happens? Just playing politics really...either they leave the levels where they are (and provide support in relocating people on RS to lower demand, cheaper areas) or they up the rates to allow them to stay in Dublin OR they totally overhaul the RAS system so that it so fully protects the landlord against delinquent tenants up to several times the normal deposit rates, that they can get away with offering slightly below market rates. As it stands landlords have no real reason to take anyone on RS (in Dublin).

Banning the bedsits was a really stupid thing to do. There is a need (as we see now) for CHEAP basic accommodation. Bedsits at least provided this.

Muahahaha

I agree with the OP, the private renter gets shafted every time. Personally I'd rent my whole life and wouldn't have an issue with it. But the rules of the game mean that this is not an attractive option. Neither is buying to me in some respects but it is more attractive to renting mainly because of how the rental market is structured to favour those who shout the loudest and use their childer as pawns to get cheap or free housing.

foggy_lad

It looks like they are giving an emergency payment for a number of weeks to enable those in need to relocate if required, presumably if someone needs this payment they are unable to find soomewhere within the locality and this will give the opportunity to look farther afield and those who don't relocate are no longer in need of housing or rent allowance.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/622985-new-rent-supplement-plan-to-prevent-homelessness/

One of the main parts of the plan is a pledge that extra money can be paid by the State to landlords for up to 13 weeks.

This payment will be made on the recommendation of Threshold to the Department of Social Protection and can be extended by a further 13 weeks if families still face becoming homeless.

punisher5112

When will people be held to account for their own actions or take a bit of responsibility.

I am renting I get nothing not even a little tax relief. I work pay huge tax, usc, levies, prsi and the rest and I had to move.

I have been renting since early 2011 and keep have to move further and further away and now have to commute a good distance to work.

The rents have increased so much even in this time I have been renting I just couldn't afford it.

One thing I find funny is the sense of entitlement which is one word I absolutely disgust.
I lived right beside where I worked then had to move with such high increases and now commute outside of Dublin.

I really hope something is changed and fast because it just seems the rich are getting richer and especially the ones with multiple properties not the accidental Landlords.

quadrifoglio verde

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Nope.. paragraphing doesn't help.

Rights over land and each other? Authority over who you walk and sleep with? Nazi-ism???

I'm assuming this is some sort of Freeman stuff??


Anyway...

All I can see this doing is forcing rents still higher for those of us not on RA. Why can recipients not just move to somewhere cheaper? If my landlord decided to jack up the rent that'd be my option. Why should welfare beneficiaries be different?

Would you not think of the poor children?

It's ridiculous. You work hard, you pay paye, prsi, USC and perhaps pension levies and you get shafted. Tough **** if your children go to school in Lucan and you can only afford to rent in trim.

You don't work, you don't pay paye, USC, prsi and you can get a never ending payment from the state, so your children can stay in kiliney.

murphaph

Time for a taxpayers' party?

Monife

I posted this story to my newsfeed with a few comments and the amount of abuse I got from long term dolers is unreal. I was told to get a grip, take a walk in their shoes and that I have nothing to worry about because I have a job.

Low to middle income workers are getting hit after hit. I think the dolers (long term that is, not the unfortunate people who lost their job from the recession) have got away scot free in the recession. The dole hasn't been reduced and prices of groceries etc have fallen. It sickens me.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Labor in government will do that. They've made enough enemies among their grassroots now that even the mention of a dole cut will be swiftly kicked to touch. The government will collapse before there's a cut if labor want any chance at all in the next ge. It should have been cut years ago.

The_Conductor

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Labor in government will do that. They've made enough enemies among their grassroots now that even the mention of a dole cut will be swiftly kicked to touch. The government will collapse before there's a cut if labor want any chance at all in the next ge. It should have been cut years ago.

They're actually the group least likely to vote (look at the statistics). The people who came out and voted in the local/EU elections- are the middle class who have managed to hold jobs and are getting squeezed left right and centre. Don't bet on Labour pandering to the unemployed- they know which side their bread is buttered on- and who they have to get back into the fold- the middle class working folk of the country who have deserted them in droves. Labour managed to sell itself to this group at the last election- however this group no longer feel represented by them.

Zamboni

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't bet on Labour pandering to the unemployed- they know which side their bread is buttered on- and who they have to get back into the fold- the middle class working folk of the country who have deserted them in droves. Labour managed to sell itself to this group at the last election- however this group no longer feel represented by them.

This group are represented by nobody.

_Kaiser_

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Would you not think of the poor children?

It's ridiculous. You work hard, you pay paye, prsi, USC and perhaps pension levies and you get shafted. Tough **** if your children go to school in Lucan and you can only afford to rent in trim.

You don't work, you don't pay paye, USC, prsi and you can get a never ending payment from the state, so your children can stay in kiliney.

For sure.. the way the majority of working people have been done over in the last 7 years is scandalous!

I have actually increased my gross pay in that time by about 12k through hard work and moving roles/promotions but net (after all these charges, taxes and tax credit changes) I figure I'm actually DOWN about 300 a month (net) at the minute from what I earned in 2006.

How ridiculous is it that a 10k pay rise can actually be worth only a few hundred extra a month and leave you LESS well off as a result. But of course, because I'm a regular single PAYE worker I get feck all from this State but pay for everything.

All hard work and doing things right gets you in this country is more exposure to being shafted at every turn. If emigration was an option for me I'd be long gone!

/rant

Mrs OBumble

Monife wrote: »

The dole hasn't been reduced

Ahh, yes it was. From E196 to E188. Or to approx E100 if you're under 25.

And the time of eligibility for non-means-tested JSB was reduced by 25% (12 months to 9 months).

Muahahaha

murphaph wrote: »

Time for a taxpayers' party?

There definitely is and if it was organised and looked out for the interests of the PAYE worker who is getting their pocket dipped left, right and centre then I reckon people would vote for it.

You know what I hated Michael McDowell and the PDs when they were in power. But in some ways I wish they were in power now, their tax and spend policies represented the working middles classes whereas the current lot just seem to pander to whoever shouts the loudest.

gaius c

Muahahaha wrote: »

There definitely is and if it was organised and looked out for the interests of the PAYE worker who is getting their pocket dipped left, right and centre then I reckon people would vote for it.

You know what I hated Michael McDowell and the PDs when they were in power. But in some ways I wish they were in power now, their tax and spend policies represented the working middles classes whereas the current lot just seem to pander to whoever shouts the loudest.

The thread is completely derailed by now so what the hell...
Would this be the same PD party that sat in government while spending was pushed through the roof and our health service was made even more inefficient than it already was?

No Pants

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, yes it was. From E196 to E188. Or to approx E100 if you're under 25.

It was actually €204 at one point before that, so it's come down further.

riclad

This refers to familys,
ie single people on ra won,t be covered by this scheme.
I think the problem is alot worse in dublin where there,s s shortgage of rental accomodation.

Zamboni

Muahahaha wrote: »

There definitely is and if it was organised and looked out for the interests of the PAYE worker who is getting their pocket dipped left, right and centre then I reckon people would vote for it.

Who would vote for the TPRA?
The Tax-paying Private Renters Association

An organisation that lobbies for:
A reduction of government interference in the residential property market
A reduction of government interference in the private rental market
No further increases in the Rent Allowance/Supplements schemes
The repossession and sale of all unsustainably mortgaged residential properties
The release of any held residential units by NAMA or any bank where the state is a shareholder

If I get 50 thanks I will establish it

Thargor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, yes it was. From E196 to E188. Or to approx E100 if you're under 25.

And the time of eligibility for non-means-tested JSB was reduced by 25% (12 months to 9 months).

No Pants wrote: »

It was actually €204 at one point before that, so it's come down further.

They cancelled the double dole payment at Christmas aswell so you can subtract another few Euro per week for the year from that aswell...

No Pants

Thargor wrote: »

They cancelled the double dole payment at Christmas aswell so you can subtract another few Euro per week for the year from that aswell...

It was gone before I lost my job in 2009, but you're right, it's another €4 a week.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Thargor wrote: »

They cancelled the double dole payment at Christmas aswell so you can subtract another few Euro per week for the year from that aswell...

Wish I got paid twice at Christmas.

No Pants

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Wish I got paid twice at Christmas.

Some places still do it. I don't work at one of those places either.

Thargor

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Wish I got paid twice at Christmas.

Oh I wasnt saying they should still get it, that kind of thing was just Fianna Fail buying votes in the good times, aggravating the poverty trap and piling on the deficit.

Bateman

So we've established that anyone posting comments about the dole not being reduced in the last few years doesn't actually have a rashers what they're talking about and can safely be ignored.

Jesus, some amount of hot air in this thread.

mikemac1

Thargor wrote: »

They cancelled the double dole payment at Christmas aswell so you can subtract another few Euro per week for the year from that aswell...

You had to be unemployed over 15 months to get the double payment at Christmas.

It wasn't for everyone

The_Conductor

Ok guys- we've meandered so far off the remit of this forum in this thread.
Back on-topic, or I'll be receiving notices from the hamsters to move the thread to State Benefits.........

professore

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, yes it was. From E196 to E188. Or to approx E100 if you're under 25.

And the time of eligibility for non-means-tested JSB was reduced by 25% (12 months to 9 months).

The JSB one affects working people landing on hard times, not long term unemployed.

ted1

Zamboni wrote: »

The Irish Government will fund more money to private landlords and assist in increasing private rents for all non-RA tenants.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/622985-new-rent-supplement-plan-to-prevent-homelessness/

This is done under the guise that "homelessness" is the only option for RA tenants when in fact they could easily move to a cheaper location.

People will argue that RA tenants should not be "displaced" because of family, children, schools etc.

Nobody ever seems to afford private tenants this "displaced" argument when private rents rise and private tenants have no choice but to move the a cheaper location.

Higher rents= less dysfunctional mortgages on investment properties= better positioning for banks = better for goverement

Zamboni

ted1 wrote: »

Higher rents= less dysfunctional mortgages on investment properties= better positioning for banks = better for goverement

Ted, we understand that. But - we don't agree with it.
The banks, the state, property investors and mortgage holders all benefit.
But it is the private tenant and the tax payer who is funding this sham.
Even a tenants only "out" as an FTB is gradually slipping away due to price increase and rents eroding the capacity to save for a house deposit.
And nobody is there to speak for them!

whiteandlight

I would Argue it's also shortsighted of the government. High rents push up wages and limit disposable income damaging the economy. Everytime my rent has gone up my discretionary spend has gone down

gussieg

No you have not got this right.
I also am NOT ON RENT ALLOWANCE, do not have dispensable or disposable income to speak of, every time i spend anything i am taking monies owed in different areas i.e. ESB, phone , medical or Dental expenses, as i ALSO DO NOT HAVE A MEDICAL CARD, maybe the meds would help who knows...
maybe my language or skills of communication with the majority is not perfect, but i know what i mean if you know what i mean,well done and if you don't, surely this is an open forum for people to express their opinions and this thread in particular is about the Government helping to increase private rents?
Therefore, It is NOT A GOOD THING. IN MY humble or not so OPINION.

Knob Longman

There's the right way, the wrong way and finally the Irish way. Tenants rights are a joke here.

Claw Hammer

Knob Longman wrote: »

There's the right way, the wrong way and finally the Irish way. Tenants rights are a joke here.

Not a joke for landlords who are fleeced by the PRTB.

Claw Hammer

whiteandlight wrote: »

I would Argue it's also shortsighted of the government. High rents push up wages and limit disposable income damaging the economy. Everytime my rent has gone up my discretionary spend has gone down

The landlord getting the higher rent is taxed on it and will also buy items which attract high VAT and ecise duties. It is win win for the government. They are going to make tenants pay for the recession.

The_Conductor

Knob Longman wrote: »

Tenants rights are a joke here.

Landlords rights are also laughable.
Neither party are best served by the system as it stands- and the system is wide open to abuse by both unscrupulous landlords and also tenants.

Tenants have had their deposits garnered on spurious grounds- to the extent that most tenants now demand that their landlord consider their deposit as the last month's rent.

Landlords have had such difficulty in evicting non-paying or otherwise troublesome tenants- that in some cases its taken up to 2 years to retrieve a property from a delinquent tenant.

Deposits- are widely insisted upon as a month's rent- when this has absolutely no bearing on the potential damage that might be caused to a property.

There is no independent body where these deposits can be lodged.

There is an expectation that property should be let furnished, but no cognisance of the additional costs associated with this.

I could go on and on. The system as it stands- is deeply flawed, open to abuse, and suits no-one. It doesn't pay to be a decent honest landlord or tenant- you're going to get fleeced by someone with less scruples than you.

By rights, we should start with a blank canvas, and start afresh.

_Kaiser_

The_Conductor wrote: »

By rights, we should start with a blank canvas, and start afresh.

In soo many ways where this country is concerned - but that's another topic.

It keeps coming back to what I've said repeatedly on this forum. Until renting is seen as a professional business transaction by ALL sides involved and not as the stepping stone to ownership or last option for the poor/less well off that it's currently viewed as, the rental sector will continue to be the Cowboy Country of negligent amateur landlords and delinquent tenants.

But alas, as our leaders and media are busy stoking the fire for Celtic Tiger 2, and the phrase "get on the property ladder" back in general use (including here on this very forum) I wouldn't expect any changes beyond minor tinkering around the edges or the deliberately vague and open legislation this country is so fond of such as the recent changes to the use of mobile phones when driving... bold if you're texting, emailing or calling without a hands-free but GRAND if you're on Facebook, Twitter or other apps! :rolleyes:

Until that changes, a lot of the well-meaning advice you read here, or quoting from the rule book, just doesn't apply in the real world as the rules only work when EVERYONE plays by them!

makeorbrake

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

It keeps coming back to what I've said repeatedly on this forum. Until renting is seen as a professional business transaction by ALL sides involved and not as the stepping stone to ownership or last option for the poor/less well off that it's currently viewed as, the rental sector will continue to be the Cowboy Country of negligent amateur landlords and delinquent tenants.

It keeps coming back to EFFECTIVE REGULATION for the benefit of tenant and landlord alike. This is what people (from both camps) should be lobbying for.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Until that changes, a lot of the well-meaning advice you read here, or quoting from the rule book, just doesn't apply in the real world as the rules only work when EVERYONE plays by them!

Rules work in the real world if they are legally binding and enforced in a timely manner. Again - see the above point. Both parties concerned need to lobby for effective regulation.

_Kaiser_

makeorbrake wrote: »

It keeps coming back to EFFECTIVE REGULATION for the benefit of tenant and landlord alike. This is what people (from both camps) should be lobbying for.


Rules work in the real world if they are legally binding and enforced in a timely manner. Again - see the above point. Both parties concerned need to lobby for effective regulation.

You must be joking - the private rental tenant has even less say in things than the ordinary taxpayer at this stage, but seeing as they generally fit both categories they get to pay for it twice (higher taxes + higher rents) while being subjected to the nonsense that goes on in the sector from both landlords and other tenants.

There is absolutely no appetite for effective regulation of the sector given those who would be responsible for driving such change have a vested interest in stoking another property bubble.

makeorbrake

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You must be joking - the private rental tenant has even less say in things than the ordinary taxpayer at this stage, but seeing as they generally fit both categories they get to pay for it twice (higher taxes + higher rents) while being subjected to the nonsense that goes on in the sector from both landlords and other tenants.

There is absolutely no appetite for effective regulation of the sector given those who would be responsible for driving such change have a vested interest in stoking another property bubble.

I think you misunderstand what I am referring to when I say "effective regulation". I don't mean interference in the market. I mean the PRTB doing what it's supposed to be - protecting both tenant and landlord equally - and acting swiftly.