Kuga Commercial 4 seater- Mad Stuff!!

Casati

Have you seen the Kuga Commercials- complete with full back seat but only 4 seat belts - glass rear windows - i.e just like a standard car but van tax and vat reclaimable??

Under what special ruling is this one working I wonder??

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/Kuga/4-SEAT-C/43713979052395200/advert?channel=CARS

(hope its okay to post link)

Dangel4x4

Crew cab?

The load area's not up to much is it? You'd have as much space in the back of a Fiesta van.

Casati

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

Crew cab?

The load area's not up to much is it? You'd have as much space in the back of a Fiesta van.

I'd say you'd have more load space in a Fiesta van!!

mickdw

Is there a major flaw in the regs for this to be legit. Surely all this class of vehicle can go the same way?

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

Is there a major flaw in the regs for this to be legit. Surely all this class of vehicle can go the same way?

Look, if the government want a multi tier nonsensical combination of BIK and motor tax systems, enterprising sorts will always find loopholes.

cabb8ge

Would commercial like this be under commercial BIK or car BIK rates? Is need to carry passengers for crewcab status applicable?

hi5

Discussion here also
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057194624

Mostly for VRT reasons as road tax will be €333 and Doe €111 per year

MuppetCheck

Revenue are ok with it, I know two people with them on order. Great when you can write off me cost.

R.O.R

cabb8ge wrote: »

Would commercial like this be under commercial BIK or car BIK rates? Is need to carry passengers for crewcab status applicable?

There is no commercial BIK rate. There is a Van BIK rate of 5% for vehicles that meet Revenue's definition of a Van - no seats or windows behind the driver (except rear window).

It's a clever exploitation of a new classification by Ford (and LandRover and Toyota and Mitsubishi, but Ford get extra credit on such a small vehicle).

European N1 commercial classification is to do with the seating area to load space ratio, and the rear aperature measurements. Ford very cleverly worked out that the Kuga meets N1 classification, if they "remove" the centre rear seat. Big benefit is that business's can reclaim all VAT on commercial vehicles, rather than just 20% of the VAT (in certain circumstances).

The motor tax classification is a bit of a grey area. I believe these can technically be taxed as a commercial at the €333 rate (as can the Disco Business, LandCruiser Business etc), but that means completing a "Goods only declaration", and essentially lying to the Revenue commission (quite a big no no).

If anyone has a 4/5 seat N1 "Jeep" Commercial, and never carries anything but goods, I'd be highly surprised. If stopped, with the family, on the way to do the weekly shopping in Tesco, with a €333 disc in the window, a very nasty surprise may await.

We may be ordering a Kuga 4 Seat Commercial and taxing it as Commercial, as it's to be used on a large construction site for security purposes. Will carry up to 4 people, but only on business use, and only on site. Likely that it will only leave site for fuel and servicing/maintenance, so in my opinion, that constitutes goods usage.

I supplied a Discovery Business last month, and that was taxed privately (engine size) as it's for getting to and from the office, and not used at all for carrying goods.

daveohdave

R.O.R wrote: »

If stopped, with the family, on the way to do the weekly shopping in Tesco, with a €333 disc in the window, a very nasty surprise may await

Has that ever actually happened, to anyone?

Casati

daveohdave wrote: »

Has that ever actually happened, to anyone?

Well its hard to see who would enforce this, I don't remember seeing a revenue checkpoint recently

I find this 4 seater Kuga really odd, the VRT saving isn't mega as its only got 139 co2, road tax of 333 isn't much different to a standard car version and the vat saving only really helps a company cash flow - i.e. when they trade the Kuga in 2 year they will have to charge VAT on it at that stage. Add to that the potential risk drivers face with revenue and the likely reduced resell value is it really worth it?

Now, if more interesting cars were to be turned into these crew cabs I could see the attraction- e.g E63 AMG Estate crew cab would be nice - just get Merc to remove the 2 rear seats and turn it into a 5 seater!

mountain

Casati wrote: »

Well its hard to see who would enforce this, I don't remember seeing a revenue checkpoint recently



Now, if more interesting cars were to be turned into these crew cabs I could see the attraction- e.g E63 AMG Estate crew cab would be nice - just get Merc to remove the 2 rear seats and turn it into a 5 seater!

I see revenue check points in west cork about once every 2 weeks, garda, revenue and welfare, join together for a checkpoint.

MuppetCheck

Casati wrote: »

Well its hard to see who would enforce this, I don't remember seeing a revenue checkpoint recently

I find this 4 seater Kuga really odd, the VRT saving isn't mega as its only got 139 co2, road tax of 333 isn't much different to a standard car version and the vat saving only really helps a company cash flow - i.e. when they trade the Kuga in 2 year they will have to charge VAT on it at that stage. Add to that the potential risk drivers face with revenue and the likely reduced resell value is it really worth it?

Now, if more interesting cars were to be turned into these crew cabs I could see the attraction- e.g E63 AMG Estate crew cab would be nice - just get Merc to remove the 2 rear seats and turn it into a 5 seater!

With the recent revenue clamp down on self employed people claiming expenses these are the answer. Car vans or this which can also moonlight as a family car when needed. In most cases that's why they will be bought instead of the van anyway so that it can be used to ferry the kids too. So you can offset the cost and fuel it cheaper.

The people I know getting them are both moving from diesel cars and were freshly audited...

TrailerBob

It's definitely for tax purposes and VRT, certainly not for the carrying capacity. My OH has a Kuga, and it will take 2 big-ish suitcases in the boot......that's it.. and people complained about Range Rover sport commercials!

cabb8ge

MuppetCheck wrote: »

With the recent revenue clamp down on self employed people claiming expenses these are the answer. Car vans or this which can also moonlight as a family car when needed. In most cases that's why they will be bought instead of the van anyway so that it can be used to ferry the kids too. So you can offset the cost and fuel it cheaper.

The people I know getting them are both moving from diesel cars and were freshly audited...

From BIK point of view how would commercial Kuga be viewed? As a van?

MuppetCheck

cabb8ge wrote: »

From BIK point of view how would commercial Kuga be viewed? As a van?

I believe so yes. The two getting them were originally going for something else (Hyundai i30s I think).

R.O.R

cabb8ge wrote: »

From BIK point of view how would commercial Kuga be viewed? As a van?

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I believe so yes. The two getting them were originally going for something else (Hyundai i30s I think).

They are going to be disappointed.

R.O.R wrote: »

There is no commercial BIK rate. There is a Van BIK rate of 5% for vehicles that meet Revenue's definition of a Van - no seats or windows behind the driver (except rear window).

bmwguy

Even allowing for the reclaimation of VAT that is one of the most overpriced things I have ever seen

John Ivory

It's a clever exploitation of a new classification by Ford (and LandRover and Toyota and Mitsubishi, but Ford get extra credit on such a small vehicle).

European N1 commercial classification is to do with the seating area to load space ratio, and the rear aperature measurements. Ford very cleverly worked out that the Kuga meets N1 classification, if they "remove" the centre rear seat. Big benefit is that business's can reclaim all VAT on commercial vehicles, rather than just 20% of the VAT (in certain circumstances).

The motor tax classification is a bit of a grey area. I believe these can technically be taxed as a commercial at the €333 rate (as can the Disco Business, LandCruiser Business etc), but that means completing a "Goods only declaration", and essentially lying to the Revenue commission (quite a big no no).

If anyone has a 4/5 seat N1 "Jeep" Commercial, and never carries anything but goods, I'd be highly surprised. If stopped, with the family, on the way to do the weekly shopping in Tesco, with a €333 disc in the window, a very nasty surprise may await.

We may be ordering a Kuga 4 Seat Commercial and taxing it as Commercial, as it's to be used on a large construction site for security purposes. Will carry up to 4 people, but only on business use, and only on site. Likely that it will only leave site for fuel and servicing/maintenance, so in my opinion, that constitutes goods usage.

I supplied a Discovery Business last month, and that was taxed privately (engine size) as it's for getting to and from the office, and not used at all for carrying goods.

I came across a "Vauxhall combo crew cab". This is a UK import with 5 seats and taxed as commercial. I think it would be ideal for bringing staff around (we normally use 2 vans with 2 seats to do the same journey).

Big boot left behind seats. You can check "Vauxhall Crewcab" on Donedeal and see pictures

vibe666

It annoys me that the kuga qualifies, but the full fat range rover doesn't.

I'd love an N1 commercial supercharged 4.2L V8 Vogue SE with an LPG conversion. It would be the perfect motor for running cost/comfort/performance ratio imho.

Fizzy bear

How much vat can you get back if you purchase a ford kuga 4 seater comercial. The vrt rates always confuse me

Justice for the individual

Fizzy bear wrote: »

How much vat can you get back if you purchase a ford kuga 4 seater comercial. The vrt rates always confuse me

If vat registered, you can reclaim the vat content of 23% on the full value.

If you tax as commercial, the insurance company insist you only use for own goods only, leaving you open to loss if you are carrying a customer's goods. If you rarely carry customers goods, the insurance company should be able to devise a pricing method to meet this eventuality.

If you tax as commercial, they will not allow you to use for personal use!

If you tax as commercial, the insurance companies will insist that you cannot insure it as private!

I know a tradesman, who had jeep commercial, taxed as commercial, lost his job, and then when he went in to tax the jeep, they tax authorities would not allow him the commercial tax rate - why?

If, for example, a tradesman drives a commercial jeep, goes out of business, can he then register for personal use for insurance purposes?

Or if taxed as for private use, loses his job, can it be taxed as commercial, even though it will now be used for private purposes?

- confused?

This whole area must be cleaned up and made more transparent, as the motor tax authorities and insurance companies are toying with people as to which method gains the most revenue for them, for example: tax as commercial (lower rate) and then this will attract more insurance; tax as private(higher rate) and this should result in lower insurance.

On the other hand, people try to see which system suits them best.

How can you say that if a Kuga Commercial is stopped by either the Revenue of Gardai, containing 4 people, even if family members, and they say they are on company business, how can this be disputed?

To cut out all of this, any vat registered person buying a commercial-classed vehicle should be allowed to reclaim the vat regardless and allowed to tax and insure it according to their needs.

Transparency all round is badly needed as the main issue is insurance cover in the event of goods stolen or damage to people or property.

andrewdeerpark

Sales guy in Main Ford dealer said this scheme is ending on 31st March 2018 can anyone confirm this is the case with possible supporting web links, I am not sure?

zapata

Justice for the individual wrote: »

How can you say that if a Kuga Commercial is stopped by either the Revenue of Gardai, containing 4 people, even if family members, and they say they are on company business, how can this be disputed?

Eh, if the 2 in the back are strapped into child seats and watchin Peppa Pig on the headrest screens....:rolleyes:

biko

3 year old thread lock.
Please start new thread.