Car from dealer has finance outstanding.

The_Nipper_One

Hey guys, just looking for a bit of advice here.

I'm about to buy a car on Saturday, but having done a check I've discovered that the car is the subject of a finance agreement. I called the dealer, and he said it would be cleared in the next day or two. I said that this would be no problem provided that he could provide definitive proof that the agreement has been cleared on Saturday when I come to pick it up.

So what should I look for to take as "definitive proof", and if I call whatever company arranged it, will they be able to tell me if it has outstanding finance still?

Should something like this be a deal breaker?
As long as he can prove to me that it is finished, do I have anything to worry about?

I asked the dealer how much was remaining on the agreement, and it is actually 200 more than I will be paying for the car (Though before haggling, the amount remaining was the asking price of the car.)

Do you think he himself was stung with it and is just looking to break even now?

coylemj

If this is a dealer operating out of a portakabin then you should have nothing to do with that car or any other car he is selling. You had to pay money to obtain information that he withheld from you. Even if he produced a letter from a specific finance house, I wouldn't accept it as proof.

Based on the numbers, the car is in negative equity so what's he doing with it in the first place?

If it's a main dealer than tell him you want an original letter from the finance house quoting the registration number and stating that the debt has been cleared.

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Do you think he himself was stung with it and is just looking to break even now?

If that's what happened then he's an idiot and it's another reason you should have nothing to do with him.

Dangel4x4

If it's got finance outstanding, it's owned by the finance company.

You can run a finance check with HPI to find out if any car has finance outstanding:

www. hpifirst.ie/hpi/

If your gut feeling is that the seller can't be trusted, walk away.

MuppetCheck

There can be an overlap between the car being taken into stock and the finance being settled, and indeed the motorcheck results showing up as finance clear.

Find out who the finance is with if at all possible and try get a letter confirming it is cleared from the dealer. Then call the finance company to be sure. It happened me with a car in the past, there was finance owed when I ran a check but the dealer simply hadn't it in stock that long and the cheque hadn't gone out to the finance company. It just meant that I had to wait a couple of days before handing money over to be sure.

Henry Ford III

If you get written confirmation from the finance house that the finance is repaid I wouldn't worry further.

Don't rely on someone's say so however.

coylemj

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If you get written confirmation from the finance house that the finance is repaid I wouldn't worry further.

Don't rely on someone's say so however.

It's long time since I did a check - does motorcheck and the rest of them actually tell you the name of the finance house?

I don't recall that I got either the bank's name or the amount outstanding so I'm wondering how you can tell that the letter you get is genuine?

The_Nipper_One

coylemj wrote: »

It's long time since I did a check - does motorcheck and the rest of them actually tell you the name of the finance house?

I don't recall that I got either the bank's name or the amount outstanding so I'm wondering how you can tell that the letter you get is genuine?

Nah, it doesn't give you any names, with cartell anyway. I've just been told that the car is the subject of one, and nothing more.

I know some people are saying not to buy, but provided I can confirm that it is paid off on Saturday, I don't see a reason why I shouldn't.

If I call the company it was done with and give a license plate number, they will be able to confirm it for me yes? They won't give me any sort of "we can't tell you because it's not your car", lines?

Zulu

Walk. Away.

MuppetCheck

coylemj wrote: »

It's long time since I did a check - does motorcheck and the rest of them actually tell you the name of the finance house?

I don't recall that I got either the bank's name or the amount outstanding so I'm wondering how you can tell that the letter you get is genuine?

No, but if the dealer is genuine they will tell you out straight. Calling them with a reg and asking nicely can help. They were able to confirm to me (in writing) at the time when I mentioned I would be purchasing it. They were my own bank too so maybe that helped.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

I don't recall that I got either the bank's name or the amount outstanding so I'm wondering how you can tell that the letter you get is genuine?

When you get the letter Google the finance company and ask has it been cleared, obviously can only do this during business hours. If the dealer is legit they'll have no problem suppling this early or waiting a few days for you to confirm the finance is cleared, if they don't walk.

R.O.R

It's possibly under asset stocking - that shows as finance on credit checks. Dealers use outside finance houses to pay for the vehicles they have in stock - helps with cashflow.

loveisdivine

Its quite common for this to happen. Finance companies are absolute nightmares for taking cars off HPI. I can have a car thats had its settlement paid for months and they still haven't removed it, even after numerous phone calls.

Its not that there is something dodgy with the car, its just people being extremely slow with the admin side of things.

HP companies also don't like sending emails confirming its clear, they wont send them to us dealers let alone a customer. Only occasionally if you speak to a really helpful person will they agree to do it.

The_Nipper_One

So I take it that the right thing to do is just make sure that it is cleared before buying.

The dealer has been under the same name/place for the last 10 years, so I assume that's a mark in his favor. And, it is operating out of a full on premises, it's not just some guys back yard.

coylemj

loveisdivine wrote: »

HP companies also don't like sending emails confirming its clear, they wont send them to us dealers let alone a customer. Only occasionally if you speak to a really helpful person will they agree to do it.

I'm not doubting what you're saying but surely they have an incentive to give the dealer or the customer a piece of paper saying the loan has been cleared?

Like, the dealer says to them: 'the punter wants a piece of paper saying the loan is cleared, otherwise I can't shift this motor and you're not getting your money.'

The_Nipper_One

Just spoke to the dealer again, he said it should be done by Thursday and that he will contact me then. That gives me all of Friday to check it up. Assuming I can confirm it on friday I should be good to go?

R1_Pete

coylemj wrote: »

If this is a dealer operating out of a portakabin then you should have nothing to do with that car or any other car he is selling. You had to pay money to obtain information that he withheld from you. Even if he produced a letter from a specific finance house, I wouldn't accept it as proof.

Based on the numbers, the car is in negative equity so what's he doing with it in the first place?

If it's a main dealer than tell him you want an original letter from the finance house quoting the registration number and stating that the debt has been cleared.



If that's what happened then he's an idiot and it's another reason you should have nothing to do with him.

Be very careful. Unless he. An prove its cleared then I would walk away. There are no end of cars out there, no point taking on someone else's woes or risk.

A good mate bought a car about three years ago, never even check this.. Almost two years later he got a letter from a finance house looking for "their" car back. Dealer was gone busy since. Was a nightmare

Alun

R.O.R wrote: »

It's possibly under asset stocking - that shows as finance on credit checks. Dealers use outside finance houses to pay for the vehicles they have in stock - helps with cashflow.

My current car, bought from a large, multi-showroom, Dublin based main dealer, showed up as this too, for the same reason.

dodzy

Zulu wrote: »

Walk. Away.

Crap. Advice.

Happens quite a lot. Normally resolved quickly enough when an interested party comes along.

The_Nipper_One

Thanks for the opinions guys. I'll update on thursday/friday to let you know how the follow up goes.

Zulu

dodzy wrote: »

Crap. Advice.

why take the risk? it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

why take the risk? it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

Theres no risk really. If the dealer can provide proof that the finance is paid then there is no issue. No reason to walk away from what could be an otherwise good car.

dodzy

Zulu wrote: »

...it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

True, but it might just be the one

MuppetCheck

Zulu wrote: »

why take the risk? it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

Well there is a shortage of good quality cars on the market actually. Dealers are even importing so that they have a stock.

Gumbo

Zulu wrote: »

it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

yes there is.

georgefalls

Zulu wrote: »

why take the risk? it's not like there's a shortage of cars on the market!

Might want a look here

http://www.carsireland.ie/blog/cars-for-sale-in-ireland/

djimi

georgefalls wrote: »

Might want a look here

http://www.carsireland.ie/blog/cars-for-sale-in-ireland/

Thats a three year old article in fairness...

georgefalls

djimi wrote: »

Thats a three year old article in fairness...

Oooops... I posted the wrong link... Try this one

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/price-of-used-cars-soars-2k-because-of-supply-shortage-30323467.html

coylemj

georgefalls wrote: »

Oooops... I posted the wrong link... Try this one

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/price-of-used-cars-soars-2k-because-of-supply-shortage-30323467.html

I'd always be sceptical about an article written by a motoring journalist and wrapped around 'research' published by someone in the trade.

It's the same with articles written by the paper's property correspondent for the same reason - newspapers rely on advertising so objectivity usually goes out the window and the spin put out by the trade people gets preference over proven facts, especially when it comes to the headline.

I recall an article a while back where motorcheck claimed that an outrageously high number of UK imports had a dodgy history - you can see the vested interest behind that propaganda.

the_syco

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

I know some people are saying not to buy, but provided I can confirm that it is paid off on Saturday, I don't see a reason why I shouldn't.

Reasons; you buy it, it gets taken from you legally, and you have no car and less money.

In saying that, if the dealer can prove it's taken care of in writing (with their signature on it), it should be okay.

I'd have my mechanic look over the car though. If the person didn't have the money to cover the finance, they may not have had the money for services, change of oil, etc.

The_Nipper_One

Here's my update:

Always do your checks! Just saved me god knows how much, for the price of 25 euro.

Dangel4x4

Always go with your gut.

So what did he say to you when you said to him the car had finance outstanding?

The_Nipper_One

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

Always go with your gut.

So what did he say to you when you said to him the car had finance outstanding?

He did the phone equivalent of a poker face and just said "ya". After looking for final confirmation before me picking it up tomorrow, he said that he found out that there is more owed on it than he thought and is now in contact with the previous owner. I'm now looking at other cars, told him to call me back if he manages to get it cleared. I'd say he'll just hold off until the next person comes along though.

Dangel4x4

Ya exactly, some other sucker will buy it without doing any checks.

The_Nipper_One

Just in case anyone else reads this thread in the future after doing a search:

This car was from an established dealer of 10 years, they were very cooperative up until the last day when I kept pushing the issue. They had the car in question in a prime display location out in the front of their garage. I had done a lot of research on this particular garage before buying, and had found nothing to suggest they had a history of things like this. The person I dealt with in the garage was very friendly and accommodating.

I'm only giving this bit of background so that someone doesn't assume I was meeting someone in a back alley. This was an established dealer who has about 45 well looking cars in stock. Just goes to show that no matter how well a place looks, you should only trust the verifiable facts you can uncover yourself.

dodzy

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

He did the phone equivalent of a poker face and just said "ya". After looking for final confirmation before me picking it up tomorrow, he said that he found out that there is more owed on it than he thought and is now in contact with the previous owner. I'm now looking at other cars, told him to call me back if he manages to get it cleared. I'd say he'll just hold off until the next person comes along though.

That's utter BS on dealers part. Definite grounds for walking away at this stage. Name and shame.



Apologies Zulu. I stand corrected Sir:o

goz83

Name and shame. His dishonesty cost you €25 and could have cost so much more.

The_Nipper_One

Manorfield Cars.

Will never deal with them again.

PLUG71

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Manorfield Cars.

Will never deal with them again.

Fair play The_Nipper_One

The_Nipper_One

I was in the area again today to look at another car, so just out of interest I drove by his place to see if the car is still out the front. It isn't.

This is the one for those interested.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is-is250-s-design-taxed-11-14-n/7050067

Thanks again for the opinions/advice everyone.

Dangel4x4

Ad description says CLEAR "CARTELL"VEHICLE HISTORY REPORT PROVIDED

Hmmm.

mickdw

They check all their cars with cartell!

The_Nipper_One

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

Ad description says CLEAR "CARTELL"VEHICLE HISTORY REPORT PROVIDED

Hmmm.

I go in to every viewing with the idea of doing my own should the car look ok at first inspection. For this reason, I never asked to see his... would like to go back in time and see what his would have said!

Also, he knew all along it was under finance, as he owned straight up to it when asked, but did not mention it before then.

Dangel4x4

Oh well, it's not there anymore anyway.

"De boyz" from the finance company probably came for it in the night.

ishotjr2

I am in the same situation myself now, gave him a very small deposit, then did the cartell. Sure enough "finance outstanding". Dealer says he will get it sorted. Ready to walk away, unfortunately cause I have been looking for one of these for ages. After reading this thread I will listen to what he has to say but wont be taking any chances.

Dealer has < 2 years trading history.