Osteopathy for Babies

Gordy6040

Hi All

I have 3 kids so not new to parenting, all of them have had reflux to some extent, so not new to that either..

I'm thinking of bringing my baby (1 month old) to an Osteopath to see if he/she can relieve the symptoms. Namely , trapped wind, pain, difficulty settling, the list frankly goes on.
Currently he's on an anticid perscribed by a paediatrician who specialises in these things.

Question is - have any of you guys used an Osteopath ?
What was your expirence?

Cheers
G

Soooky

Didn't go to an osteopath but we did bring our little one to a chiropractor. She has silent reflux and also cried all the time in her car seat. We had a difficult birth (basically she got stuck) and he picked up on this fact very quickly. He was very gentle with her and while her reflux isn't completely cured and she is still on meds, the difference in her temperament was very noticeable - much happier and content and able to go in her car seat no problem. Our little darling was obviously in a lot of discomfort so we are glad we brought our poor little darling to see this man. Hope this helps : )

Gordy6040

Thanks Sooky
I don't really expect the reflux to be cured. From what i understand only time will do that.
I'm after getting rid of the discomfort, chiropractor and an osteopath both use hands on and gentle manipulation so hopefully we'll get the same results.

Mink

My friend's baby got on very well with oesteo for colic like symptoms. Eased his discomfort as far as she told me.

I'd find one that comes highly recommended from people you trust, certified to deal with infants and so on. Same with chiros - recommended and has done the required courses for dealing with infants, it's quite specific.

Gordy6040

Agreed. I got contact details from the governing body. Don't want some quack operating from his shed. Also got a guy who is covered by my health insurance .

Soooky

Absolutely agree! I was very reluctant at first to let anyone near my LO but we checked the chiropractor out thoroughly and got recommendations...

xzanti

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Question is - have any of you guys used an Osteopath ?
What was your expirence?

Cheers
G

I did following a recommendation from a fellow boardsie.

My Son was 5 weeks when I took him, his colic was so bad that he was pretty much inconsolable and rigid with pain for most of the day.

He had 2 sessions and he was like a new man, I always recommend it to people on this forum who are looking for alternative treatments for colic and the like.

There's always those who will dismiss it as rubbish but I swear by it.

It was a clinic in Rathmines we went to. Let me know if you want the details and I'll PM you.

Best of luck with it.

Gordy6040

Quick update. Baby has had about 4 sessions. We're also on a prescription for losec and adding anit colic drops to his bottle. On the whole of day he's a lot better off. Some days are better than others. ... The combination of treatments seems to be working.

pwurple

Plus time... Most children grow out of reflux all by themselves.

Gordy6040

pwurple wrote: »

Plus time... Most children grow out of reflux all by themselves.

Absolutely. Its really about managing the symptoms till then.

walshb

Hi, anyone recommend a good osteopath/chiropractor (Meath area) for a 10 week old? Head turning to one side a lot more than the other.

moving_home

walshb wrote: »

Hi, anyone recommend a good osteopath/chiropractor (Meath area) for a 10 week old? Head turning to one side a lot more than the other.

Had fabulous success with Rory Murphy in Mullingar. He's a chiropractor. I can personally name at least 12 babies he's helped including my own.

LegacyUser

moving_home wrote: »

Had fabulous success with Rory Murphy in Mullingar. He's a chiropractor. I can personally name at least 12 babies he's helped including my own.

Out of curiousity, would it not be better to see some sort of orthopaedic consultant for that before a chiropractor/osteopath?
I've nothing against either, I'm just curious.I never heard of using osteopaths on babies until recently.

pwurple

curiouscat910 wrote: »

Out of curiousity, would it not be better to see some sort of orthopaedic consultant for that before a chiropractor/osteopath?
I've nothing against either, I'm just curious.I never heard of using osteopaths on babies until recently.

Yup. I'd try someone with a medical qualification first too. Especially when it comes to the spine or head. Too much important stuff in there.

I hear plenty of sad stories about babies with strokes or permanent spinal damage caused by this particular quackery. Ask a radiologist sometime about chiropractor / osteopath injuries. Would scare the pants off you. I wouldn't let one near a baby.

moving_home

Medical professionals don't treat the cause of reflux they just prescribe more and more medication. My daughter is perfect thanks to Rory and off all her meds and generally a much happier and more content baby. He very gently massaged the tightness from her neck while she laughed and smiled at him. She was in no pain whatsoever.

I was answering the question of another poster so I don't really want opinions on how it's 'quackery' or not.

LegacyUser

I have a baby with reflux and it never occurred to me to go to anything other than a doctor, hence my wondering.
I do know someone who has a baby with stiff muscle problems and they brought them to an osteopath alright, who fixed the issue.
I was just wondering how the connection was made between reflux and an osteopath.The two didn't seem to me to be related.

pwurple

moving_home wrote: »

Medical professionals don't treat the cause of reflux they just prescribe more and more medication. My daughter is perfect thanks to Rory and off all her meds and generally a much happier and more content baby.

My second baby had reflux too. It went away on it's own, as I imagine your baby's did too. My GP said she will grow out of it, and sure enough she she did. I really feel these guys prey on people.

He very gently massaged the tightness from her neck while she laughed and smiled at him.

There's a lot of stuff going on in a babies neck, and their bones aren't yet fused. It's very easy to do permanent spinal damage. I would be extremely cautious about letting anybody people manipulate a child's neck.


ps, moving_home, those comments are directed at the internet in general... I like to see the risks of this explained as well as people's positive opinions. Balance etc, so people can make up their own minds.

PearlJ

"There's a lot of stuff going on in a babies neck, and their bones aren't yet fused. It's very easy to do permanent spinal damage. I would be extremely cautious about letting anybody people manipulate a child's neck."


I find this comment extremely condescending. Most osteopaths are highly trained people who know exactly what they are doing.
As for the comment about them preying on people's vulnerability, I don't think you understand what an osteopath does.

I brought my 5 week old to an osteopath and it was the best money I ever spent, 4 sessions and he was perfect, after weeks of screaming and his whole body contorted in pain.
He explained that he had a traumatic birth and was able to describe exactly what happened to him which resulted in him being in so much pain.

I had brought him to the paediatric A and E in Cork on the advice of my GP and they couldn't have been more dismissive, rude and uninterested. They even called my neurotic!

Only for the osteopath I would have gone mad.

pwurple

PearlJ wrote: »

Most osteopaths are highly trained people who know exactly what they are doing.

I'm sure you've also noted that osteopathic schools are not accredited universities.

This is what osteopathy is based on...

Andrew Taylor Still (1828-1917), a Civil War surgeon in the Union army, is credited with discovering osteopathy as an alternative to the medical practices common in his day. Still became convinced that he could cure diseases by shaking the body or manipulating the spine. In his autobiography, he says he could "shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck"

Elliottsmum79

Tried a well known infant osteopath with a poorly sleeping very bad reflux baby that medication was not helping ( or helping enough). All I can say is that is was very distressing for us as the osteo contorted my tot on a bench, and all to no avail as there was no improvement at ALL. Friends raved about their experiences but definitely not for me. My poor one suffered enough with reflux, medicines and hospitals. I regret it.

Gordy6040

pwurple wrote: »

I'm sure you've also noted that osteopathic schools are not accredited universities.

This is what osteopathy is based on...

Andrew Taylor Still (1828-1917), a Civil War surgeon in the Union army, is credited with discovering osteopathy as an alternative to the medical practices common in his day. Still became convinced that he could cure diseases by shaking the body or manipulating the spine. In his autobiography, he says he could "shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck"

In the 1800's grave robbing was popular, the bodies being used for medical science. That doesnt happen any moret, we've moved on, and so has osteopathy . Comparing what happened in the 1800's isn't an argument. After being told by GP's to "get on with it" and "babies cry" our osteopath offered an alternative solution that worked for us. Cant say it will work for everyone, cant say that paracetamol will work for everyone too though.

kandr10

I'm curious on this as I'm not too familiar with the practice. How exactly do osteopaths diagnose reflux?

I think it's a shame that gps and paediatricians here can make people feel that medication is just being thrown at them with no follow up.

My sister told me when she suspected her son had reflux she was told they put a camera down to observe and only then prescribe meds. Not living in Ireland.

Personally, I appreciate having both sides of the argument given here so thanks purple for sharing!

Gordy6040

In my case, the Oesteopath didn't diagnose the ruflux. I pretty much knew what it was because I'd seen it before. I also had it confirmed by a GP and tried the normal process of antacids and special milk etc first.

kandr10

So if you didn't know what the problem was are they able to diagnose I wonder?
In terms of reflux, is that not a developmental thing? In which case, how would you go about treating anything other than the symptom? I didn't have a refluxy baby though so I'm clueless when it comes to it.

cyning

kandr10 wrote: »

So if you didn't know what the problem was are they able to diagnose I wonder?
In terms of reflux, is that not a developmental thing? In which case, how would you go about treating anything other than the symptom? I didn't have a refluxy baby though so I'm clueless when it comes to it.

It all depends on the degree and severity of the reflux... Most babies will outgrow reflux between 4/6 months of age. If you have a baby with cmpi special formulas like nutramigen or neocate might help.

With GORD/gerd it gets a bit more complicated. So you start with gaviscon/carobel move onto Zantac/losec/zoton. Some babies will have gut inflammation and may need other drugs. It's such a minefield. If you do have a baby with cmpi they may need to be medicated too for pain etc... I have a 17 month old who was weaned off Losec about 3 months ago who still refluxes: but at this stage I might just find a bit of puke on the floor of the sitting room: so gross! She's not in pain anymore so just leaving it be for now and hoping it improves. Reflux is such a minefield!

kandr10

Gosh I had no idea it was so complex. Hopefully your little one is over the worst of it.

Gordy6040

kandr10 wrote: »

So if you didn't know what the problem was are they able to diagnose I wonder?
In terms of reflux, is that not a developmental thing? In which case, how would you go about treating anything other than the symptom? I didn't have a refluxy baby though so I'm clueless when it comes to it.

To be honest , it's not the hardest thing to diagnose. I'f you've been though it you could probably diagnose it yourself.

Yes, it's a developmental problem though there may be other causes. What you are going for is managing the symptoms till the sphincter muscle grows / strengthens. This is really important because it causes a lot of pain for them. They start to associate being fed with pain so they don't want to feed, them, obviously they get hungry and want to feed but feeding = pain so its extremely upsetting. Anything that brings relief is a blessing.

DM addict

Gordy6040 wrote: »

To be honest , it's not the hardest thing to diagnose. I'f you've been though it you could probably diagnose it yourself.

Yes, it's a developmental problem though there may be other causes. What you are going for is managing the symptoms till the sphincter muscle grows / strengthens. This is really important because it causes a lot of pain for them. They start to associate being fed with pain so they don't want to feed, them, obviously they get hungry and want to feed but feeding = pain so its extremely upsetting. Anything that brings relief is a blessing.

I'm still confused as to how osteopathy is supposed to help with reflux. Osteopathy is for muscular-skeletal pain, no?

Akrasia

DM addict wrote: »

I'm still confused as to how osteopathy is supposed to help with reflux. Osteopathy is for muscular-skeletal pain, no?

Osteopathy is for whatever ails ya

Just like this jar of snake oil.

It's not based on any science, and it's just as effective as every other fake treatment that also have loads of testimonials from people who believe they worked for them.

Those Amber necklaces that magically cure teething problems
Kineseology tape
Teetha homoeopathic teething gel.

They're all based on the same principle. Confirmation bias.
In all of these things, the underlying condition is one that gets better all by itself. People use the treatment, and then all of a sudden, the condition gets better. But the treatment did nothing

Reflux is normal. Loads of babies have it to various degrees. Serious reflux that prevents the baby from gaining weight, or if there are other warning signs like blood traces in the vomit or if it's causing excessive discomfort to the baby, then this might require medical attention from a real doctor. Going to a fake doctor (Homeopath, chiropractor or osteopath) instead of a real doctor could put your child at risk.

pwurple

Kineseology tape is a new one on me... must look that up.

Akrasia

pwurple wrote: »

Kineseology tape is a new one on me... must look that up.

It's a piece of sticky tape that you put on your calf or thigh and it magically speeds up recovery from injury and/or prevents injury/improves performance

it was invented by a chiropractor and any apparent effects are almost entirely based on the placebo effect

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/kinesio-tape-athletes-help-hype

DM addict

Akrasia wrote: »

Osteopathy is for whatever ails ya

Just like this jar of snake oil.

It's not based on any science, and it's just as effective as every other fake treatment that also have loads of testimonials from people who believe they worked for them.

Those Amber necklaces that magically cure teething problems
Kineseology tape
Teetha homoeopathic teething gel.

They're all based on the same principle. Confirmation bias.
In all of these things, the underlying condition is one that gets better all by itself. People use the treatment, and then all of a sudden, the condition gets better. But the treatment did nothing

Reflux is normal. Loads of babies have it to various degrees. Serious reflux that prevents the baby from gaining weight, or if there are other warning signs like blood traces in the vomit or if it's causing excessive discomfort to the baby, then this might require medical attention from a real doctor. Going to a fake doctor (Homeopath, chiropractor or osteopath) instead of a real doctor could put your child at risk.

Thanks Akrasia - I was aware of the lack of evidence. I guess I was wondering how osteopaths/advocates *claimed* it works. Because it doesn't even sound like something that makes basic charlatan levels of sense.

Incidentally, here in USA osteopathy is totally different, as it's a branch of actual medicine; what's practiced in Europe would be illegal here. Ho Hum.

Gordy6040

Actually, I think the purpose of the tape is more to try and hold a ligament or something like that in place. No one's claiming sticky tape has magical powers. I've seen Physio's use it as well for injurys like runners knee or where the IT band is moving over a spur in the knee and causing inflamation. That's how it was explained to me anyway.

Akrasia

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Actually, I think the purpose of the tape is more to try and hold a ligament or something like that in place. No one's claiming sticky tape has magical powers. I've seen Physio's use it as well for injurys like runners knee or where the IT band is moving over a spur in the knee and causing inflamation. That's how it was explained to me anyway.

Physios use strapping and tape to give support to muscles and joints but this is different to the 'applied kinesiology' tape that has been in fashion recently.

Kinesiology is the study of human motion and this is part of a chartered physiotherapists medical training. Applied kinesiology is a pseudoscience, and it is offered by some physiotherapists for the same reasons that pharmacists offer homeopathy products in their shops.

Gordy6040

Ok. I stand corrected on that, I thought it was a support tape.

Akrasia

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Ok. I stand corrected on that, I thought it was a support tape.

So did I until I looked it up.

That's where all these pseudo-sciences hide. They masquerade as something that makes sense and then make no effort at all to inform the public about how it's actually supposed to work


Homeopathy is hiding in amongst 'herbal medicine'
The majority of people who take homeopathy don't realise that it's just water (or dehydrated water if it's in powder form)
They presume that it's a herbal medicine, and who's to blame them, they often list herbs and plants as their 'active ingredient'

Chiropractors trade on people confusing them for physiotherapists. For many many people, a chiropractor is a back doctor with just as much legitimacy as a chiropodist as a foot doctor. They presume that chiropractors are practising medicine and are medically trained, but in reality, they're practising witchcraft and sometimes give a medical treatment by accident (chiropractors often give massages that are superficially similar to deep tissue massages but these are not related to chiropractic theory. You're much better off going to a physiotherapist for your sports massage because he/she have a better understanding of the best scientifically demonstrable treatments to speed up recovery.)

Osteopaths confuse people by having a scientifically sounding name. 'Osteo' is a medical prefix that relates to bones and the skeletal system and then they describe themselves as 'manual medicine' which is just another word for poking and jabbing at people randomly until they go away. They start off by saying 'we treat bones and joints', which is plausible enough because they do manipulations of bones and joints, but they tag on 'and any other condition' like asthma or collic or reflux for babies as per the OP of this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2011/jun/15/2

It's actually a total disgrace that Osteopaths and Chiropractors and Homeopaths are allowed to call themselves 'Dr' in this country.