Land leased to farmer

Luckysasha

I'm looking for advice on this please. We currently have land leased to a farmer on a standard five year teagasc leasing template. Trouble is we are 3 years in to this arrangement and quite frankly have had enough and want out of the lease with this particular man. Is there anyway to break the agreement mid-lease considering he has broken every rule in the lease Ie: sub letting , tearing out ditches and hedgerows , cutting down trees and selling them etc etc etc. what notice do we have to give to remove him from the land. We have approached the teagasc rep for our region but get the distinct impression he is taking the farmers side on this . Any help would be appreciated

Nekarsulm

Get a Solicitor to look over the contract. Ask around for advice on who is the best "Rottweiler" of a Solicitor. Some are a lot more aggressive than others.

Lambofdave

A few things, why would you involve Teagasc in leasing land? They will always be the first to duck and dive if something goes wrong.

Ok is the land in grass or tillage?
The normal procedure is due to breach of contract or if either wants to break the contract is a written letter giving at least two weeks notice.
Is there entitlements involved with the land?

Luckysasha

Thanks Dave. I suppose we got caught out being new to this whole game. We inherited the farm following a tragedy so just wanted to get the whole land side sorted out quickly which is why we involved teagasc thinking it would be the best thing to do. We know now that's not the case.
We spoke to our solicitor yesterday and he told us he is going to serve the farmer notice to stop breaching the contract on all accounts ( sub letting, tree felling etc ) and if we are still not happy after 14 days he can serve him with an 14 day eviction notice.
Trouble is there is about 30 acres of grass hasn't been cut yet for silage so if we evict the farmer do we own that grass out right or can he claim he put time and effort in to getting it to silage stage ?
The whole farm is in grass and he is currently grazing approx 50 beef cattle none of which is his own

Lambofdave

I would think that the silage would be more hassle to you then anything else and maybe it would be better to let the farmer remove it. Out of curiosity is the farmer looking after the silage ground or is he draining it by little inputs being put in?

Has there been any response to your solicitors letter?

Luckysasha

No Dave, no reply to the solicitors letter as yet although nothing has changed on the land as such it's still the sub- letter doing all the work. Currently he is in the middle of filling the silage pit. We are thinking of offering him the lease out right and cut the original lad we had rented too out of the picture altogether. Obviously we will make a much better job of drawing up a lease this time. Question I have now is does the per acre rental price cover the use of slatted sheds and all other sheds on the land. Or is it one price for the land and another for the sheds ?

epfff

Luckysasha wrote: »

No Dave, no reply to the solicitors letter as yet although nothing has changed on the land as such it's still the sub- letter doing all the work. Currently he is in the middle of filling the silage pit. We are thinking of offering him the lease out right and cut the original lad we had rented too out of the picture altogether. Obviously we will make a much better job of drawing up a lease this time. Question I have now is does the per acre rental price cover the use of slatted sheds and all other sheds on the land. Or is it one price for the land and another for the sheds ?

Usually sheds would be extra

Farrell

epfff wrote: »

Usually sheds would be extra

Not always can be included, depends on what's agreed in the lease

Luckysasha

What way is the price for the sheds worked out. Going by last year there was approx sixty cattle in slatted sheds all winter. Other sheds where used for storage of machinery etc. is it charged per square foot or per head similar to B&B rates.

Farrell

Luckysasha wrote: »

What way is the price for the sheds worked out. Going by last year there was approx sixty cattle in slatted sheds all winter. Other sheds where used for storage of machinery etc. is it charged per square foot or per head similar to B&B rates.

What type & size?

Luckysasha

Farrell wrote: »

What type & size?

Sorry type and size of what ?? The sheds or the cattle !!

Upstream

Luckysasha wrote: »

Sorry type and size of what ?? The sheds or the cattle !!

The sheds I think

Luckysasha

There are 4 slatted sheds in total.
1 is 30 ft x 20 ft
2 is 15 ft x 20 ft
3 is 30 ft x 15 ft
4 is 20 ft x 10 ft
There are also 3 small sheds once used to house 1 cow and calf. Used last year for storage of bailer wrapper etc.
One big hay barn approx 30 ft x 20 ft x 20 ft high. Used last year to house square bailer and 2x flat trailers. And also a workshop with bench and vice. Fitted out with light and power.
We are keeping the big hay barn for our own use this year so it won't be included in any rental agreement.

milkprofit

Luckysasha wrote: »

I'm looking for advice on this please. We currently have land leased to a farmer on a standard five year teagasc leasing template. Trouble is we are 3 years in to this arrangement and quite frankly have had enough and want out of the lease with this particular man. Is there anyway to break the agreement mid-lease considering he has broken every rule in the lease Ie: sub letting , tearing out ditches and hedgerows , cutting down trees and selling them etc etc etc. what notice do we have to give to remove him from the land. We have approached the teagasc rep for our region but get the distinct impression he is taking the farmers side on this . Any help would be appreciated

the aib or ifa lease document covers nearly everyyhing i have used it before it also covers how to deal with disputes

Nekarsulm

Did you talk to the sub-letter? How much is he paying the head leaseholder? Has he got a written, signed and witnessed lease from the head leaseholder? Have you seen it with your own eyes? Did your original lease (the Teagasc one) specifically forbid sub letting? Were you paid up front for this year yet?

Luckysasha

Thanks for the link to the ifa lease. We talked to the lease holder about why he is sub letting as the teagasc lease clearly forbids it. He expresses to us he had to have the sub letter in place as he had a bad year money wise. So basically if we ran the sub letter we might not get our money for this year. The payments where based on when the entitlements where paid out ( sept & dec ) so that's why we where thinking of approaching the sub letter to lease the land directly from us and cut out the middle man.

Farrell

Luckysasha wrote: »

There are 4 slatted sheds in total.
1 is 30 ft x 20 ft
2 is 15 ft x 20 ft
3 is 30 ft x 15 ft
4 is 20 ft x 10 ft
There are also 3 small sheds once used to house 1 cow and calf. Used last year for storage of bailer wrapper etc.
One big hay barn approx 30 ft x 20 ft x 20 ft high. Used last year to house square bailer and 2x flat trailers. And also a workshop with bench and vice. Fitted out with light and power.
We are keeping the big hay barn for our own use this year so it won't be included in any rental agreement.

Generally slatted sheds are €250-350 per bay to rent for the winter, without fodder.
Slurry must be agreed upfront, as some owners get spread themselves, while others insist tenant must pay.
Your set-up wouldn't be a straight forward as if 4 bay double (60ft x 30ft) no offence meant.
The sheds could be worth up to €2500 if tenant had to take elsewhere, but how much are they worth being idle.

Luckysasha

Thanks for that . I have heard figures of 30 cents per head per night over 140 nights quoted. Apparently that is the rate for sheds only. Tenant to supply own fodder and labour. I would be hoping the slurry would be used on our land spread by tenant to keep the grass right for the next year.

Farrell

Luckysasha wrote: »

Thanks for that . I have heard figures of 30 cents per head per night over 140 nights quoted. Apparently that is the rate for sheds only. Tenant to supply own fodder and labour. I would be hoping the slurry would be used on our land spread by tenant to keep the grass right for the next year.

Even if you went 50:50 your still winning.
I'm no export, but I'd rate your system costlier than if all under 1 roof (as in mixing value etc).
If you were to lease , don't get too hung up on the pennies, as ensuring someone looks after the place right for a few less quid can be better value in the long run.

Luckysasha

That's exactly what we wanted. Someone just to carry on farming it the way it was always farmed. Problem with the guy we rented too it seems he just sees it as a money making enterprise.

freedominacup

[ Quote ] Problem with the guy we rented too it seems he just sees it as a money making enterprise.[/quote]

The chancer. Imagine trying to make money out of farming.

Lambofdave

Luckysasha wrote: »

Someone just to carry on farming it the way it was always farmed. Problem with the guy we rented too it seems he just sees it as a money making enterprise.

While this quote was badly written by the OP I think we all know what was really meant.