Query re car insurance

skippyman

It's states on my car insurance that I can drive other cars that does not belong to me... Does that mean I can drive other cars that does not have insurance at all on them.....

CiniO

skippyman wrote: »

It's states on my car insurance that I can drive other cars that does not belong to me... Does that mean I can drive other cars that does not have insurance at all on them.....

It does, except if your policy says that other car must have it's own policy, but I've never really seen policy with such requirement.

skippyman

CiniO wrote: »

It does, except if your policy says that other car must have it's own policy, but I've never really seen policy with such requirement.

Thanks for that... But thinking here if I was to drive it and was stopped by a Gaurd they would be no cert on window !!

bazz26

It's called third party extension. If you have an accident in another car then your insurance company may only accept liability with the third party you hit and may not accept it on the car you were driving that you don't own.

Of course the only way to be sure who and what is covered is by calling your insurance company and asking them to outline it to you.

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

Of course the only way to be sure who and what is covered is by calling your insurance company and asking them to outline it to you.

I disagree.
The only way to be sure who and what is covered, is to read the policy, schedule and certificate throughly (and understand it).

By ringing them, you might get any random answer which means nothing.

CiniO

skippyman wrote: »

Thanks for that... But thinking here if I was to drive it and was stopped by a Gaurd they would be no cert on window !!

That's true, and it's an offence to have no insurance disc on a window, which you could be liable for. No big fine for it though, and chances of being prosecuted very low. Possibly worth the risk.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I disagree.
The only way to be sure who and what is covered, is to read the policy, schedule and certificate throughly (and understand it).

By ringing them, you might get any random answer which means nothing.

Calls are recorded. If they tell you something that is incorrect then you ask for the recording and hold them to their word.

If someone reads their policy and takes it up wrong then its entirely their own fault. You should be able to ring your insurance company to verify something in your policy, and honestly its not right to be telling people that they cannot/should not.

coylemj

djimi wrote: »

Calls are recorded. If they tell you something that is incorrect then you ask for the recording and hold them to their word.

If someone reads their policy and takes it up wrong then its entirely their own fault. You should be able to ring your insurance company to verify something in your policy, and honestly its not right to be telling people that they cannot/should not.

Cinio was 100% right in what he said. The policy document is the contract that exits between you and the insurance company and nothing that is said over the phone can vary the contract so whether it's recorded or not, it doesn't matter what a call agent says to you, hence you should not bother to call them.

The policy is the only game in town.

Henry Ford III

djimi wrote: »

Calls are recorded. If they tell you something that is incorrect then you ask for the recording and hold them to their word.

If someone reads their policy and takes it up wrong then its entirely their own fault. You should be able to ring your insurance company to verify something in your policy, and honestly its not right to be telling people that they cannot/should not.

"Hi I rang you once to enquire about the limits of 3rd party extensions, and I now need to make a claim".

Get it in writing.

lulu1

as far as i know you can drive any car as long as its insured andyour own car can not be on the road at the same time

coylemj

skippyman wrote: »

Thanks for that... But thinking here if I was to drive it and was stopped by a Gaurd they would be no cert on window !!

There's nothing you can do about that except bring your own insurance cert and explain to the Garda that you are relying on the cover provided by your own policy.

It's not a good idea BTW to put your own disc on the borrowed car's windscreen as the Gardai take a dim view of this.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Calls are recorded. If they tell you something that is incorrect then you ask for the recording and hold them to their word.

There is no obligation for them to record calls.
All being said is that calls might be recorded for training and verification purposes. That literally means nothing, as they can record them but don't have to.
If there was something said which would put insurer in wrong, surely that call will not be shown to anyone, and all will be said is that this particular call wasn't recorded. Simple as that.

On the other hand, you can not record the call. Well - you can, but if you don't inform them you are recording it, you can't use it as proof, so such recording is useless. On the other hand if you do inform them that you are recording the call, they will hang up.

So in short words, anything said by insurer during phone call, means absolutely nothing. They can avoid any responsibility for what was said.

If someone reads their policy and takes it up wrong then its entirely their own fault. You should be able to ring your insurance company to verify something in your policy, and honestly its not right to be telling people that they cannot/should not.

I agree. You should be able to ring them to verify something, but in practice - nothing they say is for certain, and literally they can say anything without any consequences.
So I think it's worth telling people that those information obtained by phone from insurer are worthless.

Jimfo1970

skippyman wrote: »

It's states on my car insurance that I can drive other cars that does not belong to me... Does that mean I can drive other cars that does not have insurance at all on them.....

I am insured with Allianz and was stopped by police in Uk driving a relatives car. The police called Allianz in Dublin to see if I was covered. Allianz told them that I was covered providing the car that I was using was road taxed.

Hope this helps.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

There is no obligation for them to record calls.
All being said is that calls might be recorded for training and verification purposes. That literally means nothing, as they can record them but don't have to.
If there was something said which would put insurer in wrong, surely that call will not be shown to anyone, and all will be said is that this particular call wasn't recorded. Simple as that.

Im pretty certain that in the financial services industry they are legally obliged to record and keep all calls, but I will verify that tomorrow.

CiniO wrote: »

So in short words, anything said by insurer during phone call, means absolutely nothing. They can avoid any responsibility for what was said.

I agree. You should be able to ring them to verify something, but in practice - nothing they say is for certain, and literally they can say anything without any consequences.
So I think it's worth telling people that those information obtained by phone from insurer are worthless.

Coylemj wrote:

Cinio was 100% right in what he said. The policy document is the contract that exits between you and the insurance company and nothing that is said over the phone can vary the contract so whether it's recorded or not, it doesn't matter what a call agent says to you, hence you should not bother to call them.

The policy is the only game in town.

Im sorry but I really cant agree with this. Youre right in what you say that the policy is all that matters, but you should be able to, and can, ring your insurer to verify what is in your policy. Get their response in writing if you want something concrete, but to say that you cannot ring the company that you bought the policy from to enquire about said policy is just ridiculous, and honestly its more dangerous to have people reading and relying on their own interpretation of a policy that they may not understand.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Im pretty certain that in the financial services industry they are legally obliged to record and keep all calls, but I will verify that tomorrow.

They all say "calls might be recorded..." which strongly stipulates, they don't have to be.

Im sorry but I really cant agree with this. Youre right in what you say that the policy is all that matters, but you should be able to, and can, ring your insurer to verify what is in your policy. Get their response in writing if you want something concrete, but to say that you cannot ring the company that you bought the policy from to enquire about said policy is just ridiculous, and honestly its more dangerous to have people reading and relying on their own interpretation of a policy that they may not understand.

Of course you can ring your insurer to enquire about your policy. I never said otherwise. Only problem is what you hear in response, not necesserily might be true, and they don't need to take any responsibility for what they say.

Example from real life:
I rang my insurance company and ask very precise question - "I have third party extension on my policy allowing me to drive cars which doesn't belong to me. Can I use this extension to drive a car which belongs to my wife?" Answer I got was clearly "No, you can't".

I ring them again 5 minutes later. As it's big call centre, different person picks up the phone. I ask exact the same question. This time answer is "Yes, you can".

So which is true? Doesn't matter - in case of a claim, I might be saying that this is what they told me over the phone, but judge is unlikely to believe that without any proof. And there won't be any proof.

I was amazed then, and since I tried it few more times, and expeienced the same thing few times - complete opposite answers by different consultants.

So I'm 100% convinced by now, that ringing them while might be fun to have some chat, but from point of view of finding out some facts, is absolutely pointless.

djimi

Get their response in writing then; its not that hard to ask them to email confirmation if there is any doubt.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Get their response in writing then; its not that hard to ask them to email confirmation if there is any doubt.

And that's the way to go if something is unclear in policy, schedule and insurance cert.
Once you have it in writing, you are safe.

skippyman

CiniO wrote: »

And that's the way to go if something is unclear in policy, schedule and insurance cert.
Once you have it in writing, you are safe.

Thanks everyone will email them tomorrow and let ye know the outcome ......

oldyouth

lulu1 wrote: »

as far as i know you can drive any car as long as its insured andyour own car can not be on the road at the same time

That part is not correct under the driving of other cars extension

jellyboy

unless the other car has insurance,then i would say no that you can't drive it ..

this is based on past experience of friends being in court for driving without insurance(thinking they had)and getting the ok from insurance companies

the boys in blue think different and read the law in a different way

Maybe the legal issues forum could help?

No amount of pleading ignorance saved them from a ban and penalty points!!

djimi

jellyboy wrote: »

unless the other car has insurance,then i would say no that you can't drive it ..

this is based on past experience of friends being in court for driving without insurance(thinking they had)and getting the ok from insurance companies

the boys in blue think different and read the law in a different way

Maybe the legal issues forum could help?

No amount of pleading ignorance saved them from a ban and penalty points!!

It depends on the policy, but in recent times it has become less common for the car to be required to be insured. I dont think any policy that I have seen recently has stipulated that the car must have insurance when being driven using third party extension, but of course its still important to check each policy to be sure.

Jimfo1970

jellyboy wrote: »

unless the other car has insurance,then i would say no that you can't drive it ..

this is based on past experience of friends being in court for driving without insurance(thinking they had)and getting the ok from insurance companies

the boys in blue think different and read the law in a different way

Maybe the legal issues forum could help?

No amount of pleading ignorance saved them from a ban and penalty points!!

As previously stated I was stopped by police in Uk. The car that I was using was not insured. I was relying on my own insurance to drive it. The police rang Allianz in Dublin and asked if it was a requirement that the loan car had also to be insured separately to which they were told, No but it must be road taxed. I was let on my way then.

CiniO

Jimfo1970 wrote: »

As previously stated I was stopped by police in Uk. The car that I was using was not insured. I was relying on my own insurance to drive it. The police rang Allianz in Dublin and asked if it was a requirement that the loan car had also to be insured separately to which they were told, No but it must be road taxed. I was let on my way then.

In Allianz policy it's not specified that vehicle must be taxed.
Even further, if this was UK registered car, I hardly can imagine any relevance of tax to fact if they provide cover or not.
Interesting what would happen if you were driving a car registered in country where there is no such thing as motor tax - would they still insist on saying that vehicle has to be taxed?

Jimfo1970

CiniO wrote: »

In Allianz policy it's not specified that vehicle must be taxed.
Even further, if this was UK registered car, I hardly can imagine any relevance of tax to fact if they provide cover or not.
Interesting what would happen if you were driving a car registered in country where there is no such thing as motor tax - would they still insist on saying that vehicle has to be taxed?

It was a UK car and that's exactly what happened. My car was picked up by an ANPR police car as uninsured (in UK) and they followed. I was on the side of the road with them for half an hour. They were unable to contact Allianz through their system and believing I had nothing to hide so I called Allianz myself and let them talk to them. It all worked out but I was bricking it at the time. The tax was the only thing mentioned by the girl that they spoke to in Allianz. The Police were pi--ed off I'd say as in UK the car must be insured to use third party.

CiniO

Jimfo1970 wrote: »

It was a UK car and that's exactly what happened. My car was picked up by an ANPR police car as uninsured (in UK) and they followed. I was on the side of the road with them for half an hour. They were unable to contact Allianz through their system and believing I had nothing to hide so I called Allianz myself and let them talk to them. It all worked out but I was bricking it at the time. The tax was the only thing mentioned by the girl that they spoke to in Allianz. The Police were pi--ed off I'd say as in UK the car must be insured to use third party.

Did you have any document confirming you are covered to drive other cars?

Jimfo1970

CiniO wrote: »

Did you have any document confirming you are covered to drive other cars?

Yes I had the original cert with me that stated that but that was not good enough for them. I also had my flight ticket showing that I had just arrived that morning.

coylemj

Jimfo1970 wrote: »

The tax was the only thing mentioned by the girl that they spoke to in Allianz. The Police were pi--ed off I'd say as in UK the car must be insured to use third party.

You were relying on the cover provided by Allianz Ireland and there is no mention in their current policy document that the car must be taxed or have a policy in it's own right. It doesn't matter what the rule is in the UK, the policy covering you is/was bound by the rules applying here because it was underwritten by an Irish company - Allianz Ireland.

Where an Allianz Ireland policyholder has the 'driving other cars' provision on their policy, it does indeed cover you to drive cars in the UK but as the cover is provided by Allianz Ireland, it has nothing to do with Allianz UK so the same rules apply as in Ireland.

I understand that the cops in the UK may take a different attitude, I'm just telling you that you did have cover regardless of whether the car was taxed or not.

Edit: I just downloaded the Allianz UK motor policy document and under 'General Conditions', it says the following....

20. Tax and Registration
Your car must be taxed where applicable and registered in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.

Jimfo1970

coylemj wrote: »

You were relying on the cover provided by Allianz Ireland and there is no mention in their current policy document that the car must be taxed or have a policy in it's own right. It doesn't matter what the rule is in the UK, the policy covering you is/was bound by the rules applying here because it was underwritten by an Irish company - Allianz Ireland.

Where an Allianz Ireland policyholder has the 'driving other cars' provision on their policy, it does indeed cover you to drive cars in the UK but as the cover is provided by Allianz Ireland, it has nothing to do with Allianz UK so the same rules apply as in Ireland.

I understand that the cops in the UK may take a different attitude, I'm just telling you that you did have cover regardless of whether the car was taxed or not.

Thanks for that. I was surprised myself about the tax but that's what she said. I would not have been surprised if she said it had to have m.o.t. on it instead of tax. It was funny as the policeman ran back over to the car to see if the tax disc was actually on the windscreen.

CiniO

coylemj wrote: »

You were relying on the cover provided by Allianz Ireland and there is no mention in their current policy document that the car must be taxed or have a policy in it's own right. It doesn't matter what the rule is in the UK, the policy covering you is/was bound by the rules applying here because it was underwritten by an Irish company - Allianz Ireland.

Where an Allianz Ireland policyholder has the 'driving other cars' provision on their policy, it does indeed cover you to drive cars in the UK but as the cover is provided by Allianz Ireland, it has nothing to do with Allianz UK so the same rules apply as in Ireland.

I understand that the cops in the UK may take a different attitude, I'm just telling you that you did have cover regardless of whether the car was taxed or not.

But it was Allianz Ireland who told him that it must be taxed.
I was told the same thing by them a while ago - that car driven under "third party extension" must be taxed and NCTed (that was in relation to car in Ireland). That's what they told me over the phone. Nothing about tax in their policy though.

Jimfo1970

CiniO wrote: »

But it was Allianz Ireland who told him that it must be taxed.
I was told the same thing by them a while ago - that car driven under "third party extension" must be taxed and NCTed (that was in relation to car in Ireland). That's what they told me over the phone. Nothing about tax in their policy though.

Yes Allianz in Dublin

coylemj

CiniO wrote: »

But it was Allianz Ireland who told him that it must be taxed.
I was told the same thing by them a while ago - that car driven under "third party extension" must be taxed and NCTed (that was in relation to car in Ireland). That's what they told me over the phone. Nothing about tax in their policy though.

You have a short memory Cinio, do you not remember typing this stuff in this thread, all of which by the way I agree with.....

CiniO wrote: »

By ringing them, you might get any random answer which means nothing.

CiniO wrote: »

So in short words, anything said by insurer during phone call, means absolutely nothing. They can avoid any responsibility for what was said.

I agree. You should be able to ring them to verify something, but in practice - nothing they say is for certain, and literally they can say anything without any consequences.
So I think it's worth telling people that those information obtained by phone from insurer are worthless.

CiniO wrote: »

Of course you can ring your insurer to enquire about your policy. I never said otherwise. Only problem is what you hear in response, not necesserily might be true, and they don't need to take any responsibility for what they say.

Example from real life:
I rang my insurance company and ask very precise question - "I have third party extension on my policy allowing me to drive cars which doesn't belong to me. Can I use this extension to drive a car which belongs to my wife?" Answer I got was clearly "No, you can't".

I ring them again 5 minutes later. As it's big call centre, different person picks up the phone. I ask exact the same question. This time answer is "Yes, you can".

So which is true? Doesn't matter - in case of a claim, I might be saying that this is what they told me over the phone, but judge is unlikely to believe that without any proof. And there won't be any proof.

I was amazed then, and since I tried it few more times, and expeienced the same thing few times - complete opposite answers by different consultants.

So I'm 100% convinced by now, that ringing them while might be fun to have some chat, but from point of view of finding out some facts, is absolutely pointless.

CiniO

coylemj wrote: »

You have a short memory Cinio, do you not remember typing this stuff in this thread, all of which by the way I agree with.....

Heh I didn't even realise it was the same thread :cool:

Anyway - what makes me wonder is looks like they continuously repeat that story about car driven under "third party extension" requirement for tax (so it doesn't seem to be just random answer based on someone having no clue what they are talking about) but I wonder where they are sourcing it from.

skippyman

hi all got in touch with my insurance company they emailed to say yes its ok to drive my dads car on my insurance.....now another question for ye....can I tax dads car with my own insurance policy details online....my own car wont be fixed for a while and I want to tax....

CiniO

skippyman wrote: »

.now another question for ye....can I tax dads car with my own insurance policy details online....my own car wont be fixed for a while and I want to tax....

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, they don't verify insurance policy numbers you provide on motortax form, either paper one or online.
That literally means that you can enter just complete random number as a policy number, and they will still issue a tax disc.

Another issue though is a legality of giving false information on motortax form, and possible consequences of doing so.