Can a press photographer turn up at a wedding unannounced?

soldsold

Hi,

I was at a wedding last week when a freelance photographer turned up at the reception unannounced before the ceremony and started getting wedding guests in the hotel lobby into little groups and taking group photos and generally getting in the way and making the guests confused as to who the photographers were. Then out came the notebook and pen to get the guests names. The paid photographers had been asked to shoot the wedding in a non intrusive manner by the bride and groom so it ended up being a bit of a shambles. This freelance photographer said the photos were for a "wedding of the week" spread in a local paper.

While I thought it was really rude/ cheeky, I'm wondering what is the legal situation if the press photographer had been asked to leave by the hotel? My guess is that a hotel is not a "public place" so permission to take photos could have been denied if anyone felt strongly enough?

Paulw

If the hotel asks him to stop and leave then he must do so. Otherwise they can call the Gardai and report him for trespass.

I've heard of this type of photography being done, especially by small local papers, but you have no obligation to help or even allow it. If I was from the wedding party, I would have requested the photographer to leave.

jpfahy

Paulw wrote: »

If the hotel asks him to stop and leave then he must do so. Otherwise they can call the Gardai and report him for trespass.

For a trespass to become a criminal matter (and suitable for Garda intervention) there must be a criminal intent, e.g. an intent to steal or damage. That ingredient is clearly absent here and the Gardai would not get involved. It would be up to the hotel staff to ask him to leave or remove him.

Farmlife

Hotel staff have no authority to remove him, they can ask him, if he refuses it's the Gardai.

Also out of a bit of respect he should have approached one of the grooms men or bridesmaids to run it by the couple first

intolerant

I shot a wedding at The Brehon in Killarney in January this year and a press photographer turned up just after the civil ceremony.

He approached me first and asked could he photograph the bride and groom, I said ok as long as it didn't take too long and as long as he asked their permission.

The couple were ok about it and he took 30 seconds.

He got the shot and didn't annoy people because he was mannerly and professional.

Seems like your guy could learn a thing or two about manners and approach!

In relation to calling the Guards, he would be long gone before anyone noticed an issue.



Brian

jpfahy

Farmlife wrote: »

Hotel staff have no authority to remove him, they can ask him, if he refuses it's the Gardai.

The opposite is the case actually, Gardai are not entitled to manhandle citizens on private property unless an offence has been committed which is not the case here. The trespass described is a civil matter. The hotel staff however are entitled to use 'reasonable force' to eject somebody from their premises who refuses to leave.

ScumLord

I would have thought he wouldn't be able to enter a private function, take photos of people and then publish their pictures in the local paper without consent. If there was confusion about whether he was taking photos for the bride/groom or for the paper many people maybe didn't know their picture would be in the local paper.

If that was the case you'd think the lobbies of fancy hotels would be full of paparazzi. A hotel isn't public property, I don't see how it's lawful for someone to come in and start plying their trade in the lobby without permission.

magicbastarder

regarding the ceremony itself; my memory is a bit hazy on this, but i think i remember reading that the paperwork part of the ceremony has to be open to the public, given the legal status of the ceremony.
my understanding was that as it's seen as a public declaration, you can't turn the public away.

Paulw

Many hotels have unwritten agreements with some local papers - allowing access for printing photos that publicise them.

So, the hotel turns a blind eye, photographer comes in and takes photos.

As for publication, for editorial purposes they can print the images, as far as I am aware.

pixbyjohn

magicbastarder wrote: »

regarding the ceremony itself; my memory is a bit hazy on this, but i think i remember reading that the paperwork part of the ceremony has to be open to the public, given the legal status of the ceremony.
my understanding was that as it's seen as a public declaration, you can't turn the public away.

But this was the reception not the civil ceremony.

soldsold

soldsold wrote: »

The paid photographers had been asked to shoot the wedding in a non intrusive manner by the bride and groom so it ended up being a bit of a shambles. This freelance photographer said the photos were for a "wedding of the week" spread in a local paper.

Did the bride and groom complain?

Anytime I ever really covered anything for a hotel like this, the Bride and Groom (or whoever the host of whatever type of event it was) would informed in advance that it'd be happening (so they could say no to it early on).

Sounds like the hotel's fault, more than the photographer's.

A press photographer arriving after the ceremony can hardly photograph it in an non-intrusive manner. If it were me, I'd have been straight into group shots too. In, get my photos, out the door.

Chances are the press photographer's not getting paid enough to justify hanging around for a whole ceremony (and that'd only cause more grief, anyway), and is under pressure to get to the next job.


Unless the bride and groom actually complained about the photographer (and I don't see why they would), I think it's a "Mountain of a Molehill" situation, to be honest.



Directly relating to the question asked, though, yes, you could ask him to leave, and if you did, he'd probably be out the door like a shot (presumably he'd be paid for it anyway).

GarIT

jpfahy wrote: »

there must be a criminal intent, e.g. an intent to steal or damage.

He intended to damage an expensive event, that's damage to me.

Farmlife

jpfahy wrote: »

The opposite is the case actually, Gardai are not entitled to manhandle citizens on private property unless an offence has been committed which is not the case here. The trespass described is a civil matter. The hotel staff however are entitled to use 'reasonable force' to eject somebody from their premises who refuses to leave.

It's actually not the opposite. I never said anything about what the Gardai are entitled to do. I said what would happen. Point is maybe if he had a bit of manners towards the couple, things would go a lot better for him.

ValueInIreland

GarIT wrote: »

He intended to damage an expensive event, that's damage to me.

Your are getting carried away here, the only 'intention' was to get a selection of pictures for a local paper. If any of the Wedding party or guests had an issue with the Press Photographer being there, they could just decline to have their photograph taken. If the Couple had an issue, I'm sure the photographer would have been happy to call it a day as it's not in his interest (or that of the Paper's ) to create a bad feeling.
My reading of the original post is that SOLDSOLD had the biggest issue - Were you the "Official" Photographer?

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

He intended to damage an expensive event, that's damage to me.

So by that token, if the DJ was having a bad day and decided to half ass it, he could be done for criminal damage?

Or would he have 'assaulted' the event? :rolleyes:

Think of what you're saying

IHPhoto

Saw this happen as well, the photographer came in at the drinks reception for about a half hour and set up a few posed group shots for the local paper.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

So by that token, if the DJ was having a bad day and decided to half ass it, he could be done for criminal damage?

A better analogy might be if a band set up beside the DJ and started playing their music over the DJs. Nobody gets hurt there but it still ruins the day.

almorris

ScumLord wrote: »

A better analogy might be if a band set up beside the DJ and started playing their music over the DJs. Nobody gets hurt there but it still ruins the day.

An even better analogy might be if the press photographer eats into the "official" photographers time and the clients don't end up with all the photos on their list because they have to sit down for their meal.

DaireQuinlan

almorris wrote: »

An even better analogy might be if the press photographer eats into the "official" photographers time and the clients don't end up with all the photos on their list because they have to sit down for their meal.

That's not really an analogy at all.

Zillah

jpfahy wrote: »

For a trespass to become a criminal matter (and suitable for Garda intervention) there must be a criminal intent, e.g. an intent to steal or damage. That ingredient is clearly absent here and the Gardai would not get involved. It would be up to the hotel staff to ask him to leave or remove him.

That's all very well and good for a pub or hotel with security staff, but what about private venues that don't have the ability to use reasonable force to eject someone? Are you saying if, say, a barber wants me off his premises and I refuse, the guards will not use force to eject me on his behalf? What about your living room?

jpfahy

Zillah wrote: »

That's all very well and good for a pub or hotel with security staff, but what about private venues that don't have the ability to use reasonable force to eject someone? Are you saying if, say, a barber wants me off his premises and I refuse, the guards will not use force to eject me on his behalf? What about your living room?

Unless there is an offence committed or there is intent to commit an offence or there is a 'breach of the peace' then that is the case, yes. Being unwanted is not an offence, thank God.
If somebody is a guest in your living room and you decide you don't want them there any longer it's not the job of the Gardai to remove him/her subject to the above.

Zillah

jpfahy wrote: »

Unless there is an offence committed or there is intent to commit an offence or there is a 'breach of the peace' then that is the case, yes. Being unwanted is not an offence, thank God.
If somebody is a guest in your living room and you decide you don't want them there any longer it's not the job of the Gardai to remove him/her subject to the above.

And if their front door is open and I just walk in? I'm not going to damage anything or steal anything, I'm just going to sit in an armchair. The guards won't force me out?

jpfahy

Zillah wrote: »

And if their front door is open and I just walk in? I'm not going to damage anything or steal anything, I'm just going to sit in an armchair. The guards won't force me out?

You are creating a hypothetical situation there that just never happens in real life except perhaps where someone has mental health issues, in which case other laws come into play.

soldsold

A bit more information to get an idea of the situation:

I was shooting the wedding as a favour for the bride's sister. The bride and groom made it clear they were not into photography and only wanted a set list of formal shots to keep the parents etc happy. They didn't want any posed photos of themselves.

I made it clear that I was available all day anyway and that I could shoot in a very unobtrusive and discreet manner and if they didn't want the photos they could always delete them afterwards. So they were really happy with this arrangement and came around to the idea that a few bride and groom portrait shots might be on the cards if they had a few glasses of champagne. They liked the idea of informal, documentary style shots and even agreed to having a second photographer along (a trainee)

Then the press photographer (she, not he) turned up and started to usher them into groups and took ages with the shots - six shots of one group with chimping on the back of the camera in between each one and no urgency whatsoever from her.

It killed off any real chance of capturing the mood of the reception but to be honest I was very busy, pretty shocked and also unsure if the hotel had arranged it that I didn't ask the press photographer what was going on. It also would have been really awkward to be following this photographer around taking shots of the same groups as they would have been wondering why they were getting the photos taken again. All in all a very awkward half hour with so many photographers and video cameras in everyones faces.