Don't know what to do with boyfriend & his friend

LegacyUser

Hi all,

Some advice would be very welcome, and apologies in advance for the long post.

So, in classic form, my long-distance boyfriend has this female friend that he's extremely close to. In fact at one point they were in 'a relationship in all but name' (that's how he described it to me), and they slept together. She had a partner at the time, which my bf knew about, and in fact they're still together, with the partner still not knowing anything about my bf and her.

I came along not long after they decided that they weren't going to pursue a full relationship; he & I fell for each other hard, and we've been together now for just over a year. Except that his friend is still very much present and involved in his life. They are in very frequent communication, online, texting, and calling, and they also meet up very frequently as well: she's usually the first or second person he'll meet up with after he's been away for any stretch of time, maybe after his male best friend. They go for long lunches together, and then also meet up as part of a group of friends very regularly; he goes to her house for coffee or a glass of wine, and last summer he even spent a weekend at her holiday house. He also discusses our relationship with her: he goes to her after we've had a disagreement, and I know that she discusses her (many) relationship woes with him.

I also know for a fact that she dislikes me. It's not me being paranoid: I've seen messages from her in which she says that I'm childish and puerile, and that I don't 'get' my boyfriend at all. I have not had a chance to meet her personally yet (I have my doubts about doing so), but at Christmas last year I met some of the circle of friends that she is part of, and was met with hostility. I was excluded from the conversations, which revolved around topics I couldn't participate in, and together with the language barrier I was completely left alone. My boyfriend has only very recently admitted that these friends, including her, 'had doubts' about me and about our relationship, something that hurts me as I feel he left me exposed in the situation when I met them. If I had known that perhaps they weren't entirely convinced about me, I could have tried a different approach with them, but instead I was left confused by their hostility and didn't understand why it was happening.

I will admit that ever since he told me of his relationship with his friend I have not been entirely happy about it. After a disagreement last summer, he eventually told me that he had poured his heart out to her after it; I said that I would prefer if he didn't talk about our relationship, and especially not the problems in it, with her. Things however have not changed. He doesn't understand how his relationship with her makes me feel uncomfortable, and gets angry and defensive when I try to explain it, and in essence refuses to see that now that he's in a new romantic relationship, he cannot have things exactly as they were with her before I came along. I do not want him to cut her out, and I have never asked or expected that, ever. I did ask him to consider his relationship with her, and how it impacts on us, and to make some small changes, such as maybe not being in as frequent contact with her. However, even changes like these he resists.

Over the past 2 days things have come to a head: I learned that he has been meeting up with her without telling me (after saying he would), and that he has consistently lied about not talking with her about our relationship. In fact, after he & I argued about the meetings, he went to her. Then when I confronted him about breaking his promise with regards to that, and we had another row, he went to her again!

I don't know what to do anymore. Am I being paranoid & controlling? Is this relationship best over, if I feel my trust is being repeatedly violated, and he feels I'm being overly invasive? Help please!!

Alf. A. Male

Maybe I missed it, but I can't see one good thing you've written about this relationship and for the life of me I can't see why you would stay with him. You have little time together, he prioritises others over you, is clearly speaking badly of you to friends and has an emotional relationship with a woman that is is more important to him than you are. Are you just afraid of having no boyfriend or something? Only thing I can think of and of that's it, it's a terrible reason to put up with this treatment. Me, I'd be long gone.

smiler123

I can't really give you any advice other than to go with your instinct . If you are miserable then your bf is gonna be miserable too and the relationship will not work out The way I see it ,either your bf or the girl secretly want to have a relationship OR they genuinely are best friends .
I have a male friend who I can definitely call my very best friend and I know the feeling is mutual . He is my confidante and I've told him things I couldn't tell my husband and vice versa . Both my husband and his wife had their own issues with how close we were , but they eventually came to realise that with truly are best friends of the opposite sex . Personally speaking , I know that if my husband couldn't get over that , then our relationship would have been doomed . I couldn't have married someone knowing that he was suspicious of my every move .
If I were you , I'd meet her . The way your bf and herself react in your company will tell you soon enough what you need to do . Let instinct guide you .

Magicmatilda

He has told you he won't do certain things, he has done those things and he has lied about it.

That doesn't show a lot of respect for your feelings.

It seems from your post that he would be willing to put her feelings ahead of yours.

You know he has cheated with her in the past so you know she is capable of cheating and he is capable of lying (to her boyfriend, assuming he has met him since, has he?)

I would not be happy with the situation, either my boyfriend is commited to our relationchip and as part of that commitment he will not do things to harm that relationship or he is not. It sounds like your boyfriend is not as he is willing to harm it to pursue a relationship with another woman.

I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who is not committed.

I am all for people having friends of the opposite sex but not when those friendships are detrimental to their relationship.

I don't think you are being paranoid or controlling but I think it suits him to have you thinking you are.

username123

The bottom line here is that you are playing second fiddle to a woman already established in his life and he is not willing to change that.

I wouldn't settle for second best, you shouldn't either.

strobe

This just sounds so so messy and a huge amount of hassle for a number of reasons.

Unless you're convinced this guy is genuinely one in a million, the love of your life, its possibly the kind of love story developing that epic sonnets or 80's hair metal ballads are written about... I'd bail, several billion other men in the world.

Ann84

Sorry to hear your frustration OP but like others have said, he really isn't respecting your feelings or you as his partner... I wouldnt have lasted as long as you already have to be honest.
The way his friends treated you is awful! It can be intimidating meeting your partners friends for the first time and the fact that they had pre-judged you before even saying hello says an awful lot about them as a group... I have always been very friendly to my friends New partners, no matter what I had heard about their relationship because my friend is still with them anyway!
It does sound like they a're one big click and your bf and this girl are possibly seen by everyone else as a gonna happen or something, I don't know but it's not right.

The bones of this is that your BF should be respecting your feelings and undetstanding your perspective. Its à very hurtful place for you to be and I personally couldn't do it. Might be worthwhile having one last heart to heart with your bf, if he argues, gets defensive or shouts... Walk away. You should be with someone who puts you first

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, OP here. Thank you all for your advice so far.

I feel I should point out that we actually do have an otherwise-good relationship: this is basically the only thing we argue over. He is very affectionate and loving, both in person and when we're going through one of our long-distances phases - he's never been the kind to play games with texting etc., he always has time to skype me, and he'll even phone from Italy to say goodnight if he can't skype that evening, and he's been very supportive of me generally. It's just this one issue. And I don't feel I'm the kind of person who can't be without a boyfriend, he's actually the first person I've felt this serious with. I'm not afraid of being alone, and have been for long periods because things didn't feel right with a man or I just couldn't find someone I liked. I would probably describe myself more as picky rather than a can't-be-alone type.

And Magicmatilda, he regularly meets up with her poor partner when they meet up as a group. Not only that, but my bf has told me that she now has a man on the side again, of course without her partner knowing. Madness.

MagicMarker

If they're the kind of people who sleep together behind her partner's back then they're the kind of people who would sleep together behind your back. Their relationship has moved way past the point of friendship.

I would have been gone a long time ago if I were you.

CaraMay

Ok so you don't argue about other things... It's hard to argue about putting out the rubbish when you live in different countries!!! You do argue though about this HUGE issue but you are choosing to overlook that.

This is a big issue op and he is seriously disrespecting you but I guess you aren't going to do anything about it.

Mr. Incognito

Over the past 2 days things have come to a head: I learned that he has been meeting up with her without telling me (after saying he would), and that he has consistently lied about not talking with her about our relationship

Dump him.

Seriously. What they heck are you doing

retro:electro

I wouldn't be surprised if this "man she has on the side" is your boyfriend.

liz lemoncello

sadstudent wrote: »

.....:I have not had a chance to meet her personally yet (I have my doubts about doing so),!

Why have you not met her yet? Is that your choice?

sadstudent

sadstudent wrote: »

They are in very frequent communication, online, texting, and calling, and they also meet up very frequently as well: she's usually the first or second person he'll meet up with after he's been away for any stretch of time, maybe after his male best friend. They go for long lunches together, and then also meet up as part of a group of friends very regularly; he goes to her house for coffee or a glass of wine, and last summer he even spent a weekend at her holiday house.
In fact at one point they were in 'a relationship in all but name' (that's how he described it to me), and they slept together. She had a partner at the time, which my bf knew about, and in fact they're still together, with the partner still not knowing anything about my bf and her.

I have had many best friends in my life, male and female, and I have NEVER had a best friend that I'd describe like that. Have you OP?

Over the past 2 days things have come to a head: I learned that he has been meeting up with her without telling me (after saying he would), and that he has consistently lied about not talking with her about our relationship.

So in the past he has slept with her while she had a boyfriend. He has had no problem hiding it from the boyfriend. He has refused to take you into account when it comes to his relationship with her. He has lied to you to spend time with her. He spends lots of time and energy on her. I don't want to encourage you to end a great relationship, but from what you've said it sounds like the only thing left for you to find out is that he's sleeping with/wants to sleep with her, so I guess you have to ask yourself: Is the relationship really that great? Is all this actually worth being with him at the end of the day?

It sounds to me like this is just a huge drain of energy and happiness for you, and he doesn't seem to give a crap about it.

Calmsurrender

Whatever about his questionable relationship with this woman, what bothers me is she thinks you're "childish and puerile" and you were met with hostility and rudeness from his friends based on a preconceived impression they have of you.
Where did that come from?
Her? Shes never even met you.
So he's whinging and bitching about you to her all the time and shes bleating it to all their mutual friends with glee or he's badmouthing you to all his other friends too. Why do they have "doubts" about the relationship? What has he been saying?
He doesnt respect you. Send him on his merry way.

evilpixie

Dump him. You are worth more.

shalalala

This is basically the situation i was in 2 years ago. I left him 3 times and told him if he ever wanted me back he would have to get rid of her. He finally did and i thought we had recovered from it all. He finished it with me after 3 years together and living together for 1 year and now he is telling me that he isn't sure if he still resents me for it.

if he can not see an issue with his behaviour, i am not sure if you will ever be able to convince him otherwise. He needs to get over her in his own time and realise the mistake he is making.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, OP again. Thank you everyone for your advice and perspectives.

It has really woken me up to how badly he's been treating me, and the worst part was that I didn't even realise myself.

We had a massively long conversation about everything last night. I told him flat out that I was sick of having this argument, and that if he didn't change things I was gone, out. He became really upset (not angry, mind). I actually showed him this thread, and the replies that you guys posted, and I think that finally revealed to him just how badly he's been behaving. He apologised over and over for not seeing things properly, he said he was just trying to have everyone get along.

With regards to the 'doubts' of his friends, some of them were not to do with me directly. My boyfriend has been making plans to move to the UK (where I'm based now) for the past year or so, and has been applying for jobs in England. I think his friends partially reacted badly to that, the idea that he was emigrating and establishing a life elsewhere. They also had some preconceptions about me based on what I do (I'm a PhD student at a very well-known university in the UK), and were afraid he'd become trapped in the 'ivory tower'. Not nice stereotypes to have of me based on very little information, but I could partially see how they could think that.

Eventually we agreed to give things another try. However, I have laid down very firm conditions about his continued friendship with her. I told him under no circumstances was he ever to speak to her about any aspect of our relationships. I also asked him to reduce contact with her, and that he cease meeting her just one-on-one; as I said, that group of friends meet regularly anyway so he isn't cutting her out, just changing the nature of their interactions. I also told him that if any one of those conditions were broken, I would be gone without a backward glance.

I think it will take some time for me to get back to where I was with how I feel about him. My trust is shot, and I feel wounded. He will have to work very very hard to win me back fully; we'll see what happens.

Any further advice is very welcome, and thank you so much again everyone.

LegacyUser

I should also add, that he told me yesterday night that he phoned his friend, and explained what was happening. He said that he told her over and over how much he loved me, and that I was his absolute priority. He told me that she said she didn't want to cause trouble in the relationship (yeah, ok) and so she would retreat - not contact him, not seek him out to meet up, and instead just confine their friendship to the group scenarios I described above.

So, yeah...

December2012

That's great - but why did he bring his friend into it by phoning her and again telling her about you and your relationship?

It seems as if he's feeding off the drama.

LegacyUser

I think December2012 he contacted her to make clear how things were going to be from now on. And I can understand that, after all I never wanted them to stop being friends entirely, and changing things without giving her some kind of heads up seems a bit mean (although my sympathy for her is zero); he said most of the conversation was him outlining how she was a problem for us, and that he has me as his No. 1 priority. So I forgave him that phonecall, and the 'new phase' dates from then for me, as I made clear to him - after that, he doesn't talk about us. She knows now what a wagon she's been, and has also promised to steer clear.

CaraMay

Exactly why contact her??? He is definitely enjoying the drama.

midnight_train

sadstudent wrote: »

And Magicmatilda, he regularly meets up with her poor partner when they meet up as a group. Not only that, but my bf has told me that she now has a man on the side again, of course without her partner knowing. Madness.

I'm assuming you are calling her partner 'poor' because he's being cheated on. But you know what? I think it's also pretty 'poor' that YOUR boyfriend is the one who did the cheating with this guy's girlfriend, and now hangs out with him and is nice to him to his face, while he was stabbing him in the back by sleeping with his girlfriend.

Sorry, OP, but your boyfriend isn't a good guy. And - this is coming from someone who's had two serious long-distance relationships before - you simply do not know someone when you're long distance. Very hard to judge someone's character and personality when you don't see them often.

Don't turn a blind eye to MASSIVE red flags.

LegacyUser

It's not a great position to be in and I feel sorry for you, OP.

I don't see anything wrong with people having friends of the opposite sex, although these two seem a bit dodgy, what with the cheating, etc. that has gone on. I quite understand how you must feel about it, and it must be hard to know that he is telling her things about your relationship.

But I also think that when you dictate to your partner when and where and how he can interact with his friend, you're on to a loser. He will feel as though he is being controlled (because he is), and may end up resenting you because of this.

I hope it works out for you.

MagicMarker

December2012 wrote: »

That's great - but why did he bring his friend into it by phoning her and again telling her about you and your relationship?

It seems as if he's feeding off the drama.

CaraMay wrote: »

Exactly why contact her??? He is definitely enjoying the drama.

Ah give the guy a break, he rang her and told her what he needed to tell her.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,

Please know that I am taking a very strict line on this. I won't get mad at him for speaking to her late yesterday because, as MagicMarker said, he was calling to tell her what he needed to tell her.

I feel I should also say that while we are LDR, we do actually spend significant periods of time together. So he lived with me for nearly two months in January & February of this year; then he was here again for a month in April-May. It's the nature of our jobs as researchers that we're not tied to one place all the time, and can organise ourselves this way; and as I said, he's moving to the UK in the autumn. I've also been to see him in between those longer periods, for a week at a time usually. So while we are long-distance, we do see each other for significant blocks of time, where we are spending a lot of time together. And when we're actually together we get on really well, including with regards to things like taking out the bins etc.

username123

Unfortunately I don't see a successful outcome here.

If you have to tell someone how to behave, who they can talk to, the nature of that contact, conditions of friendship etc... What good is that? You are not his puppet master. You can't control another person. It should have come from within him to stop prioritising another woman over his girlfriend, not as a result of being told how he is allowed to behave. I see only disappointment and disillusionment down that road.

Sorry OP, but I don't think this is going to end well. For someone like him with a well established history of deceit, it's likely he just agreed with you and said what you wanted to hear but he will continue to do as he wishes behind your back. And from your perspective, setting conditions on someone's behaviour only sets you up for disappointment.

CaraMay

username123 wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't see a successful outcome here.

If you have to tell someone how to behave, who they can talk to, the nature of that contact, conditions of friendship etc... What good is that? You are not his puppet master. You can't control another person. It should have come from within him to stop prioritising another woman over his girlfriend, not as a result of being told how he is allowed to behave. I see only disappointment and disillusionment down that road.

Sorry OP, but I don't think this is going to end well. For someone like him with a well established history of deceit, it's likely he just agreed with you and said what you wanted to hear but he will continue to do as he wishes behind your back. And from your perspective, setting conditions on someone's behaviour only sets you up for disappointment.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. You shouldn't have to have a strict line with your partner. You are not his boss!

shalalala

Unfortunately this echo's my now ex. Nearly to the tee. Just keep an eye on the situation. Stay a little removed, make sure he is keeping up his side of the bargain and trust your gut. Hopefully this is the real thing for you op. Good luck but remember. You deserve respect.

Lou.m

He seems to be very dependent on this girl.

She seems to be very comfortable about using people. She used him before and cheated on her partner and left your BF as her second choice.

She was unkind to you and put you down. And since she has a pivotal role in your BF's life I am sure that must have hurt you. And they don't seem to have the nobility or heart to care at all. They don't even seem to have the nobility to care properly about one another. She and he use each other. And hurt others in the process.

She paints the image of her 'getting' the bit of him she claims that you do not. Yet she would not commit to him when they were in 'almost' a relationship.

You know what I feel. These two people your BF and her ...like each other a lot...but they know that they are selfish people...and they would rather have nicer partners.

She has a lot of control over him. But does not want 'him' and yet still wants him around. She is happy to string him along.

He has you now...so he is happy to be strung along...he would probably mind it more if he was not in a relationship with you.

Are you certain that if he had the choice and she would commit to him that he would not choose her?

I want you to look at this situation while loving yourself and holding yourself in high self esteem.

How do you see it then?

Do these two people the BF and the girl treat anyone right? Her partner ...him ..does she even respect herself to act this way??

They don't relate to the people around them from a place of love and respect. I think they need to mature.

These people seem to waste a lot of time talking about you? Why don't they have lives??

Is it possible she is intimidated by you and the fact that you are doing something with your life and that you might take him away to another country?

I don't see these people as being good enough for you to hang around. The gossip, the pettiness the manipulation. The BF is either so stupid he can't see it that I would not respect him or else he is ok with it in which case I still would not respect him.

Drama ..what drama?? They would not know real drama ...they have small boring humdrum lives that require creating childish selfish squabbling. Real emotions ..caring ..empathy etc ..seem to be missing.

They do not seem like very good people ...you seem pleasant and kind. I think you are living in a different world to these people. They are low and gossipy.

It is your decision of course. But make it from a place of high self esteem, self love, security and respect for your feelings.

Oryx

His friend sounds like a real piece of work. She cheats with impunity, actively interferes in a so called friends relationship, needs to keep multiple men stringing along, and puts down a girl that she doesn't even know through sone kind of control freakery or insecurity.

And your man has had her on a pedestal. You know a man by the company he keeps. Bear that in mind.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone. Thank you so much everyone for all your advice and opinions, I have read everything with care and taken your viewpoints on board.

I am very aware that he has treated me shoddily; this thread has helped me to see that, among other things. We have had several conversations over the past few days trying to get to the root of why, for instance, we had to keep having the same argument over and over without any resolution. He has acknowledged that he has been selfish, and that his attitude towards her hasn't always been healthy. He has also said that he felt caught between two people/groups he cared about. Naturally his friends weren't entirely happy about the idea of him moving away (although of course ultimately it is not their decision) and were upset at the idea of losing him, while he simultaneously felt as our relationship developed that his life would lie in England, and he that he wanted to be with me where I was.

He has also told me that when she & he slept together, he was in the grips of depression. He still attends a psychologist about once a month, and was on medication when I met him - I remember seeing medication bottles in his house when I was first seeing him, but of course didn't ask what for. He has since stopped taking them, about a month after we started going out. I only very recently became aware of the extent of his depression: he did tell me about it, at the same time as he told me about him & his friend & their relationship, but he is still even now seeing a psychologist/counsellor about it. Of course this does not excuse what he did with her, and the continuing way they have treated her partner in particular. That does trouble me, I admit. Now, I don't really know much about the dynamic of their relationship. Perhaps her partner does have some idea about it all, but my understanding is that he doesn't, at least officially. The friend also has 2 kids from a previous relationship which ended in divorce; she's a bit older than my boyfriend, very late 30s I think. I agree with what everyone has said that she is clearly a wagon and doesn't have very healthy relationships, especially with men. I have asked myself many times what he sees in her: they do share some quite deep common interests, including a shared loved of politics, and they both attend and are involved in the same church, which is a minority one in Italy so the community is very close - in fact all of that circle of friends are what I shorthand as his 'church friends'. Not entirely full of Christian charity it seems...

In relation to me dictating his behaviour, what I posted before may have seemed like it was coming entirely from me, but it was a compromise we agreed together during one of our conversations. He proposed a lot of those things himself, and agreed that it is necessary. I also don't think they are absolutes - with the passage of time things will change again no doubt. We just need to always be aware of the other's feelings.

I will be taking very close care of myself over the next while. I have given him another chance, because I do believe that what we have is worth saving, even if it was shaky, because I have never felt a connection to someone like I do with him. Having said that, he will have to work very very hard in rebuilding my trust, and basically just winning me over again. I do believe he has finally understood both the particular problem and the underlying principal, so he will have to demonstrate that to me. Having had time to reflect myself, I have also resolved to myself that I will never allow my self-dignity to take a battering like that again. It has also been a lesson for me, and if I feel myself in a similar position again I will have no hesitation in walking away, and he knows that.

Thanks again everyone, your continued support and advice is very gratefully received, and thank you so much for everything so far.