Agency administration fee

willabur

Just received a lease from a letting agent for an apartment myself and a friend are due to move into on Monday.
Along with the deposit and the first months rent the agency has tacked on an admin fee of 80 euro. I've never come across this fee before, I assumed it was the landlord who paid all agency fees

Bateman

I rent through an agency and was never charged any such fee.

Cathmandooo

Tell them where to go, the landlord hired them, the landlord pays their bills!

joeguevara

It depends what you signed up to at the beginning. Were any administration charges outlined in anything that you signed. If yes, you would be required to pay. If no, then you wouldn't. I rent out my apartment through an agency and as far as I am aware the tenants never had to pay anything to the agency.

TheDriver

might it be a convenient admin error that should be tacked onto the landlords bill??

xalot

I've heard of this before, often the agency will charge the tenant and the landlord an 'admin' fee.
Just refuse to pay it and see what happens, cant see them pulling out if they've told the landlord you're moving in and your references have already been checked

Fkall

Admin fees for a tenant are very common in the UK.

It looks like they are now starting to make an appearance in Ireland.

the world wonders

this practice would appear to be illegal under section 90 of the Property Services Regulation Act 2011:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0040/sec0090.html#sec90
90.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), any provision (whether express or implied) in an agreement in respect of the sale or letting of land whereby the purchaser or tenant, as the case may be, is required to pay or otherwise bear the cost of the licensee’s fees or expenses in respect of the sale or letting, as the case may be, shall be void, and any moneys paid pursuant to such a provision shall be recoverable as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

“land” has the meaning assigned to it by the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009

“land” includes—
...
(d) buildings or structures of any kind on land and any part of them, whether the division is made horizontally, vertically or in any other way
...

The_Conductor

OP- any fees, are incurred by the landlord, not the tenant.
Refuse to pay it- they are chancing their arm.

theteal

Yup very common over here, the last shower wanted £400 when we were moving in to this house. That was quickly haggled down. It also states in the lease that if we renew after a year that we've to pay £90. . .that just didn't happen.

They are chancing, OP

Dredd_J

I think thats going to become very common over here too. Along with non refundable redecoration fees (very common in other countries), and much higher deposits.

But its very simple here at the moment. Just dont take that apartment if you are not happy with any extra administration etc charges.
If nobody accepts them, they wont happen.

The_Conductor

Ok- in an Irish context- its illegal under the legislation governing Property Services Regulation- and if an agent/agency were to try to pull such a stunt- a little phone call to the friendly PSRA in Navan will probably have their license revoked.

We do have many things wrong with our rental system here- foremost- an insistence on property being let furnished, no body for lodging deposits with, and an insistence that a relevant deposit is a month's rent (though this seems to be falling by the wayside particularly in Dublin/Cork/Galway).

The Swiss model- where you strip the place and repaint it to neutral colours, when vacating it- or where sellers have to have their cleaning of the property inspected, before it is handed over to a buyer- while extreme- has a lot going for it.

Here we are all adversarial- with tenants imaging all landlords are conmen out to keep their deposits- and landlord's that tenants are criminals intent on causing damage and not paying rent. We have a significant minority of people who unfortunately tarnish the reputations of everyone else- and cause hell on earth for all the decent people in the equation.

Our property rental model- is broken. It doesn't need sticking plasters- it needs fixing.

Dredd_J

The_Conductor wrote: »

Ok- in an Irish context- its illegal under the legislation governing Property Services Regulation- and if an agent/agency were to try to pull such a stunt- a little phone call to the friendly PSRA in Navan will probably have their license revoked.

We do have many things wrong with our rental system here- foremost- an insistence on property being let furnished, no body for lodging deposits with, and an insistence that a relevant deposit is a month's rent (though this seems to be falling by the wayside particularly in Dublin/Cork/Galway).

The Swiss model- where you strip the place and repaint it to neutral colours, when vacating it- or where sellers have to have their cleaning of the property inspected, before it is handed over to a buyer- while extreme- has a lot going for it.

Here we are all adversarial- with tenants imaging all landlords are conmen out to keep their deposits- and landlord's that tenants are criminals intent on causing damage and not paying rent. We have a significant minority of people who unfortunately tarnish the reputations of everyone else- and cause hell on earth for all the decent people in the equation.

Our property rental model- is broken. It doesn't need sticking plasters- it needs fixing.

What legislation prevents a landlord from asking for a higher deposit or to pay a non refundable fee of any sort up front before renting. Or even to have it structured something like "First months rent is €1500 dropping to €1000 pm for the next 12 month" or something to that effect to cover redecoration or PRTB etc fees.

Or agencies charging a "membership fee" as I have had to pay myself in some countries.

I read on Irish Landlord.com that people are putting in all sorts of imaginative clauses into their leases for such charges.

the world wonders

Dredd_J wrote: »

What legislation prevents a landlord from asking for a higher deposit or to pay a non refundable fee of any sort up front before renting. Or even to have it structured something like "First months rent is €1500 dropping to €1000 pm for the next 12 month" or something to that effect to cover redecoration or PRTB etc fees.

That's all perfectly fine as it is a charge levied on the tenant by the landlord. Even if the landlord pays this charge straight over to the agent as "admin fees" then the landlord still has an incentive to choose the agent with the lowest admin fees, as the money is coming out of their pocket. But the tenant cannot choose the agent, and that is where the potential for abuse arises.

Or agencies charging a "membership fee" as I have had to pay myself in some countries.

This is illegal as it is a charge levied on the tenant by the agent (unless the agent is acting for the tenant, but this is pretty uncommon in this country).

Dredd_J

the world wonders wrote: »

That's all perfectly fine as it is a charge levied on the tenant by the landlord. Even if the landlord pays this charge straight over to the agent as "admin fees" then the landlord still has an incentive to choose the agent with the lowest admin fees, as the money is coming out of their pocket. But the tenant cannot choose the agent, and that is where the potential for abuse arises.
This is illegal as it is a charge levied on the tenant by the agent (unless the agent is acting for the tenant, but this is pretty uncommon in this country).

Can you point me to links to the legislation please. I always find its more helpful for me to actually read them myself, but as you know its very hard to find specific text in there. Since you know what it is perhaps you could link me to it. Thanks.

the world wonders

Dredd_J wrote: »

Can you point me to links to the legislation please.

Read the thread.

Dredd_J

the world wonders wrote: »

Read the thread.

So you cant then?
Why didnt you just say so in the first place.

the world wonders

Dredd_J wrote: »

So you cant then?

I can, and I did. Scroll up.

Dredd_J

the world wonders wrote: »

I can, and I did. Scroll up.

That text you posted does not cover my question at all.

the world wonders

Dredd_J wrote: »

That text you posted does not cover my question at all.

The question you asked was "Can you point me to links to the legislation please". The text I posted included a link directly to the appropriate section of the act on irishstatutebook.ie.

Are you interested in discussion at all or are you just trying to derail the discussion because the law is not on your side?

Edit: I see you're up to the exact same thing in the other thread, people quoted chapter and verse of the RTA to you and you were still feigning ignorance.

Dredd_J

the world wonders wrote: »

The question you asked was "Can you point me to links to the legislation please". The text I posted included a link directly to the appropriate section of the act on irishstatutebook.ie.

Are you interested in discussion at all or are you just trying to derail the discussion because the law is not on your side?

You still havent pointed me to the text that you say is there.
If you feel you can produce the text then do so. If you don't we'll just assume you dont have it and move on, because it would be easier for you to quote it than keep posting in the hope of me getting tired of asking for it. So I am tired of it now.
So lets just end it here. You dont have it, I wont comment on it again.

the world wonders

Dredd_J wrote: »

You still havent pointed me to the text that you say is there.
If you feel you can produce the text then do so. If you don't we'll just assume you dont have it and move on, because it would be easier for you to quote it than keep posting in the hope of me getting tired of asking for it. So I am tired of it now.
So lets just end it here. You dont have it, I wont comment on it again.

I'm not going to quote the same info again for you as I suspect you are not arguing in good faith and if I did quote it, then you'd start the same "argument from ignorance" nonsense you're at in the other thread.

Here is how we can move forward:

1. you scroll up to post #8 in this thread and read and comprehend it
2. you then explain specifically your position that letting agents are allowed charge tenants fees and that this does not conflict with Section 90 of the Property Services Regulation Act

The_Morrigan

Folks can we get back on topic please and stop with the petty squabbling.

Morri