What is your opinion on Spare Keys to your apartment being handed out to unknown ppl

Unre4L

Hello guys

I urgently need to know what you think of my situation and my rights in this situation.

Im not in direct contact with my landlord but a property manager acting on behalf of the owner and she doesnt appear have a care in the world. There are multiple issues with the apartment, which I have informed them going back more than 1 year, but nothing has been done.

Anyway, this isnt even the problem. My concern is that this manager has asked me to make duplicate keys on two occasions in order to give them to some "contractor" for maintenance (never happened while I have been here) and viewings (also never happened) etc. When asked why she needs new spare keys, she just said the others were misplaced or still in the possession of old contractors.

Now, first of all, I dont feel comfortable with some guy with a van entering the apartment while Im not there.
Secondly, there are now at least 2 sets of keys in circulation. I dont know who else has access.

What can I do? What are my rights, and what happens in case of a burglary?

All responses appreciated.

KTRIC

Unre4L wrote: »

Hello guys

I urgently need to know what you think of my situation and my rights in this situation.

Im not in direct contact with my landlord but a property manager acting on behalf of the owner and she doesnt appear have a care in the world. There are multiple issues with the apartment, which I have informed them going back more than 1 year, but nothing has been done.

Anyway, this isnt even the problem. My concern is that this manager has asked me to make duplicate keys on two occasions in order to give them to some "contractor" for maintenance (never happened while I have been here) and viewings (also never happened) etc. When asked why she needs new spare keys, she just said the others were misplaced or still in the possession of old contractors.

Now, first of all, I dont feel comfortable with some (sorry to put it like this), dodgy looking guy with a van entering the apartment while Im not there.
Secondly, there are now at least 2 sets of keys in circulation. I dont know who else has access.

What can I do? What are my rights, and what happens in case of a burglary?

All responses appreciated.

Change the locks, don't give anyone keys, simple.

Unre4L

KTRIC wrote: »

Change the locks, don't give anyone keys, simple.

I would love to, but I need to know if Im within my rights to completely deny them access while Im not present?

You can't change the locks in a rented apartment without the landlord's permission.

Unfortunately this is a risk you take with any property you move in to if the locks are not change between tenants. You have no way of knowing who else has keys to your home and this would be the case whether the landlord had mentioned this or not.

I wouldn't be happy to give keys to contractors that I did not know and trust. This isn't something your landlord can make you do either.

Unre4L

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't change the locks in a rented apartment without the landlord's permission.

Unfortunately this is a risk you take with any property you move in to if the locks are not change between tenants. You have no way of knowing who else has keys to your home and this would be the case whether the landlord had mentioned this or not.

I wouldn't be happy to give keys to contractors that I did not know and trust. This isn't something your landlord can make you do either.

Unfortunately a guy I have never met before now has spare keys to my apartment. And knowing the manager Im dealing with, there is no way she has met this guy in person before taking him on as a contractor.

So the question is, what can I do now?
Demand that she change the locks? If she refuses?

theteal

Unre4L wrote: »

I would love to, but I need to know if Im within my rights to completely deny them access while Im not present?

It's your home, nobody gets in without your permission. Even the landlord can't just waltz in, needs to be agreed with you in advance.

diegroblers

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't change the locks in a rented apartment without the landlord's permission.

I get that, but-

I agree with KTRIC. Change the locks. If you are at some point forced to give out keys, you still can, but I should think that you can make a case for changing it since the manager can't account for the other sets.

Maybe someone will come along and tell you what the legal position is on this (Or you might want to post this in legal, too). But I wouldn't think they can force you to allow contractors to come and go as it strikes the manager's fancy. I'm reasonably sure that they have to notify you so that you can arrange to be present if you want.

In the mean time, don't give them keys, and tell them you are finding out what your rights are.

diegroblers

Clarification: Get the locks changed yourself.

Unre4L

theteal wrote: »

It's your home, nobody gets in without your permission. Even the landlord can't just waltz in, needs to be agreed with you in advance.

I understand, but here is what happened last week for example:

Manager emails me: We need access (in 3 days)
Me: Im at work, please schedule convenient time.
Her: We cant, leave your keys outside.

However, the contractor was really incompetent and copying keys proved to be too difficult, so she just replaced the contractor.

New contractor meets me after work, picks up keys and copies them.
He is just about to leave and I ask him if there will be a viewing. And he responds, Oh, yea, "Tomorrow probably". Kthxbye.

So basically nobody bothered to inform me about the viewing tomorrow OR ask for my permission (I had to ask about their plans). And I have a feeling there will be plenty of viewings while Im at work and without me being informed (since the manager is not onsite and doesnt care).


So, this is their idea of "asking for permission".

Thoie

This may not be the most legal route, but this is what I'd do.

• Change the locks at your own expense, without doing any damage to the property.
• Get three sets of keys - 2 for you, 1 for the landlord/agent.
• Send the agent "their" set of keys with a registered letter stating what you've done, and why. Point out that any repairs, etc. should be carried out at a mutually convenient time, unless it's some kind of serious emergency. Anything that has time for you to go get keys cuts, dropped off, then passed on again does not constitute an emergency situation. State that under no circumstances should the key be given to a 3rd party - either you or the agent should always be present while 3rd parties are on the premises.
• If you find that the agent is allowing people in without reasonable notice, or without being present, you will consider it as entry without permission and refer the matter to both the gardaí and the PRTB.
• Advise that you will not be providing further sets of keys - a professional management company has a responsibility to secure keys.
• Ask permission to install a door chain for use when you're at home.

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/entry-without-permission/

theteal

Sorry dude, I would not be having any of that sh!te. You need to put the foot down. Nobody enters your home without your explicit consent and tbh I'd want to be there if somebody was having a snoop around my living space.

Paulw

Unre4L wrote: »

I understand, but here is what happened last week for example:

Manager emails me: We need access (in 3 days)
Me: Im at work, please schedule convenient time.
Her: We cant, leave your keys outside.

Simple response to that - "No". They have no right to enter the property without your permission. If they have no keys then it makes it much easier for you to say no.

I wouldn't tolerate what they are trying to do here. You are well within your rights to refuse to make duplicates of keys to give to a third party. If the agent has misplaced their set of keys, then that is an issue they should take up with the landlord, not you.

Sunny Dayz

Op they can't enter the property, to carry out repairs or do viewings without giving you adequate notice. If it isn't convenient for you they can't just say stuff it we are going in anyway!

If they enter the property without your permission, they are trespassing!

foggy_lad

Unre4L wrote: »

I would love to, but I need to know if Im within my rights to completely deny them access while Im not present?

Most leases will prohibit changing locks without the landlords consent, you have a legal right to peaceful enjoyment of the property which means nobody else should ever be there without your express permission and without giving notice and you should also be present. This applies to maintenance viewings etc.

You should look for somewhere else and contact the agent and landlord telling them that you have serious concerns regarding the safety and security of the property because there are so many copies of the keys and nobody seems able to account for them.

Tell the landlord and agent you need the locks changed with a new barrel or lock and that if anyone ever enters without you being there or without your express permission you would have no option but to start a case with the prtb. Suggest that you may have a camera set up inside the property for security.

Unre4L

Guys, thanks a million. I have an idea how to approach this now.

I realised that at the very least I need the landlord or the manager to be present for viewings and responsible for them, if I cant make it. Its unacceptable that the manager is organising this remotely. I dont even know the contractors name and he has keys to my apartment!!!

Note, the viewings are not to seek out a new tenant but its for the sale of the whole building which has nothing to do with me.

foggy_lad

Unre4L wrote: »

Guys, thanks a million. I have an idea how to approach this now.

I realised that at the very least I need the landlord or the manager to be present for viewings and responsible for them, if I cant make it. Its unacceptable that the manager is organising this remotely. I dont even know the contractors name and he has keys to my apartment!!!

Note, the viewings are not to seek out a new tenant but its for the sale of the whole building which has nothing to do with me.

I would not trust any manager or agent who lied to me and didn't mention viewings thinking they can just turn up anytime when I am at work or out.

AFAIK if you have a lease you can refuse to allow viewings at all unless it is written into the lease but I would set up a motion sensing IP camera to record any "break-ins" while you are out!

SpaceTime

That's an awful situation.
How are you supposed to know your valuables are safe or that you are personally safe?

Some agents and landlords here still don't seem to comprehend what renting accommodation is.

How would they feel if the bank started dropping in willy nilly to a mortgaged property?