Expensive 1850, 1890, 0818 numbers and the EU Consumer Rights Directive

Ian010

For many years, consumers have complained about the excessive cost of calling 1850, 1890 and 0818 telephone numbers.
www~saynoto1890~com/faq/

These are generally non-inclusive in call bundles and expensive to call from mobile phones.
www~askcomreg~ie/_fileupload/Phone%20Numbers%20Explained%20Final%202011.pdf

Irish consumers recently had a chance to stop businesses using these expensive numbers for their customer service helplines when the EU Consumer Rights Directive (2011/83/EU) was transposed into Irish law as the EUROPEAN UNION (CONSUMER INFORMATION, CANCELLATION AND OTHER RIGHTS) REGULATIONS 2013 (aka 2013/si484). These new regulations take effect on 13 June 2014.

Article 21 of the EU Directive requires post-sale customer helplines to be charged at no more than "basic rate".
eur-lex~europa~eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:304:0064:0088:en:PDF#page=18

This definition obviously includes ordinary geographic numbers and freephone numbers. The definition also allows mobile phone numbers in as much as they are often free to call from other mobiles and are the primary contact point for many small and independent traders.

This was Ireland’s big opportunity to have the various non-geographic "shared cost", "national rate"[sic], "local rate"[sic], and "lo-call"[sic] numbers excluded from the "basic rate" definition. While that wouldn’t have prevented these numbers being used for sales lines, it would have been the beginning of the end for this quite blatant rip off. However, and quite bizarrely, the Irish national legislation defines these expensive numbers as being "basic rate".
www~djei~ie/publications/sis/2013/si484.pdf#page=26

This appears to go against the basic principles of the EU Directive. Consumers will continue to be ripped off, but now with the apparent full backing of a "consumer protection" law that says it’s OK to do so. What went wrong at the consultation stage in May 2013?
www~djei~ie/publications/commerce/2013/CRD.pdf#page=53

How did this nonsense ever get through and into the published legislation? Were ComReg consulted on this? What was their advice?


It is worthy of note that the equivalent consumer protection legislation in the UK defines "basic rate" as geographic (01, 02), geographic-rate (03), standard mobiles (07) and freephone (080) numbers. The "basic rate" definition excludes various non-geographic numbers with a Service Charge (084 and 087). Some of these numbers were previously known as "national rate" (0870) and "local rate" (0845). The UK definition also excludes various "fixed fee" numbers and all Premium Rate numbers (090, 091 and 098). It also excludes various other numbers such as 055, 056 and 070.
www~gov~uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310044/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf#page=23

The UK government has also banned itself from using expensive and non-inclusive 084 and 087 numbers. Many departments have already moved to new 030 numbers or to replacement 034 numbers.
www~gov~uk/government/publications/hmg-guidance-for-customer-service-lines

Hootanany

Vested interests:cool:

Dinarius

Thanks for the post. The number of times I have drilled down through a company's website to find a landline number...!

Very, very Irish.

D.

kitchenkid

To be fair to Irish Water they give the 1890 number and landline 01 707 2828, but I think every public body should give a prominent landline

tricky D

Alternative regular numbers list:

http://www.saynoto1890.com/a-to-z/

Fred Swanson

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delahuntv

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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who does?

Fred Swanson

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delahuntv

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Companies PAY for these services - try ensuring you get the correct information before posting rubbish.


on 1850 numbers the company that has the number pays from 6.7c (calls from eircom landlines in local area) to 24c per minute (calls from meteor/3/tesco)

on 1890 numbers companies pay from 3.17c to 7c per minute.

That's in addition to a €20/month charge

Dinarius

delahuntv wrote: »

Companies PAY for these services - try ensuring you get the correct information before posting rubbish.


on 1850 numbers the company that has the number pays from 6.7c (calls from eircom landlines in local area) to 24c per minute (calls from meteor/3/tesco)

on 1890 numbers companies pay from 3.17c to 7c per minute.

That's in addition to a €20/month charge

So, it's an Eircom gravy train then?

D.

Fred Swanson

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L1011

Whether you get anything from the calls entirely depends on how far up the chain you are. The network provider for those numbers get a termination charge that is much higher than for a geographic number. They aren't going to pass that on to a business with a single number that gets a few calls a day.

Someone with huge call volumes however is either in a position to bargain with their upstream provider, or in the case of a firm like Sky, *be* the upstream provider if they wanted to, as they are also a telco.

1850 calls don't make the recipient money ever in any case due to being fixed fee.

Fred Swanson

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chimmy chonga

When I telephone my credit card company I always use the 'overseas' number which is a regular Irish landline and I can therefore call free of charge on my vodafone bundle.

keithclancy

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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You could look at it the other way, in that people that didn't call them would have to pay for the call center directly through the cost of the product or the service.

Fred Swanson

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Shakespeare's Sister

delahuntv wrote: »

Companies PAY for these services - try ensuring you get the correct information before posting rubbish.


on 1850 numbers the company that has the number pays from 6.7c (calls from eircom landlines in local area) to 24c per minute (calls from meteor/3/tesco)

on 1890 numbers companies pay from 3.17c to 7c per minute.

That's in addition to a €20/month charge

Don't be bringing your truth and reason here!

Not sure how it's "very Irish" either - such numbers are all over the world. Staff may not know the landline number or may be told they're not to give it out, the landline number might be hidden as the company might not want the public knowing where the contact centre is. They may be giving the impression they're in Dublin when they're actually based in Louth or somewhere.
Policies by companies aren't to annoy punters for the craic.

Fred Swanson

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