I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church

mach1982

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church , I am a Catholic and proud one at that . People who say the church is evil, does that mean every catholic, ever priest , nun religious person is evil?No!. There hundreds of good and bad people in Church , just like there are hundreds of good and bad people in society. Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany are all Germans evil, or Japanese people, who were worst than the Germans , because of what their ancestors did . No . We can not judge people on what happen in the past , all we can is learn from it and not let happen again.

I don go around calling all Atheis evil, some of my friend are ones. It like Thomas , he had see the hole in Jesus hand before he believed, he need evidence , proof , which I don't because I been shown it.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

eviltwin

mach1982 wrote: »

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church , I am a Catholic and proud one at that . People who say the church is evil, does that mean every catholic, ever priest , nun religious person is evil?No!. There hundreds of good and bad people in Church , just like there are hundreds of good and bad people in society. Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany are all Germans evil, or Japanese people, who were worst than the Germans , because of what their ancestors did . No . We can not judge people on what happen in the past , all we can is learn from it and not let happen again.

I don go around calling all Atheis evil, some of my friend are ones. It like Thomas , he had see the hole in Jesus hand before he believed, he need evidence , proof , which I don't because I been shown it.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

I think you have to remember that when people attack the church they are really referring to the hierarchy rather than the man/woman on the street who goes to church on a sunday. It might be worth remembering that distinction.

Manach

Personally I think it would be much worst if segments did not, instead just ignored the Church. My own view is that overall it is one of the great institutions and force for good. If this did not draw criticism, a lightnighting rod, then that would be an issue.

o1s1n

mach1982 wrote: »

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church , I am a Catholic and proud one at that . People who say the church is evil, does that mean every catholic, ever priest , nun religious person is evil?No!. There hundreds of good and bad people in Church , just like there are hundreds of good and bad people in society. Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany are all Germans evil, or Japanese people, who were worst than the Germans , because of what their ancestors did . No . We can not judge people on what happen in the past , all we can is learn from it and not let happen again.

I don go around calling all Atheis evil, some of my friend are ones. It like Thomas , he had see the hole in Jesus hand before he believed, he need evidence , proof , which I don't because I been shown it.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

I am sorry but the fact that your first feeling when reading that thread is to just go on the defense baffles me somewhat.

Maybe a little less focus on your own feelings of being offended and more towards the horror and enormity of what has actually been discovered in Tuam wouldn't go amiss?

brian_t

mach1982 wrote: »

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church

Why are you reading threads in the Atheism & Agnosticism forum ?

What else do you expect to find there ?

Sonics2k

mach1982 wrote: »

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church , I am a Catholic and proud one at that . People who say the church is evil, does that mean every catholic, ever priest , nun religious person is evil?No!. There hundreds of good and bad people in Church , just like there are hundreds of good and bad people in society. Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany are all Germans evil, or Japanese people, who were worst than the Germans , because of what their ancestors did . No . We can not judge people on what happen in the past , all we can is learn from it and not let happen again.

I don go around calling all Atheis evil, some of my friend are ones. It like Thomas , he had see the hole in Jesus hand before he believed, he need evidence , proof , which I don't because I been shown it.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

You misunderstand something I think.

The average Atheist or Agnostic does not hate Catholics, or any particularly religious person. They despise and hate the actual Church itself for the crimes committed and covered up by them.

They hate them a bit more than any Govt or person who does similar things, because they claim to be a religious authority acting on the will of God.

I, for example, do not hate Catholics any more than I hate the Canadians or Mexicans. I do hate when good people stand back and ignore and pass off the crimes committed by any organization because they have a bizarre sense of loyalty to them, for no real reason.

The Vatican is a despicable organization, who have willfully covered the crimes and sick deeds of many of it's members for decades. I dislike them as much as I dislike the Saudi, Serbian, North Korean or other place that willfully ends life and damages people under the pretense of "religion and belief".

carlmango11

As well as what the above poster says, I also believe there are a certain amount of people who are not only disgusted by the RCC but also feel some disdain for those who continue to support it.

I'd imagine this subset is a lot smaller but I would definitely consider myself part of it. It baffles me that Irish people continue to go to Catholic churches, rituals, etc. How many more atrocities need to come to light before people cut their ties with the RCC? Is 800 dead babies not enough? 1,600 maybe?

newmug

Sonics2k wrote: »

You misunderstand something I think.

The average Atheist or Agnostic does not hate Catholics, or any particularly religious person. They despise and hate the actual Church itself for the crimes committed and covered up by them.

But "The Church" IS the people! WE are the Church.

Sonics2K wrote: »

I do hate when good people stand back and ignore and pass off the crimes committed by any organization because they have a bizarre sense of loyalty to them, for no real reason.

I know of nobody, Catholic or otherwise, who has a "loyalty" to the Church. We love God, Jesus Christ. We are just a massive club who's common thread is that we love God. Nobody goes around passing off the crimes of other Catholics.

Sonics2k wrote: »

The Vatican is a despicable organization, who have willfully covered the crimes and sick deeds of many of it's members for decades.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. So, so wrong on this. I'm not defending the Vatican out of any sense of loyalty, but as a good man obliged to do something, I'm just pointing out fact that you are wrong. Blaming the Vatican is like a Joe Duffy caller blaming the government for everything.

eviltwin wrote: »

I think you have to remember that when people attack the church they are really referring to the hierarchy rather than the man/woman on the street who goes to church on a sunday. It might be worth remembering that distinction.

I think YOU have to remember, that seeing as it YOU who are doing the Catholic bashing, I think its YOU who should make that distinction.

drumswan

mach1982 wrote: »

Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany

We judge those Germans who are still Nazis today, yes.

mikom

mach1982 wrote: »

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

I wonder were there any brothers buried together in the Tuam septic tank?

Sonics2k

newmug wrote: »

But "The Church" IS the people! WE are the Church.

Yeah, but you're not though, are you.

I am part of the people of Ireland, WE are the Irish. But there is still a group above us that does the day to day running, sets the laws and tells us what is right and wrong.
That is exactly what the Vatican is, nothing more than the Dail of the Catholic Church, except you don't even have a vote in it.

That Church, and the people in charge of it, willfully allowed the crimes of it's followers to go on for decades completely unheeded. And yet there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people out there who are still actively defending them and instead try to fob the blame off on others. Hell, now people are going to extent of saying one of the places was run by the English

newmug wrote: »

I know of nobody, Catholic or otherwise, who has a "loyalty" to the Church. We love God, Jesus Christ. We are just a massive club who's common thread is that we love God. Nobody goes around passing off the crimes of other Catholics.

I'm sorry, but that's a nonsense. Right now, on this very forum there are people -actively- defending the Church. We know for a fact, that various higher members of the Church willfully and actively moved crime committing Priests from one place to another. We now know, that over the course of 40 years just under 800 newborn children were disposed over in a septic tank and there are people out there saying that no crime was done and they did nothing wrong.

That is not very Christian.

newmug wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. So, so wrong on this. I'm not defending the Vatican out of any sense of loyalty, but as a good man obliged to do something, I'm just pointing out fact that you are wrong. Blaming the Vatican is like a Joe Duffy caller blaming the government for everything.

Then why are you defending the Vatican? Do you think it's okay what happened? That they knew of the hundreds of abuse cases and did nothing?
Blaming the Vatican and demanding action is exactly what you should do. Just like when a politician does something wrong, the people tend to demand his resignation and step down, and yes, in most countries politicians do pay for their crimes.

newmug wrote: »

I think YOU have to remember, that seeing as it YOU who are doing the Catholic bashing, I think its YOU who should make that distinction.

I'm yet to see anyone here bash your belief over this latest fiasco. I see a lot of anger toward the hierarchy of the Vatican, which is right and how it should be.

As a final note, you as a Catholic should be furious by this. This group of corrupt, wicked and evil men and women did some horrible things because they could and claimed it just in the name of God. They are the ones responsible for people looking down on Christians, not Dawkins or Dawin or any other Atheist.

They are the sole reason for this hatred, not you or anyone else. They are a poison within your own society, and you should have them stripped of their privileges and claims.

carpejugulum

newmug wrote: »

But "The Church" IS the people! WE are the Church.

The latest mass grave again showed what the hierarchy thinks about its members if they don't behave.

MadYaker

The catholic church as an organisation is absolutely revolting. Yes they have done some good, and the vast majority of priests are good people but that does not excuse the long history of child abuse, mass murder and torture over the last 1000 years that the catholic church is DIRECTLY responsible for. I completely understand people having faith and believing in God but how people can continue to support the RCC as an organisation in light of what we know is completely beyond me.

I know you as a catholic may be sick of people bashing the church but to be fair they deserve it. You shouldn't take it personally, it isn't aimed at you, its aimed at the hierarchy of the RCC who responsible for things like this and the subsequent cover ups. Im my opinion the RCC are a plague on this nation who while doing some good, have caused far too much misery and suffering.

Zed Bank

mach1982 wrote: »

After reading some comments, from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713 in Atheism & Agnosticism , I felt angry. They are taring all Catholic's with the same brush , I am Catholic and I'm not evil , that doesn't mean that I not capable of evil acts

I’m sick an tired of people , bashing the Church , I am a Catholic and proud one at that . People who say the church is evil, does that mean every catholic, ever priest , nun religious person is evil?No!. There hundreds of good and bad people in Church , just like there are hundreds of good and bad people in society. Do we judge the the Germans of today for what their parents and grandparents role in Nazi Germany are all Germans evil, or Japanese people, who were worst than the Germans , because of what their ancestors did . No . We can not judge people on what happen in the past , all we can is learn from it and not let happen again.

I don go around calling all Atheis evil, some of my friend are ones. It like Thomas , he had see the hole in Jesus hand before he believed, he need evidence , proof , which I don't because I been shown it.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone . “ Tale plank out of your own eye before you take splinter out your brothers”

Why are you quoting bible verses in an attempt to rebuke atheists? Atheist don't follow the bible. Stop trying to force your morality on the rest of us.

I have every right to criticize an organisation who's practices I don't agree with and have even more right to expose and discuss some of the atrocities that the organisation has committed.

This is not about painting all catholics with the one brush. It's about highlighting the backwards morality and corruption in the Catholic church.

Littlehorny

I think the OP needs to ask himself/ herself why people hate or attack the Catholic Church, if it has been such a force for good then why are people turning their backs on it?
The main thing for me is the sheer hypocrisy of the church, you cannot be the moral compass for a country and do the things they done, i'm sorry you just can't. Also the bare minimum of compensation paid to victims just shows to me that it's all about the money and the power that comes with it.
The church has enjoyed hundreds of years of rule on this island and they ruined themselves OP.

Benny_Cake

Mod: I don't think we need to be bringing remarks made in other forums into this one. I'm closing this thread as it's descending into an angry mess, and much the same ground is being covered here .

MadYaker

This is the same church that preaches for the sanctity of unborn life and campaigns vigorously against abortion. Its absolutely mind boggling.