Meteor Cannot Send Text to Orange - "User's Problem"

pgal

For some time I have not been able to get text messages through to a French Mobile - Orange customer. The Orange number can text and call me. I can call the Orange number. Other Meteor mobiles cannot text the Orange number. I can get a text through to the Orange number using a Vodafone mobile.
Meteor continues to charge me for the texts that do not get delivered. Meteor Help Desk say that this is an Orange issue and that I should contact Orange! A supervisor refuses to speak to me.
I maintain that the contacts here are between Meteor and Orange and between Meteor and me.

whiterebel

pgal wrote: »

For some time I have not been able to get text messages through to a French Mobile - Orange customer. The Orange number can text and call me. I can call the Orange number. Other Meteor mobiles cannot text the Orange number. I can get a text through to the Orange number using a Vodafone mobile.
Meteor continues to charge me for the texts that do not get delivered. Meteor Help Desk say that this is an Orange issue and that I should contact Orange! A supervisor refuses to speak to me.
I maintain that the contacts here are between Meteor and Orange and between Meteor and me.

It could be either. A routing issue could be the problem. Your contact on Orange needs to give their details and your number to Orange, and you should do the same with Meteor. I've found no one accepts responsibility in the beginning, but hang on in there.

pgal

Thanks for your reply.
I'm afraid that "contacts" in my original post should have been "contracts"!
Despite Meteor's lack of interest, I will, as you suggest, ask my son (in France) to contact Orange.
Thanks
Peter

Paulw

Not every operator can contact every other operator. Most have agreements to allow traffic between them, but sometimes they don't. More often than not, voice is permitted, but SMS might not be.

In this situation, it may not be the fault of Meteor. Maybe Orange don't want an agreement to allow incoming SMS from a foreign network, without agreement.

So, you send the SMS - you are charged. The SMS leaves Meteor network and is forwarded to Orange network. Orange have no agreement with Meteor, so they simply discard the message.

You paid for it, and Meteor sent the message forward. So, they have fulfilled their obligation. They are not responsible for delivery to the other user (your son).

There is very little that can be done.

pgal

Thank you for your reply.

I do suspect that you are correct and that Meteor may not have a contract with Orange in relation to text messages.

Your view of the legal situation is incorrect however, in my opinion. Meteor charged me for a service, that is, to deliver my message to the addressee. If Meteor knowingly takes money from me when they cannot provide that service, they are defrauding me of the fee.

Your view of the situation would permit, say, An Post to put Air Mail letters posted in Ireland in a Post Box in France KNOWING that the postal service in France would simply "discard" them.

Take your scenario closer to home. If Meteor did not have a contract with Vodafone (to accept texts), are you suggesting that they can charge their customers for such texts knowing that they will be discarded by Vodafone (and not inform their customers that the texts have not been delivered to the addressee)?

I suggest that if Meteor knows that it cannot deliver my texts (to the addressee) they have a duty to inform me of that, refund the charges that i have paid and permit me to cancel my contract.

Thanks for taking the interest.

whiterebel

That wouldn't seem likely seeing as eMobile (who use the Meteor system) have Orange as their preferred partner in France.

I was going to suggest you contact Meteor on Boards, but I see you have on their forum.

pgal

Thanks very much for that. A very interesting piece of information.

Thanks

P

Paulw

pgal wrote: »

I do suspect that you are correct and that Meteor may not have a contract with Orange in relation to text messages.

Your view of the legal situation is incorrect however, in my opinion. Meteor charged me for a service, that is, to deliver my message to the addressee.

Take your scenario closer to home. If Meteor did not have a contract with Vodafone (to accept texts), are you suggesting that they can charge their customers for such texts knowing that they will be discarded by Vodafone (and not inform their customers that the texts have not been delivered to the addressee)?

No, Meter charge you for sending a text. The delivery part is not what they are charging for. You already know it doesn't work.

The situation is not that uncommon actually, and used to happen a lot with new foreign networks. It would be less common an issue with large operators, but Meteor isn't a large operator.

It actually was the situation, for a while, that Vodafone couldn't send to Meteor, when they started out, but Meteor could send to Vodafone, because of the routing they used.

You send a text - it goes from your phone to the SMS centre. That then forwards it to the next carrier on the listed route, if they don't have a direct agreement and a direct route. If someone along the way doesn't have an agreement, it can discard the message. That is not the fault of the sending network. It has no responsibility to guarantee delivery.

I'm sorry to hear of your situation, but there is very little you can do, other than yourself and your son complain to your own networks, and hope that somewhere along the line they come to an agreement.

pgal

Thanks for your reply, Paul.

I have taken advice on the legal situation and I am advised that Meteor, by charging me for this "service", that is delivering a text to the number that I specified, has accepted a CONTRACT.

Sending a text into cyberspace, knowing full well that it would not be delivered to the addressee, does not fulfill that contract.

Clearly, the amount of money involved would not warrant my "going legal" with a claim for breach of contract but, a course of action open to me would be to discontinue as a Meteor customer, cancelling my direct debit, as Meteor has breached the contract.

I don't know if I can move my number (without Meteor's consent) but at the rate which this failure by Meteor to respond to me is stressing me, I can live with a new mobile number!

Thanks again,

Peter

whiterebel

pgal wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, Paul.

I have taken advice on the legal situation and I am advised that Meteor, by charging me for this "service", that is delivering a text to the number that I specified, has accepted a CONTRACT.

Sending a text into cyberspace, knowing full well that it would not be delivered to the addressee, does not fulfill that contract.

Clearly, the amount of money involved would not warrant my "going legal" with a claim for breach of contract but, a course of action open to me would be to discontinue as a Meteor customer, cancelling my direct debit, as Meteor has breached the contract.

I don't know if I can move my number (without Meteor's consent) but at the rate which this failure by Meteor to respond to me is stressing me, I can live with a new mobile number!

Thanks again,

Peter

Have Meteor confirmed to you that they have no agreement with Orange for texts? If not you seem to be getting ahead of yourself at an almighty gallop. Has the person on the Orange contract contacted them about the problem yet? This is not unusual in case you think it is, it happened to me with Three and with eMobile. Both were sorted out within a couple of days.

pgal

Thanks again.

In a word, No, Meteor have not acknowledged that they do not have a contract with Orange. I think that they would be very unwise to do so - from their point of view. The Help Desk did, however, inform me that Meteor was 'unable' to contact Orange on this - suggesting that it was up to me to 'contact Orange in France' (however I could do that I don't know!).

I have been told by a friend today that she cannot get texts from her Meteor phone to Orange UK. I've been Googling 'Orange texts issues', etc, but to no avail, however.

I have been on the Meteor's Help Desk, a Supervisor there would not speak with me, and I've made a formal Customer Complaint. If Meteor were to admit that there is an issue, it would be something.

As regards 'getting ahead of yourself at an almighty gallop', I was calm enough before being effectively told to 'F... Off' by Meteor's Help Desk!

Thanks.

pgal

By way of an update, just to let you know that 'Meteor_Adam' on the Meteor Forum has informed me that it is an issue at the 'recipient' end (there is NO recipient, of course) and that it is up to the 'recipient' to contact Orange!

Meteor have still not confirmed that they have a contract or other arrangement with Orange to get texts to Orange customers.

Maybe somebody who is with Meteor could try to text an Orange customer? Let me know? (Preferably France but a friend told me that she cannot text Orange mobiles in UK!)

Max Power 2010

pgal wrote: »

By way of an update, just to let you know that 'Meteor_Adam' on the Meteor Forum has informed me that it is an issue at the 'recipient' end (there is NO recipient, of course) and that it is up to the 'recipient' to contact Orange!

Meteor have still not confirmed that they have a contract or other arrangement with Orange to get texts to Orange customers.

Maybe somebody who is with Meteor could try to text an Orange customer? Let me know? (Preferably France but a friend told me that she cannot text Orange mobiles in UK!)

If Meteor have a Roaming agreement with Orange FR ( they do) they would have an international SMS agreement.

In saying that , every now and again Operators review their agreements against their traffic and add networks into a blacklist, sometimes operators get blacklisted in error, it's probably best getting back to Meteor on this, as they are the sender they can trace it and see where it fails, Orange wouldn't see it all so that could be pointless asking them.

pgal

Thank you very much for that very interesting point.

I will revert to Meteor and see what they say.

Thanks

Peter

pgal

On Facebook, Meteor have acknowledged that they have an "agreement" with Orange.

They still say that it is up to me to sort it out with Orange!

whiterebel

pgal wrote: »

On Facebook, Meteor have acknowledged that they have an "agreement" with Orange.

They still say that it is up to me to sort it out with Orange!

Then, as I suggested in the very beginning, it sounds like a routing issue. The Orange account needs to be changed to accept texts from your number. This has to be done at the receiving and.

pgal

Thanks again.

My son, the intended recipient, did contact Orange some time ago. Their attitude is that it is not their problem as the texts are not reaching their network!

P

whiterebel

pgal wrote: »

Thanks again.

My son, the intended recipient, did contact Orange some time ago. Their attitude is that it is not their problem as the texts are not reaching their network!

P

Which is exactly what I said to you in my very first post. You need to keep at Meteor, and your son needs to keep at Orange. Exactly the same thing happens when it his problem occurs between Irish networks. You need to keep at them to fix the routing issue. Seeing as Meteor are sending, it would appear to be a problem at Orange's end. Can you ring his mobile ok? And can he text you ok?

pgal

Hi.
Thanks for your continued interest in this. I can call my son's French Orange mobile. He can call and text my Meteor mobile. Similar situation for my daughter's Meteor mobile.
I have asked Meteor if they would send a test text to my son's mobile. If it gets through, I'll leave them alone. If it fails, they must accept that there is an issue and get it sorted. Seems reasonable to me!
Thanks.
P

phili_g

Having worked for an operator before and having resolved similar issues in the past it is very definitely Meteor's responsibility to resolve.

Essentially Meteor will use a 3rd party provider (almost certainly their parent company eircom) to route their international SMS traffic.

eircom will need to know where to route the signalling message to - they will forward it to the next routing provider and so on until the message is delivered to Orange France.

At some point along the way there is data missing in a routing table and the message just gets lost. This is after you have been charged for the SMS which happens once the message is sent by Meteor SMSC

OP, phone Meteor customer care again and insist they raise this towards their messaging team - make sure they give you a reference number.

The messaging team will be able to send a test message to the Orange number to identify that there is no routing information returning and raise an issue accordingly.

If they don't do this tell them you will escalate to the head of customer care - you should be able to get their details from linkedin

By the way this has nothing to do with being able to call the Orange number as voice and SMS are carried over different protocols and hence different routing

pgal

Thank you very much Phili for a most informative and helpful post.

I have asked Meteor via the Meteor forum to send a test-text to my son's number on France Meteor. As you suggest, I will escalate that now to a more formal request.

Thanks again.

Peter