Sansa (contain book spoilers)

martingriff

I was thinking the other day after finishing the last available book that you see all the Starks that are still alive(ish) they are all in a major position except Sansa. Jon (do not think he is dead or unJon) is getting ready to go to war with Ramsay, you have Bran in the North, you have Arya as going on Assassins presumly in Westros Caitlin as Stoneheart taking on Freys and whatever she will do to Jamie hell even Rickon is in a position to help if he is rescued.

The only one I do not see with a clear position is Sansa. Yes she was involved in some way with Joffreys death and you could say her aunt dying but where are they going with her I do not see it.

chickenboy

By the end of the latest book, Littlefinger is setting her up to wed the Arryn heir. This would leave her as the possible heir to Winterfell (depending on what happens to Rickon) and with the Vale under her control aswel. A fairly strong position I think, once sweetrobin has an accident near the moon door of course!

martingriff

chickenboy wrote: »

By the end of the latest book, Littlefinger is setting her up to wed the Arryn heir. This would leave her as the possible heir to Winterfell (depending on what happens to Rickon) and with the Vale under her control aswel. A fairly strong position I think, once sweetrobin has an accident near the moon door of course!

Had not thought of that actually it does make sense but will it be allowed would he not marry Dany as they marry in family

RobbingBandit

They wont be back near the moon door until spring as the mountains will be frozen and impassible now.

Thargor

Littlefinger will get him if he wants, he's Littlefinger! Access to the Moon door wont mean anything.

I think thats her current role, replacement for Cat on Littlefingers arm along with rights to Winterfell and the Vale, all as a staging point for him taking the Iron Throne and all the rest. Maybe she'll cut his throat some night knowing GRRM though.

Oranage2

chickenboy wrote: »

By the end of the latest book, Littlefinger is setting her up to wed the Arryn heir. This would leave her as the possible heir to Winterfell (depending on what happens to Rickon) and with the Vale under her control aswel. A fairly strong position I think, once sweetrobin has an accident near the moon door of course!

I thought that too but reading her wiki page it has this

Petyr then reveals his plans to Sansa for eventual marriage to the Arryn heir after Robert, Harrold Hardyng, and an eventual plan to reveal her true identity and to reclaim Winterfell in her name.

quickbeam

But surely she can't legally marry while Tyrion is still alive?

Daith

quickbeam wrote: »

But surely she can't legally marry while Tyrion is still alive?

I think the marriage can be annulled if it was never consummated?

DM addict

Daith wrote: »

I think the marriage can be annulled if it was never consummated?

My instinct is to say yes, it could be. But that might be more hassle than it's worth for Sansa to prove. I'm sure the Lannisters could rustle up a few fake witnesses if needs be, who'd claim to having overheard her talking about shagging Tyrion. Not sure it would come to that though.

quickbeam

Also if she's to marry in secret then it'd sort of give the game away if annulment proceedings were started. I'm not sure what the processes in Westros are for such a thing, but presumably you can't annul a marriage in secret.

Daith

quickbeam wrote: »

Also if she's to marry in secret then it'd sort of give the game away if annulment proceedings were started. I'm not sure what the processes in Westros are for such a thing, but presumably you can't annul a marriage in secret.

Send a crow to Kings Landing - "Didn't shag Tyrion, the North is mine, P.S Winter is Coming"

I guess if you look at Margaery she was tested by the Septa checking her hymen but even Cersei said it could have been broken by horseback riding.

However is Sansa's hymen was still intact that would be an easy way?

Paddy Cow

DM addict wrote: »

My instinct is to say yes, it could be. But that might be more hassle than it's worth for Sansa to prove. I'm sure the Lannisters could rustle up a few fake witnesses if needs be, who'd claim to having overheard her talking about shagging Tyrion. Not sure it would come to that though.

The only Lannister left is Cersei and she is a disgraced mess.

TimeToShine

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The only Lannister left is Cersei and she is a disgraced mess.

Yup, the Lannisters are finished.

Thargor

Tommens still on the throne, probably end up a Tyrell puppet though.

Daith

Thargor wrote: »

Tommens still on the throne, probably end up a Tyrell puppet though.

Or a Varys puppet which could be really interesting.

Paddy Cow

Thargor wrote: »

Tommens still on the throne, probably end up a Tyrell puppet though.

Tommen thinks he is a Baratheon.

Thargor

His mother will cure him of that. I think now that Varys and his little birds have started outright killing people he wont be long for this world though, also doesnt Varys favour putting a Targaryan back on the throne?

Potatoeman

Thargor wrote: »

His mother will cure him of that. I think now that Varys and his little birds have started outright killing people he wont be long for this world though, also doesnt Varys favour putting a Targaryan back on the throne?

There is a theory that he is one and it fits with the story so far.

TimeToShine

Potatoeman wrote: »

There is a theory that he is one and it fits with the story so far.

Is the theory not that he's a Blackfyre?

Hard to believe he's a Targ as they're all pretty much accounted for.

Mickeroo

TimeToShine wrote: »

Is the theory not that he's a Blackfyre?

Hard to believe he's a Targ as they're all pretty much accounted for.

This is a new one on me, didn't think Varys was thought to be Targ or Blackfyre just that he orchestrated the whole Aegon rescue/deception?

TimeToShine

Mickeroo wrote: »

This is a new one on me, didn't think Varys was thought to be Targ or Blackfyre just that he orchestrated the whole Aegon rescue/deception?

I think the main one is that Illyrio is a Blackfyre and Aegon is his son. It's the one backed by the most evidence and the others are just kind of sprouts from this seed. The main evidence for Aegon being a Blackfyre is that three headed dragon sign from the inn in Essos that was black (like the dragon in the Targ flag) but ended up on Westerosi shores "red with rust" (like the Blackfyre equivalent) - probably foreshadowing Aegon turning up to Westeros as a "fake" Targaryen.

Either way, if Illyrio and Varys did grow up together like we're told then it would make sense why he would join his plight. Varys wants what is best for the realm, and it seems like Aegon was brought up to rule - so it doesn't matter if he's legitimate or not. It could be that Varys is the Blackfyre/Targ and Illyrio hitched his wagon to the cause because it was the most likely to succeed.

TBH there are so many explorable avenues that I struggle to see how he'll get through it in two books. The fact that he had the two chatting in the very first book indicates that this is indeed a pivotal plot point and not a red herring.

Potatoeman

TimeToShine wrote: »

Is the theory not that he's a Blackfyre?

Hard to believe he's a Targ as they're all pretty much accounted for.

Yes, my mistake.

Paddy Cow

Thargor wrote: »

His mother will cure him of that.

Cersei has no influence over Tommen anymore. Even Cersei doesn't think much of herself at this stage. The Lannisters are no longer a political force in King's Landing. It remains to be seen what effect Tyrion and Jamie have on the outcome of the realm.

Liam O

Depending on what happens with Jaime he'd still have some power. I wonder if Varys would have a good enough opinion of Jaime to sort him out after they take control. It might be a case of when Cersei dies now but I wouldn't be against peacefully removing Tommen from the throne and legitimising him as a Lannister and depending on what happens with Jaime and Stoneheart allowing Jaime to father him. It wouldn't work practically but that would be my ideal ending on that story thread.

celica00

I think it could be possible, that Sansa somehow turns into a "Cercei"...maybe less cruel

Thargor

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Cersei has no influence over Tommen anymore. Even Cersei doesn't think much of herself at this stage. The Lannisters are no longer a political force in King's Landing. It remains to be seen what effect Tyrion and Jamie have on the outcome of the realm.

As Ive said in many threads, GRRM did not create Ser Robert Strong so he could stand around stinking up the place. Cersei is about to make a comeback!

Rosy Posy

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Cersei has no influence over Tommen anymore. Even Cersei doesn't think much of herself at this stage. The Lannisters are no longer a political force in King's Landing. It remains to be seen what effect Tyrion and Jamie have on the outcome of the realm.

My reading of it was that Kevan was killed in order to get Cersei back in power and continue cocking things up for the Lannisters by making enemies and alienating people. Kevan was about to do a pr number on Tommens rule that would have strengthened his position and ultimately made things harder for the incoming Targareans.