How soon before DART is automated?

Mr Pseudonym

Given salary costs, and the limitations having drivers has on running times, it would be very favourable if the DART were automated. I'm aware that DARTs have to share the tracks with other categories of train, but I assume that problem could be overcome.

The multi-line Docklands Light Railway in London is largely automated, so I don't see why a simple single-line DART couldn't be. The DLR has a slightly slower top speed than the DART, but not significantly.

Any thoughts?

LoonyLovegood

I can't see it happening for a long time, mainly due to the cost of purchasing new darts. Maybe in the future, when the current stock needs to be upgraded. But there's no point in doing it now, particularly when IE is in such dire financial straits.

Arthur Beesley

I'm sure the drivers union would welcome this development.

micosoft

Not going to happen. Driverless networks are designed to be driverless from the ground-up like DLR, use switching and controls designed with driverless in mind and certainly do not share track with mainline services. Not doable IMHO within a reasonable timespan (<30 years).

Ste.phen

Wasn't the original DART spec such that it could be made driverless pretty easily?

Mr Pseudonym

micosoft wrote: »

Not going to happen. Driverless networks are designed to be driverless from the ground-up like DLR, use switching and controls designed with driverless in mind and certainly do not share track with mainline services. Not doable IMHO within a reasonable timespan (<30 years).

THIRTY YEARS?! That seems like an awfully long time to me! Thirty years ago the web was in its infancy.

Edit: hang on...dodgy maths! The web...hadn't even been invented!!

micosoft

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

THIRTY YEARS?! That seems like an awfully long time to me! Thirty years ago the web was in its infancy.

Edit: hang on...dodgy maths! The web...hadn't even been invented!!

Rail investments have a far longer life cycle then the internets. We were using 40 year old locomotives up to recently. Put it another way - all the darts and intercity trains we just bought which have a lifespan of 30 years would be made obsolete (retro fitting is not really feasible). Computers have a lifespan of three years... making it much easier to rip out and upgrade.

Mr Pseudonym

micosoft wrote: »

Rail investments have a far longer life cycle then the internets. We were using 40 year old locomotives up to recently. Put it another way - all the darts and intercity trains we just bought which have a lifespan of 30 years would be made obsolete (retro fitting is not really feasible). Computers have a lifespan of three years... making it much easier to rip out and upgrade.

Fair enough. But, I can't imagine it would take that long.

corktina

never gonna happen

goingnowhere

Ste.phen wrote: »

Wasn't the original DART spec such that it could be made driverless pretty easily?

Yes, there was provision for ATO.

The issue is down the unsecured nature of the DART route. So you can certainly automate the driving but you would still need a human

BethG

goingnowhere wrote: »

Yes, there was provision for ATO.

The issue is down the unsecured nature of the DART route. So you can certainly automate the driving but you would still need a human

It was considered that DART operate driverless on board with a guard in cab responsible for operating train doors and passengers boarding and alighting. The problem with driverless trains is that, in the event of a failure of ATO or other faults there is nobody on board to drive the train or deal with same so CIE opted for the safer and more practical option of driver/guards.

MGWR

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

I'm sure the drivers union would welcome this development.

Driverless trains are still subsidised. Doesn't save the public any money.

Automated trains go back to the 1960s, on systems like the Barcelona Metro Line 2, London's Victoria Line and Philadelphia/New Jersey's "PATCO Speedline".