evict tenant

problemss

Hi,
Gave notice to the tenant and say that i wanna sell the house but found out my brother need the house to rent on rent allowance because cant get any house on welfare in these days. Already give her notice and all but tenant doesn't wanna leave the house. What can i do to get her out because my brother need that house soon. Will i get fine if i change the house lock ? How long does it take to go to court with PRTB ?

BorneTobyWilde

Doesn't seem a fair reason to evict someone. She done nothing wrong.

problemss

Yea. But i need it for my family member and she also didn't pay rent in 4 months . In the part 4 tenancy said that can terminate tenancy if need it for family member.

athtrasna

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Doesn't seem a fair reason to evict someone. She done nothing wrong.

Actually it is. You can break a part four tenancy as a landlord under specific circumstances, one being needing the property for a family member and another being to sell the property.

OP under no circumstances should you change the locks. Unless you want a fine of about 10k. Google legally evicting a tenant

Kristopherus

You cannot evict her for that flimsy reason. And defo your brother skiving off the state to provide you with an income stinks:rolleyes:

GerardKeating

problemss wrote: »

Hi,
Gave notice to the tenant and say that i wanna sell the house but found out my brother need the house to rent on rent allowance because cant get any house on welfare in these days. Already give her notice and all but tenant doesn't wanna leave the house. What can i do to get her out because my brother need that house soon. Will i get fine if i change the house lock ? How long does it take to go to court with PRTB ?

Needing it for self or a family member is a valid "excuse" to evict.

TimeToShine

Don't touch the locks. Look up the proper procedure and follow it. Start by giving her written notice if you haven't already - she'll then have a fixed time period in which to leave depending on the type of tenancy.

problemss

I need to pay mortgage for the house and she is not paying rent. Need to wait around 12-18 months to go to court and by then my house will be taken by the bank and my brother will become homeless. That s ridiculous.

Gongoozler

Jesus I would've thought people would know you can be asked to leave for this purpose. How do people function in the world.

OP I'd say contact the prtb about what you should do to get her out. Do not change the locks. Do everything by the book. Has she not paid rent? For how long?

Bigcheeze

problemss wrote: »

I need to pay mortgage for the house and she is not paying rent. Need to wait around 12-18 months to go to court and by then my house will be taken by the bank and my brother will become homeless. That s ridiculous.

We're not allowed to recommend breaking the law so you'll have to weigh up on the one hand the potential consequences of kicking out the tenant who has not paid rent in 4 months and on the other hand not getting rent for 18 months.

I know what I'd do but it's against the rules to recommend it.

problemss

She didn't pay in 4 months and the banks are giving me warning letter and all. If i wait for court and keep letting her stay in the house it will ended up the bank take the house.

athtrasna

problemss wrote: »

She didn't pay in 4 months and the banks are giving me warning letter and all. If i wait for court and keep letting her stay in the house it will ended up the bank take the house.

Have you given her a 14 day notice for non payment of rent followed by 28 day notice of eviction? You can't do anything until you've done both

Cuddlesworth

Bigcheeze wrote: »

We're not allowed to recommend breaking the law so you'll have to weigh up on the one hand the potential consequences of kicking out the tenant who has not paid rent in 4 months and on the other hand not getting rent for 18 months.

I know what I'd do but it's against the rules to recommend it.

If your in a situation where your worried about repossession due to money problems, evicting somebody illegally is about the worst thing you can do. Look at the PRTB cases, 10k is around average. And he won't get his rent back either.

cerastes

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Doesn't seem a fair reason to evict someone. She done nothing wrong.

Even without the additional information that she's not paying, selling or using the house for yourself or a family member are perfectly legitimate reasons to end a part 4 tenancy. No less fair than someone not paying, which I believe is acceptable to end any tenancy.

Kristopherus wrote: »

You cannot evict her for that flimsy reason. And defo your brother skiving off the state to provide you with an income stinks:rolleyes:

Yes, they can, nor is it flimsy, their brother doing this is no different to anyone else doign it, are they also skiving off the state, its as reasonable to let to a family meber as anyone else, although it may bring its own problems.

OP, termination of a tenancy for non payment is a 2-3 step process, depending on if its a fixed term tenancy or a part 4. I suggest you read the prtb and rta2004.

You should have initiated this as soon as they failed to pay, first notice is usually an informal warning but best in writing and registered but back that up with email/text and delivery by hand, then the 14 day notice to rectify the matter, then I think its 28 days to vacate, at that stage if they were late in making good by the 14th day, I think they could even still be evicted if they paid up to date after that, but it would probably be more difficult, if they dont make good, you kind of have them and Id initiate the PRTB, but id keep the tenant informed so they have the option of backing down and you can tell them landlords check the PRTB records for defaulters like this and you will push through with it, then you'd have to do that, however it takes.
But dont change the locks or you'll be fcuked.

problemss

The main thing is my brother really need a house to stay. As i say no landlord will accept rent allowance. And the house he is renting is for sale.

problemss

Thanks for all the info. The least thing i would do now is changing the lock. Not worth paying the fine. But is also not worth if the bank repossession the house. The <tenant>do me head in doesn't wanna leave the house.

TimeToShine

problemss wrote: »

She didn't pay in 4 months and the banks are giving me warning letter and all. If i wait for court and keep letting her stay in the house it will ended up the bank take the house.

She hasn't paid rent in 4 months? Am I interpreting this correctly?

cerastes

problemss wrote: »

The main thing is my brother really need a house to stay. As i say no landlord will accept rent allowance. And the house he is renting is for sale.

If that house is for sale, maybe he can negotiate with the landlord to hold on till its sold, and move at the latest possible time as sale agreed can be some time, maybe they can accommodate his landlord to work around the sale, landlord might want them gone as they think its easier to manage the sale, but the rent might be helpful for that person too.

problemss

She said the rent allowance place stop her payment because i gave her notice to leave the house.

athtrasna

problemss wrote: »

Thanks for all the info. The least thing i would do now is changing the lock. Not worth paying the fine. But is also not worth if the bank repossession the house. The bitch do me head in doesn't wanna leave the house.

You still haven't answered the question. Have you issued her with a 14 day notice for rent arrears and a 28 day eviction notice?

The_Morrigan

problemss wrote: »

Thanks for all the info. The least thing i would do now is changing the lock. Not worth paying the fine. But is also not worth if the bank repossession the house. The <tenant>do me head in doesn't wanna leave the house.

Watch your language please

Bigcheeze

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If your in a situation where your worried about repossession due to money problems, evicting somebody illegally is about the worst thing you can do. Look at the PRTB cases, 10k is around average. And he won't get his rent back either.

10k fine vs 18 months lost rent. Op is not getting the rent arrears no matter what option they select.

I suppose the op can just say they can't afford to pay the fine.

problemss

The landlord say if the house is sold you have 2 months notice to go. So in that 2 months if the ......still in the house so where is my bro gonna go ? Homeless and let the........ stay in the house. Doesn't sound good.

The_Morrigan

Bigcheeze wrote: »

10k fine vs 18 months lost rent. Op is not getting the rent arrears no matter what option they select.

I suppose the op can just say they can't afford to pay the fine.

Stop making suggestive posts that you know break the rules.

athtrasna

problemss wrote: »

The landlord say if the house is sold you have 2 months notice to go. So in that 2 months if the ...... still in the house so where is my bro gonna go ? Homeless and let the.......stay in the house. Doesn't sound good.

Your brother is an adult, let him sort his own problem. In the meantime you need to deal with your house issue.

TimeToShine

Give her the written notice. That gives her 14 days.

Give her the eviction notice in writing. Another 28 days.

If she is still there call the gards.

fussyonion

problemss wrote: »

The landlord say if the house is sold you have 2 months notice to go. So in that 2 months if the ....... still in the house so where is my bro gonna go ? Homeless and let the .......stay in the house. Doesn't sound good.

Calling your tenant names is really not necessary. You were happy to have her as a tenant until you decided your brother needed the house.
I wish your tenant all the best and hope she finds a place with a Landlord who knows how to treat people.

problemss

I am dealing and also trying to help my bro. But the problem is the tenant doesn't wanna leave. Just wanna know how to evict her.

athtrasna

fussyonion wrote: »

You were happy to have her as a tenant until you decided your brother needed the house.
I wish your tenant all the best and hope she finds a place with a Landlord who knows how to treat people.

The OP already said that they told the tenant they were selling the house BEFORE finding out the brother wanted to move in.

athtrasna

problemss wrote: »

I am dealing and also trying to help my bro. But the problem is the tenant doesn't wanna leave. Just wanna know how to evict her.

FOR THE THIRD TIME!! Have you issued the 14 day notice of payment arrears and after those 14 days elapsed then a 28 day notice of eviction. That's how you LEGALLY start procedures.

problemss

I issued her a letter and the date to leave about selling the house. She should have gone by 29 June but she say she gonna fight to court.

Larry Wildman

fussyonion wrote: »

Calling your tenant names is really not necessary. You were happy to have her as a tenant until you decided your brother needed the house.
I wish your tenant all the best and hope she finds a place with a Landlord who knows how to treat people.

The tenant hasn't paid the rent for four months.

She deserves to be turfed out and to be black listed so she can't mess anyone else around in the future.

fussyonion

OK fine, so I missed the bit where he said she hadn't paid rent in four months but I think resorting to calling her names makes the OP look really unprofessional.

athtrasna

problemss wrote: »

I issued her a letter and the date to leave about selling the house. She should have gone by 29 June but she say she gonna fight to court.

Your problem is that your "selling the house" doesn't sound credible now that you've replaced it with "a family member needs it", while both are grounds to end a Part IV tenancy, it's very convenient that you've had two such grounds.

You won't be able to argue based on her non payment of rent if you haven't issued a 14 day notice of arrears.

TimeToShine

problemss wrote: »

I issued her a letter and the date to leave about selling the house. She should have gone by 29 June but she say she gonna fight to court.

I'm willing to bet she's talking out of her rear end with regards to going to court.

You are coming across as a pushover and she knows this. You're clueless. First things first, give her written notice of rent arrears. Then a notice of eviction. Follow procedure or you will get burned on the off chance she actually knows what she's on about and takes it to the PRTB.

problemss

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'm willing to bet she's talking out of her rear end with regards to going to court.

You are coming across as a pushover and she knows this. You're clueless. First things first, give her written notice of rent arrears. Then a notice of eviction. Follow procedure or you will get burned on the off chance she actually knows what she's on about and takes it to the PRTB.

You are right. She does know what she is doing and just delay to stay in the house.

cerastes

problemss wrote: »

She said the rent allowance place stop her payment because i gave her notice to leave the house.

Sounds suspect, how would they know unless she told them then?
Dont engage with her other than the formal process to get her to make good her arrears and follow the eviction process according to how its done
1. informal notice of the issue (write it out, text and email if possible, to ensure you know she received it)
2. Issue the 14 day notice to pay arrears
3. After the 14th day, issue the 28 days notice to quit the property.

Tell her what each step is, look up the PRTB site yourself and confirm this is still the process and also ring the PRTB if you need to. Ask them when you should initiate the complaint against the tenant for non payment of rent and try get some details to confirm this, I see no harm doing it now, you're already 4 months in, your case will only be heard if you are registered and you submit a complaint, should have done that after engaging wih tenat when non payment first occurred and if they didnt give rent over, best do it now.
You can get them out just as quick or quicker if they are non compliant by them not paying rent as if you want them out for selling/for own use/relatives use. As in those cases you still need to give appropriate notice according to how long they have been tenants, how long is that?

It sounds harsh but if they arent paying they need to go and you should persuade them by letting them know you follow them to the ends of the earth and that you will put a judgement on them that will destroy their lives, never get credit again. Dont bring the kosh down until you know they are refusing, give them the opportunity to make good any rent owed, but if they fob you off or dont follow up any plan to repay be prepared to tell them you will take action if they dont, and then do that.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

10k fine vs 18 months lost rent. Op is not getting the rent arrears no matter what option they select.

I suppose the op can just say they can't afford to pay the fine.

Well better than giving the tenant money too as well as them paying no rent, this way the OP could get them out legally, without a fine and could still follow them up in court to get what they are owed, even if that never bore fruit, Id do my best to slap a judgement on them, but Id tell them I was doing it first so they know what the consequences are.

problemss wrote: »

The landlord say if the house is sold you have 2 months notice to go. So in that 2 months if the .....still in the house so where is my bro gonna go ? Homeless and let the ...... stay in the house. Doesn't sound good.

Easy, its not right but dont get mad, stay cool and play the game, its annoying but be calm with the tenant and tell them you expect the rent or you'll have no choice but to take them to PRTB, and then court to get your money back. If they are playing hard, you need to too.
No point name calling them here, take it easy on them too, or they'll have that against you, carry a handheld camcorder or running phone with camera, do it obviously, not in their face, just hold it in your hand, that way no accusation can be made you have done or said anything and they will be less likely to try it on.

start the process now as you are required.

maria34

Are you sure your brother would get rent allowance when the house is on your name and you are related??? Dont think you can... Find out that too.

athtrasna

Your tenant has been running rings around you, you should have issued the 14 day notice in the first month, not let it go four months. Chances are she'd be gone by now if you had.

problemss

She was paying at first till i gave her notice to say that im selling the house.

problemss

maria34 wrote: »

Are you sure your brother would get rent allowance when the house is on your name and you are related??? Dont think you can... Find out that too.

IM not sure bout this. Are they not allowed?

cerastes

athtrasna wrote: »

Your problem is that your "selling the house" doesn't sound credible now that you've replaced it with "a family member needs it", while both are grounds to end a Part IV tenancy, it's very convenient that you've had two such grounds.

You won't be able to argue based on her non payment of rent if you haven't issued a 14 day notice of arrears.

Its perfectly possible, but does sound odd, however if they can back this up all the better, even if they cant both are still legitimate reasons, I cannot see how it wouldnt be perfectly reasonable to change your mind and offer for rent to a relative.

OP if they were a paying tenant with no problems, you may have stuffed yourself up, if thats the case, try get them onside by telling them if they dont pay arrears now you'll take a case against them and initiate it, they cant fight anything in court or anywhere else if they are refusing to pay the rent.But in that case you might consider allowing them to stay.

problemss wrote: »

IM not sure bout this. Are they not allowed?

You need to look into that, I cant see why not myself, but I can imagine the HSE?social welfare may look at it suspiciously, might be more hassle for you.

What the true order this occured in may help, were you planning to sell?

maria34

""Renting from a parent: You cannot get Rent Supplement to help you pay rent to your parent if you are living in the family home. If your parent owns a second property, you will generally not get Rent Supplement to rent this property from them unless it is a bona fide tenancy and you are assessed as having a housing need. Your parent must also be able to prove that they have a history of renting this property.""

Found this from welfare page, its about parent and a child. Maybe brothers/sisters dont count but to be sure you could find out.

The_Morrigan

problemss if you use derogatory language once more I will ban you..I have repeatedly deleted and edited your posts, I am not following you around fixing your posts.

Everyone back on topic now please.

Hollister11

One of my friends is getting evicted. She is on RA and unemployed so the housing list landlord sold to the council and the council are replacing her with someone else on the waiting list.
Idiots only in Ireland would you do this

cerastes

Hollister11 wrote: »

One of my friends is getting evicted. She is on RA and unemployed so the housing list landlord sold to the council and the council are replacing her with someone else on the waiting list.
Idiots only in Ireland would you do this

who's the idiot? you mean the council? the landlord seems to be selling the house, maybe the person in it now doesnt qualify under the scheme the council are letting it, maybe stupid but there might be a reason, but it does sound like it might not occur somewhere more organised.

fash

Just a note on the "family member" part of the RTA- confirm in the definitions section that it includes "brother" - it may be limited to kids/parents.

The_Conductor

athtrasna wrote: »

FOR THE THIRD TIME!! Have you issued the 14 day notice of payment arrears and after those 14 days elapsed then a 28 day notice of eviction. That's how you LEGALLY start procedures.

Follow Athrasna's advice.
14 days notice of payment of arrears, followed by 28 days notice of eviction.
Do it properly- in writing, preferably either by registered post, or if in person, in the presence of a witness.

DFSA do not stop rent allowance when you give notice- its actually paid in arrears- so this would be counter productive in any event.

What she is saying doesn't add up.

Either selling the house- or for use for a family member- are both valid reasons for giving her notice- however, they are wholly irrelevant- if she hasn't paid rent- you need to give her the 14 days notice of arrears, followed by 28 days notice- when she hasn't paid the rent.

The_Conductor

fash wrote: »

Just a note on the "family member" part of the RTA- confirm in the definitions section that it includes "brother" - it may be limited to kids/parents.

Its irrelevant- she hasn't paid rent- its 14 days notice- and if all arrears aren't cleared in the 14 days- notice of 28 days to vacate the property.

The landlord does not need to give a reason when the tenant hasn't paid the rent.

xper

fash wrote: »

Just a note on the "family member" part of the RTA- confirm in the definitions section that it includes "brother" - it may be limited to kids/parents.

Residential Tenancies Act 2004 section 35, paragraph 4:

(4) In paragraph 4 of the Table the reference to a member of the landlord's family is a reference to any spouse, child, stepchild, foster child, grandchild, parent, grandparent, step parent, parent-in-law, brother, sister, nephew or niece of the landlord or a person adopted by the landlord under the Adoption Acts 1952 to 1998.

But as pointed out, the non-payment of rent for four months is a far more pressing reason to serve notice and changes the manner in which it should be done. The correct action to take has been made clear to the OP.