Nicaean ecumenical council 2025

mezuzaj

The Vatican and Orthodox Patriarch announced an ecumenical council for 2025 in Nicea, Present day Iznik in Turkey. 1700 years after the creed was agreed there. While its not clear if it will be a council in the proper sense, there will be Bishops from around the world in attendance. The Armenian Bishops will also attend.

Interesting development. With a focus on something that units all the churches.

katydid

mezuzaj wrote: »

The Vatican and Orthodox Patriarch announced an ecumenical council for 2025 in Nicea, Present day Iznik in Turkey. 1700 years after the creed was agreed there. While its not clear if it will be a council in the proper sense, there will be Bishops from around the world in attendance. The Armenian Bishops will also attend.

Interesting development. With a focus on something that units all the churches.

Just the Roman and Orthodox churches? Not very ecumenical...

Manach

katydid wrote: »

Just the Roman and Orthodox churches? Not very ecumenical...

Given their short history timespan, perhaps no one noticed that the others?

katydid

Manach wrote: »

Given their short history timespan, perhaps no one noticed that the others?

No one noticed that the others...what?

ryan101

katydid wrote: »

Just the Roman and Orthodox churches? Not very ecumenical...

There is constant ongoing ecumenical relations between the Catholic church and the Anglican Church, but it's probably far too positive a thing for the mainstream media or indeed the usual suspects.

London, May 29 (Prensa Latina) The head of the British Anglican Church and archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, will visit the Vatican on June 14-16, where he will meet with Pope Francis, according to official sources.

Welby will talk with the Supreme Pontiff on the third day of his stay in the Vatican, where he will analyze projects to fight human trafficking worldwide, said a communique issued from Lambeth Palace, the Anglican Church see.

In addition, the British archbishop will visit the See of the new International Anglican-Catholic Commission for unity and the ecclesiastic mission, and will learn about a project for assistance to refugees and other projects related to initiatives against poverty.

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2731451&Itemid=1

The Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission was established by Archbishop of Canterbury Michael Ramsey and Pope Paul VI in 1967. Its terms of reference were established by the Malta Report in the following year and it has worked in two phases - 1970-1981, and 1983-2005.
The first phase of work was completed with the publication of the Final Report in 1981, dealing with three topics: The Eucharist, Ministry and Authority.
The second phase covered a more diverse range of topics including: Salvation and the Church, 1986; The Church as Communion, 1991; Life in Christ: Morals, Communion and the Church, 1993; The Gift of Authority, 1999, and culminating in the publication of Mary: Grace and Hope in Christ in 2005.
A preparatory commission for a third phase of ARCIC met in London in October 2007. ARCIC III met for the first time in Bose, Italy, in 2011, in 2012 in Hong Kong, and in 2013 in Rio de Janeiro.
ARCIC is working on the theme of the Church local and universal, and how the Church comes to discern right ethical teaching.

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/ministry/ecumenical/dialogues/catholic/arcic/index.cfm

katydid

ryan101 wrote: »

There is constant ongoing ecumenical relations between the Catholic church and the Anglican Church, but it's probably far too positive a thing for the mainstream media or indeed the usual suspects.

I presume you mean between the Roman Catholic church and the Anglican church, which is also a Catholic church. Let's at least be accurate...

Yes, I'm aware of the dialogue between these two Catholic churches, and it's very positive. But not really the issue here - it seems that the Protestant churches, be they Catholic or otherwise, are not included in this Nicean council, which is a bit strange - and not very ecumenical...

Manach

Not really, if one wishes to place it an historical setting. During the reformation, based on a reading of Eoin O'Duffy's works/articles,the main emphasis of Protestant movements were two fold - dwelling on personal salvation and being part of a proto-nationalism trend that was sweeping Europe (eg the Established churches). Councils by their nature are international and focus on matters at regional/global level which where Orthodox and Catholic Churches have a traditonal of being institutaional players.
As well, to have describe many Protestant churches as anyway Catholic- being infected by the "Papist superstition"- would be viewed as immiciable to their core self-images for much of the past few centuries.

Benny_Cake

katydid wrote: »

I presume you mean between the Roman Catholic church and the Anglican church, which is also a Catholic church. Let's at least be accurate...

Yes, I'm aware of the dialogue between these two Catholic churches, and it's very positive. But not really the issue here - it seems that the Protestant churches, be they Catholic or otherwise, are not included in this Nicean council, which is a bit strange - and not very ecumenical...

It seems that Catholic World News, who reported this originally, got a little over-enthusiastic when they used the word "council":

Editor's note: An earlier version of this CWN story referred to a "council" at Nicea. The nature of the meeting described by Patriarch Bartholomew is not entirely clear, and could change in the intervening years. But it would be premature, at the least, to say that the plan is for an ecumenical council. We apologize for using a word that could be misleading in this context.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21561

So I'm guessing that this won't be a council, and will be more of an ecumenical meeting to commemorate the Council of Nicea and to discuss matters relating to Roman Catholic - Orthodox relations. Which is commendable, but it's not an ecumenical council and it would be highly surprising if anyone claimed it was.

All being well, it will be a positive contribution to ecumenism.

katydid

Manach wrote: »

Not really, if one wishes to place it an historical setting. During the reformation, based on a reading of Eoin O'Duffy's works/articles,the main emphasis of Protestant movements were two fold - dwelling on personal salvation and being part of a proto-nationalism trend that was sweeping Europe (eg the Established churches). Councils by their nature are international and focus on matters at regional/global level which where Orthodox and Catholic Churches have a traditonal of being institutaional players.
As well, to have describe many Protestant churches as anyway Catholic- being infected by the "Papist superstition"- would be viewed as immiciable to their core self-images for much of the past few centuries.

The Anglican Communion is a world wide communion; the only difference from Roman Catholicism is that there is no central curia, and each country manages its own affairs. And while other Protestant churches may not have such an international dimension, it doesn't negate their validity as Christian churches.

I agree that the Roman and Orthodox Catholic churches would not be inclined to recognise as Catholic other Catholic churches that are not in communion with it. But isn't that what ecumenism is about - drawing together Christian churches and recognising what they have in common rather than what separates them?

katydid

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It seems that Catholic World News, who reported this originally, got a little over-enthusiastic when they used the word "council":



http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21561

So I'm guessing that this won't be a council, and will be more of an ecumenical meeting to commemorate the Council of Nicea and to discuss matters relating to Roman Catholic - Orthodox relations. Which is commendable, but it's not an ecumenical council and it would be highly surprising if anyone claimed it was.

All being well, it will be a positive contribution to ecumenism.

I suppose it's inevitable, given the location, that it would be seen or portrayed as such, but I take your point. And anything that furthers ecumenism is good; just a pity it excludes so many Christians.

Manach

katydid wrote: »

But isn't that what ecumenism is about - drawing together Christian churches and recognising what they have in common rather than what separates them?

Yes - There was an interesting article on the positives of such in a recent edition of the Irish Catholic, but also mention of the many stumbling blocks and obstacles on the way. Given how glacial any hierarchy moves, perhaps 2125 might be a more realistic date .

katydid

Manach wrote: »

Yes - There was an interesting article on the positives of such in a recent edition of the Irish Catholic, but also mention of the many stumbling blocks and obstacles on the way. Given how glacial any hierarchy moves, perhaps 2125 might be a more realistic date .

What's much more heartening is seeing true ecumenism on a smaller scale, where it really counts. I see the exchanges and cooperation at a local level; where I live, there is very open and fruitful cooperation between all the Christian churches, especially the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic church. People attend services in each other's churches, there is a shared gospel choir, and the clergy on both sides meet regularly for lunch or coffee to share ideas and make plans.
That's the ecumenism that will make the difference in the long run

ryan101

katydid wrote: »

I suppose it's inevitable, given the location, that it would be seen or portrayed as such, but I take your point. And anything that furthers ecumenism is good; just a pity it excludes so many Christians.

It's a move for ecumenism between Latin and Eastern rite Catholics, it's not about excluding. You may as well try to negatively claim the The Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission is really a conspiracy theory to exclude the other 33,000 plus Protestant denominations. There are similar ecumenical efforts between the Catholic Church and every other major Church.

katydid

ryan101 wrote: »

It's a move for ecumenism between Latin and Eastern rite Catholics, it's not about excluding. You may as well try to negatively claim the The Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission is really a conspiracy theory to exclude the other 33,000 plus Protestant denominations. There are similar ecumenical efforts between the Catholic Church and every other major Church.

Moves between which Catholic church and every other major church?

.

Benny_Cake

katydid wrote: »

Moves between which Catholic church and every other major church?

.

Let's not get bogged down in semantics. Given the context of the post and the fact that this is an Irish forum, taking offence over the use of the word "Catholic" seems somewhat pointless. It should be obvious which church he is referring to. For the record, I'm not a (Roman) Catholic (and probably wouldn't be considered any other type of Catholic either) but given the culture and country we live in, I use Catholic and Roman Catholic interchangeably, without intending any offence to Orthodox Christians, Anglicans, Lutherans or anyone else.

Mod hat on: Use of the word "Catholic" is best suited to the Protestant / Catholic megathread, so best to take it there.

mezuzaj

katydid wrote: »

Just the Roman and Orthodox churches? Not very ecumenical...

I think they are focused on Apostolic Church's. (Catholic, Orthodox, Armenian, Eastern Orthodox). Many protestant churches are no longer apostolic, in the sense they don't have apostolic succession.

But this is just personal speculation on my part, I don't have the facts of how it will plan out in 2025.

katydid

mezuzaj wrote: »

I think they are focused on Apostolic Church's. (Catholic, Orthodox, Armenian, Eastern Orthodox). Many protestant churches are no longer apostolic, in the sense they don't have apostolic succession.

But this is just personal speculation on my part, I don't have the facts of how it will plan out in 2025.

Well, the Anglican church does, but the RC church doesn't accept that.

Anyway, any move is a good move, I suppose.

mezuzaj

katydid wrote: »

Well, the Anglican church does, but the RC church doesn't accept that.

Anyway, any move is a good move, I suppose.

Yes, its a good move. Its returning the Church to a point when believers were united.

katydid

mezuzaj wrote: »

Yes, its a good move. Its returning the Church to a point when believers were united.

Well, I'd hardly go that far, as it's only part of the Christian church taking part, but it's a start.

mezuzaj

katydid wrote: »

Well, I'd hardly go that far, as it's only part of the Christian church taking part, but it's a start.

I don't know who will be taking part, it was Catholic-Orthodox who prompted it, but I don't know who will be there, I presume it will be ecumenical. its 11 years away and I doubt Pope Francis will be Pope.

ryan101

katydid wrote: »

Well, the Anglican church does

It doesn't

katydid

ryan101 wrote: »

It doesn't

I say it does. You say it doesn't. Neither of us can say for sure that we are right. But since neither of us can say for sure, we will just have to agree to disagree.

ryan101

katydid wrote: »

I say it does. You say it doesn't. Neither of us can say for sure that we are right. But since neither of us can say for sure, we will just have to agree to disagree.

It's not an opinion, it's an established fact.

katydid

ryan101 wrote: »

It's not an opinion, it's an established fact.

Established by whom?