Are humans very inefficient?

Sir Arthur Daley

Just finished work there an hour ago, me and the lads tired after the weeks work. Us humans can build, design and build such elaborate things yet we cannot improve on the efficiency of the human being.
I would estimate we sleep over a 3rd of our lives, life is short enough without sleeping and if i had a choice i would rather not have to sleep. Why do we need to sleep? Why cant some one not invent some thing?

WilyCoyote

Short answer is YES I mean NO.

Turtwig

We're very efficient. When was the last time you had to hunt your own food? Fight an illness unaided? Tailor your own clothes? Source safe drinking water?

krudler

We're rubbish babies, we cant do anything for ourselves for a few years, other animals learn how to walk seconds after they're born and fend for themselves after a few months, sooner in some cases. There's grown men living here who can't do their own washing :pac:

Sir Arthur Daley

Turtwig wrote: »

We're very efficient. When was the last time you had to hunt your own food? Fight an illness unaided? Tailor your own clothes? Source safe drinking water?

Without getting deep now, I trap my own rabbits, I fight off my own cold and flus, I cannot tailor my own clothes but could manage to cover the essentials and would have no problem in locating safe drinking water.

jay-me

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Without getting deep now, I trap my own rabbits, I fight off my own cold and flus, I cannot tailor my own clothes but could manage to cover the essentials and would have no problem in locating safe drinking water.

Aye but when is the last time you HAD to?

Maximus Alexander

Inefficient... compared to what? Are you an AI?

Sir Arthur Daley

jay-me wrote: »

Aye but when is the last time you HAD to?

Every day of the week. I have no issue with drinking water out of any stream or river i see yet others would rather die of thirst.

_Redzer_

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Just finished work there an hour ago, me and the lads tired after the weeks work. Us humans can build, design and build such elaborate things yet we cannot improve on the efficiency of the human being.
I would estimate we sleep over a 3rd of our lives, life is short enough without sleeping and if i had a choice i would rather not have to sleep. Why do we need to sleep? Why cant some one not invent some thing?

Sleep has been shown to be a sort of training simulator where the information you learned and the skills you helped develop during the day get locked in and perfected.

In the example of football, they've shown that it's not the physical practice that's actually the most important thing in making you a better player, your skill develops later in your sleep when your brain reevaluates what it has done and learned, and then hones itself in conjunction with the body to perfect the sport and build skill based on your memories of playing.

That's why it can take so long to become a decent player as you can put a lot of practice in, which helps a lot, but you're still reliant on sleep to help but things together, and you can only do that a few hours a day, whereas you could play football all day, everyday.

It's pretty amazing how your body is shut down to the minimum while asleep and you'd think your brain is at its lest active, when in fact it's largely at its most active in many areas.

Bongalongherb

When the other folks are asleep, the other folks are out progressing and being efficient. Would you rather work 24 hours a day every day for the rest of your life ? or would you like to enjoy a much deserved sleep ?.

We were not created by Duracell.

Missing out on Lucid dreaming and amazing dreams ? no way man. Meditation and dreams are another part of your life don't forget... There's more to sleep than you think.

Narrow minded thinking on such things only keep you in an enclosed box for life.

Sir Arthur Daley

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Sleep has been shown to be a sort of training simulator where the information you learned and the skills you helped develop during the day get locked in and perfected.

In the example of football, they've shown that it's not the physical practice that's actually the most important thing in making you a better player, your skill develops later in your sleep when your brain reevaluates what it has done and learned, and then hones itself in conjunction with the body to perfect the sport and build skill based on your memories of playing.

That's why it can take so long to become a decent player as you can put a lot of practice in, which helps a lot, but you're still reliant on sleep to help but things together, and you can only do that a few hours a day, whereas you could play football all day, everyday.

It's pretty amazing how your body is shut down to the minimum while asleep and you'd think your brain is at its lest active, when in fact it's largely at its most active in many areas.

Thanks for that in-depth post, alot to take in there.

Bongalongherb wrote: »

When the other folks are asleep, the other folks are out progressing and being efficient. Would you rather work 24 hours a day every day for the rest of your life ? or would you like to enjoy a much deserved sleep ?.

We were not created by Duracell.

We are not but we did invent duracell.

kneemos

You can train yourself to survive on small amounts of sleep.
Know several who seem to naturally survive on little or sometimes no sleep quite well.

--LOS--

Ye we've built all these things OP but we're the complete opposite of efficient because of all the waste we created from those things. We haven't really figured out sustainability and that will be detrimental to us. So I would argue that we are less efficient these days.

Arthur Beesley

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Just finished work there an hour ago, me and the lads tired after the weeks work. Us humans can build, design and build such elaborate things yet we cannot improve on the efficiency of the human being.
I would estimate we sleep over a 3rd of our lives, life is short enough without sleeping and if i had a choice i would rather not have to sleep. Why do we need to sleep? Why cant some one not invent some thing?

How is life short?

Arthur Beesley

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Why cant some one not invent some thing?

Because life is too short to do so?

CruelCoin

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Why do we need to sleep? Why cant some one not invent some thing?

You can retrofit with coffee.

I currently sleep for a fifth of my life.

Tarzana

We need a lot less sleep than other animals. More than others. Sleep is a natural and necessary thing. If we didn't sleep, we'd be a lot LESS inefficient. And forgive me if I don't want my life to be a study in efficiency. :P

The One Doctor

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Sleep has been shown to be a sort of training simulator where the information you learned and the skills you helped develop during the day get locked in and perfected.

And it's not just physical skills. All information is processed in sleep. That's why dreams are so strange.

catallus

As usual, OP, all the answers you seek are in the bible!

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

The wretchedness of Man is due to our distance from God!

Tail Docker

catallus wrote: »

As usual, OP, all the answers you seek are in the bible!

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

The wretchedness of Man is due to our distance from God!

... a banging hangover atm.

veryangryman

Tail Docker wrote: »

... a banging hangover atm.

I think that the fact we have automated so few mundane tasks like service industry and pay so much tax shows our inefficiency. Some great ideas out there but not implemented right.

ScumLord

The human body is actually extremely efficient in a number of ways. We have one of the best heat management systems nature has come up with, being bipedal means we save a lot of energy, even the missionary position is more efficient when compared to doggystyle.

The human is an animal that evolved out of the African plains we had to be a very efficient animal to survive that environment.

anto3473

ScumLord wrote: »

The human body is actually extremely efficient in a number of ways. We have one of the best heat management systems nature has come up with, being bipedal means we save a lot of energy, even the missionary position is more efficient when compared to doggystyle.

The human is an animal that evolved out of the African plains we had to be a very efficient animal to survive that environment.

True, in terms of fuel efficiency we produce more useable energy from our food than any internal combustion engine does from fuel. A really efficient diesel engine will use maybe 40% of its energy turning and the rest on heat and noise.

Then again most of what humans do is making heat and noise.

Holsten

We are efficient in our main goal, to survive and reproduce.

Anything other than that.. no not really.

--LOS--

Tarzana wrote: »

We need a lot less sleep than other animals. More than others. Sleep is a natural and necessary thing. If we didn't sleep, we'd be a lot LESS inefficient. And forgive me if I don't want my life to be a study in efficiency. :P

you mean more inefficient or less efficient?


sleep is probably what makes us live longer. If you left a computer on all the time it would get pretty cranky and fail sooner

St890

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Sleep has been shown to be a sort of training simulator where the information you learned and the skills you helped develop during the day get locked in and perfected.

In the example of football, they've shown that it's not the physical practice that's actually the most important thing in making you a better player, your skill develops later in your sleep when your brain reevaluates what it has done and learned, and then hones itself in conjunction with the body to perfect the sport and build skill based on your memories of playing.

That's why it can take so long to become a decent player as you can put a lot of practice in, which helps a lot, but you're still reliant on sleep to help but things together, and you can only do that a few hours a day, whereas you could play football all day, everyday.

It's pretty amazing how your body is shut down to the minimum while asleep and you'd think your brain is at its lest active, when in fact it's largely at its most active in many areas.

Agree with this, ever notice when you try learning a new skill that you get tired quickly. Your brain wants to consolidate the information and build the pathways that allow your skill levels to improve.

kowloon

krudler wrote: »

We're rubbish babies, we cant do anything for ourselves for a few years, other animals learn how to walk seconds after they're born and fend for themselves after a few months, sooner in some cases. There's grown men living here who can't do their own washing :pac:

It's the fcuking duvet covers that crushed my spirit.

ScumLord wrote: »

...even the missionary position is more efficient when compared to doggystyle.

I think this needs more experimental evidence.

ceadaoin.

krudler wrote: »

We're rubbish babies, we cant do anything for ourselves for a few years, other animals learn how to walk seconds after they're born and fend for themselves after a few months, sooner in some cases. There's grown men living here who can't do their own washing :pac:

That's because if we were to be born at an equivalent developmental level to other animals, our heads would be too big to get through the pelvic opening. It's a tight enough squeeze as it is, trust me!

jimgoose

The human being is the most jaw-droppingly efficient, powerful, adaptable and capable machine that exists, and that will exist for a long time. You can take that from someone who knows a little bit about machines.

_Redzer_

kneemos wrote: »

You can train yourself to survive on small amounts of sleep.
Know several who seem to naturally survive on little or sometimes no sleep quite well.

You can't survive on no sleep or very little sleep for long. It's extremely taxing on your mental and psychological state, which in turn affects your physical health.

People who do not get the adequate sleep they need, differs from each individual, succumb to a multitude of diseases and disorders, and generally die younger.

PeteFalk78

kneemos wrote: »

Know several who seem to naturally survive on little or sometimes no sleep quite well.

I call BS on that. Long-term total sleep deprivation will cause death.

19543261

Turtwig wrote: »

We're very efficient. When was the last time you had to hunt your own food? Fight an illness unaided? Tailor your own clothes? Source safe drinking water?

In terms of maximizing limited resources and limiting waste, humanity as whole are inefficient. As individuals, we are too. Especially work, patterns and hours are based largely upon tradition/wages with little regard given to anything else at all.

gugleguy

Our teeth are inefficient. We are effectively eating modern food with yesterday,'s (natural) teeth. Paradoxically if we don,t look after our teeth they go bad and come out. If we do look after our teeth, get the eye teeth removed etc, they will last as lo.g ax the skeleton in the grave. Digressing here a bit.

Hotblack Desiato

gugleguy wrote: »

Our teeth are inefficient. We are effectively eating modern food with yesterday,'s (natural) teeth.

Human teeth are optimised for speech, not eating.

jimgoose wrote: »

The human being is the most jaw-droppingly efficient, powerful, adaptable and capable machine that exists, and that will exist for a long time. You can take that from someone who knows a little bit about machines.

"Man is the best computer we can put in a spacecraft, and the only one that can be mass produced by unskilled labor." - Wernher von Braun

Bongalongherb

Four years ago I done an experiment on deprivation of sleep. I spent 4 days and nights awake constantly while drinking beer and playing computer games and also painting. On day 3 I experienced vivid auditory hallucinations, i could hear voices, many many voices clearly in my head but overlapping.

Then at night three I could see visual hallucinations all around me and voices. I kept myself awake with more beer for the fourth day, and that was it for me, I had to give in because I was out there, as in dreams were affecting my waking conciousness. A hell of an experience it was completely losing touch with conciousness and dreams intermingled all at once.

Strange experiment, so I sat in a chair on my own at 5am mid winter cold in the dark hallucinating like crazy with those mixed voices trying to make sense of them, but woke up the next day on the ground.

The experiment was a failure. All I got out of it was nonsensical ramblings from many odd voices and coloured visual hallucinations of chaos, except for one visual hallucination. This one below, but it was the exact same as the pic below but very bright blue in colour sparkling with electricity. It took a long time to track down this image below and I would love to know what it means.

--LOS--

I do sleep deprivation experiments all the time, just involuntarily >.<

Capt'n Midnight

Even without all our technology we are one of the ultimate predators.

A fit human can run a marathon. In the heat of the African sun. That's the time when we can outdistance almost any possible prey or predator. And if we can't we can still swim rivers and climb trees , beat them with sticks and throw rocks at them. Who needs claws and teeth when we've had fire and tools for a million years ?

We can also carry food back to others and are also pretty omnivorous.

And because we can communicate we can tell our grandchildren that our grandmother told us about a lake on the far side of that mountain that never dried up even during the worst drought.

The other thing that makes efficient is that we assemble in large groups, 150 seems to be an common enough size.


And a human on a bicycle is more efficient than any land animal. Covers greater distances at higher speed and using less energy.

RobertHeinlein wrote:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Cienciano

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Sleep has been shown to be a sort of training simulator where the information you learned and the skills you helped develop during the day get locked in and perfected.

In the example of football, they've shown that it's not the physical practice that's actually the most important thing in making you a better player, your skill develops later in your sleep when your brain reevaluates what it has done and learned, and then hones itself in conjunction with the body to perfect the sport and build skill based on your memories of playing.

That's why it can take so long to become a decent player as you can put a lot of practice in, which helps a lot, but you're still reliant on sleep to help but things together, and you can only do that a few hours a day, whereas you could play football all day, everyday.

It's pretty amazing how your body is shut down to the minimum while asleep and you'd think your brain is at its lest active, when in fact it's largely at its most active in many areas.

I must be really skillful at getting into school for a test with no trousers then

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23932577

Sleep 'boosts brain cell numbers'

Scientists believe they have discovered a new reason why we need to sleep - it replenishes a type of brain cell.

Sleep ramps up the production of cells that go on to make an insulating material known as myelin which protects our brain's circuitry.

...
Sleep appears necessary for our nervous systems to work properly, says the US National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS).

Deep sleep coincides with the release of growth hormone in children and young adults. Many of the body's cells also show increased production and reduced breakdown of proteins during deep sleep.

Since proteins are the building blocks needed for cell growth and for repair of damage from factors like stress and ultraviolet rays, deep sleep may truly be "beauty sleep", says NINDS.

--LOS--

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Even without all our technology we are one of the ultimate predators.

A fit human can run a marathon. In the heat of the African sun. That's the time when we can outdistance almost any possible prey or predator. And if we can't we can still swim rivers and climb trees , beat them with sticks and throw rocks at them. Who needs claws and teeth when we've had fire and tools for a million years ?

We can also carry food back to others and are also pretty omnivorous.

And because we can communicate we can tell our grandchildren that our grandmother told us about a lake on the far side of that mountain that never dried up even during the worst drought.

The other thing that makes efficient is that we assemble in large groups, 150 seems to be an common enough size.


And a human on a bicycle is more efficient than any land animal. Covers greater distances at higher speed and using less energy.

There's a great film you can watch called 'the superior human', it's on youtube....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqT82oGeax0

I think some animals might disagree with your claims about us being the ultimate predators. And other animals just have different means of communication than ours, some a lot more sophisticated than us. They have amazing intuition that we don't have, see Oscar the cat in that film and some are near telepathic.

Tarzana

--LOS-- wrote: »

you mean more inefficient or less efficient?


sleep is probably what makes us live longer. If you left a computer on all the time it would get pretty cranky and fail sooner

Oh sorry, mistype, I meant to say a lot less efficient!

Fighting Irish

Turtwig wrote: »

We're very efficient. When was the last time you had to hunt your own food? Fight an illness unaided? Tailor your own clothes? Source safe drinking water?

Humans are doomed

gctest50

Bongalongherb wrote: »

............. All I got out of it was nonsensical ramblings from many odd voices and coloured visual hallucinations of chaos, except for one visual hallucination. This one below, but it was the exact same as the pic below but very bright blue in colour sparkling with electricity. It took a long time to track down this image below and I would love to know what it means.

It's a benchmark probably

ScumLord

19543261 wrote: »

In terms of maximizing limited resources and limiting waste, humanity as whole are inefficient. As individuals, we are too.

In relation to what? The human body is as efficient as it needs to be like any other animal but our societies are always coming up with ways of being efficient. Which is the major difference, we seek out efficiencies where as everything else in nature falls into their efficiency.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Even without all our technology we are one of the ultimate predators.

I think the human is one of natures great triumphs. The body shape can deal with just about anything, I really wouldn't like to be any other animal, you'd have to give up so much.

And a human on a bicycle is more efficient than any land animal. Covers greater distances at higher speed and using less energy.

As long as you discount all the work that went into making the road that the bike needs. :pac:

_Redzer_

ScumLord wrote: »

In relation to what? The human body is as efficient as it needs to be like any other animal but our societies are always coming up with ways of being efficient. Which is the major difference, we seek out efficiencies where as everything else in nature falls into their efficiency.


I think the human is one of natures great triumphs. The body shape can deal with just about anything, I really wouldn't like to be any other animal, you'd have to give up so much.



As long as you discount all the work that went into making the road that the bike needs. :pac:

Many animals do things a lot more efficiently than us and are capable of doing great things we can't, but very very few animals, if any at all, can do so many things as well as us. We are great all-rounders, not perfect in many areas, but very efficient and perfect for the environment we evolved in.

snubbleste

Who put the effluent outlet next to the recreation area?

Capt'n Midnight

snubbleste wrote: »

Who put the effluent outlet next to the recreation area?

only an engineer would run a toxic waste pipe through a recreational engineer