Staff being vastly underpaid

mrblah

This is my first job and the whole place is crumbling already and it's only been open a few months. I could bore you with the details of poor organization, communication etc but it is irrelevant at present.

In work, we all get paid on Thursdays only. Today I woke up, excitedly logged on to check my bank balance, and discovered I'd been underpaid by €40. Last week, I was also underpaid by about €50. Last week, I immediately informed the manager and was told he would sort it out for next week - when he clearly didn't even bother looking into it.

Now I'm owed about €90ish from then. I'm left completely screwed over. I went in today to say to them I'd been underpaid yet again. Seemingly, nearly all staff have been underpaid by vast amounts. I'm actually in the minority. Some (the full time staff) have been underpaid as much as €200.

We don't think it is a mistake. It can't be. A mistake as huge - cannot be made. We think the company has no money or something so they just shoved whatever money they can into random people's accounts!!

But can't they get sewed for this?!

I'm not going to start whinging because there are people who have children, single parents etc obviously they need the money more than me. But we're all left stuck. I was told today that they can only put through any transactions on Thursdays. Which I find to be bull****.

Now myself and all other staff are left begging and borrowing to make it to next week. I'm not working another shift there. I'm not there for the good of my health! What do I do?

I feel I didn't make a strong enough case today. I would love if we all went on strike until we got our money but maybe I'm being dramatic.

Is this something you can report to someone? If so, who?!

Finally, can they legally get away with not paying any of us until next week? Like, really? As I said it's my first job - I'm not sure of the technicalities. But I don't think they should be allowed pay us all at whatever pace they fancy like...

Any help / advice would be great

Thanks

davo10

OP, did you get a payslip and do you understand the deductions being made?

As this is your first job, are you paying emergency tax at the moment? This is often the case until revenue finalise your deductions.

Are your hours correct on your payslip?

Is your hourly rate correct?, if both your hours and hourly rate are correct, then your gross pay will be correct and the shortfall may be due to the deductions being made.

Company payrolls are run on a weekly basis, the same day each week. Corrections are paid the following week when wages are updated.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Company payrolls are run on a weekly basis, the same day each week. Corrections are paid the following week when wages are updated.

Company payrolls can be run on any day they choose.

Cheques to make up missing money in the short term can be written on any day.



OP, you're right, it sounds like they're broke. Look for another job ASAP, and tell your colleagues to do the same. People who have been there for more than a year should also check with Welfare if their PRSI contributions have actually been paid.

You can complain to NERA, but realistically they cannot extract money from a company that doesn't have any. The company directors may be breaking the law by continuing to trade etc .. but so what, that won't get you any more cash.

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Company payrolls can be run on any day they choose.

Cheques to make up missing money in the short term can be written on any day.

.

Yes mrs o'bumble, of course they can. But just to let you know, most companies use payroll software and electronic transfers to pay their employees, progress ya see. Now, working on a weekly basis to calculate deductions/net payment, if there is a discrepancy, employers correct it and apply it to the next pay roll, simples.

Cheques usually require lodgement to the payees account and 3-5 days to clear, if the OP works 9-5 then getting to a bank can be difficult or at least inconvenient. Even more simples to correct the following week on electronic payment.

You forgot to mention OP could be paid in cash, would that make more sense to you?

Or, perhaps OP could take a look at his payslip and see if gross is correct, then look at deductions make, then ask revenue/employer about them, is that a good idea mrs o'bumble before OP follows your advice and joins the dole que?

mrblah

davo10 wrote: »

OP, did you get a payslip and do you understand the deductions being made?

As this is your first job, are you paying emergency tax at the moment? This is often the case until revenue finalise your deductions.

Are your hours correct on your payslip?

Is your hourly rate correct?, if both your hours and hourly rate are correct, then your gross pay will be correct and the shortfall may be due to the deductions being made.

Company payrolls are run on a weekly basis, the same day each week. Corrections are paid the following week when wages are updated.

Hi Davo. Thanks for writing back to me. I sorted out my emergency tax months ago. I am a college student and work a maximum of 16 hours per week. Because of this, I am exempt from paying any tax at all. At the start, it wasn't uncommon to be underpaid €40 in a week. But this hasn't happened in about five months now. I'm unsure if the system could've glitched and accidentally put some of us back to emergency tax? But I doubt it
I have not seen this weeks payslip, but I will try to get a hold of it. But I don't think this is an error because the manager showed me a list of everyone's calculated "units" ie hours ie how much wages owed, and beside about half of employees it just says "7.5" ie they're paid for 7.5 hours regardless of what they actually worked. It can't be an error

mrblah

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Company payrolls can be run on any day they choose.

Cheques to make up missing money in the short term can be written on any day.



OP, you're right, it sounds like they're broke. Look for another job ASAP, and tell your colleagues to do the same. People who have been there for more than a year should also check with Welfare if their PRSI contributions have actually been paid.

You can complain to NERA, but realistically they cannot extract money from a company that doesn't have any. The company directors may be breaking the law by continuing to trade etc .. but so what, that won't get you any more cash.

Hey Bumble. Yeah I personally find it hard to believe that they are only able to send out money on Thursdays. However, my company is owned by another big company in Ireland, if that makes sense - so maybe in my branch they don't actually do the transactions themselves and head office does? I really don't have a clue. Thanks for the information. I checked online today and I still haven't been paid anything.
I'm leaving this job. I gave in my two weeks notice a while ago. But at present I'm uninterested in fulfilling the notice. They really don't even deserve it and I'm not obliged to when things like this happen.

mrblah

davo10 wrote: »

Yes mrs o'bumble, of course they can. But just to let you know, most companies use payroll software and electronic transfers to pay their employees, progress ya see. Now, working on a weekly basis to calculate deductions/net payment, if there is a discrepancy, employers correct it and apply it to the next pay roll, simples.

Cheques usually require lodgement to the payees account and 3-5 days to clear, if the OP works 9-5 then getting to a bank can be difficult or at least inconvenient. Even more simples to correct the following week on electronic payment.

You forgot to mention OP could be paid in cash, would that make more sense to you?

Or, perhaps OP could take a look at his payslip and see if gross is correct, then look at deductions make, then ask revenue/employer about them, is that a good idea mrs o'bumble before OP follows your advice and joins the dole que?

Why are you getting mad at poor Bumble!

davo10

OP, if it says 7.5 regardless of hours worked on most slips it does sound like a glitch or person imputing hours did not update the hours section, just ask for your additional hours to be added next week, or you could follow mrs o'bumbles advice and take the moral high ground, quit and sign on.

davo10

mrblah wrote: »

Why are you getting mad at poor Bumble!

Advising someone to quit over a simple mistake in data input which was on most payslips is shoddy advice any day of the week

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Advising someone to quit over a simple mistake in data input which was on most payslips is shoddy advice any day of the week

Please show me where I advised the OP to quit.



PS the name's Mrs O'Bumble.

Kristopherus

davo10 wrote: »

OP, if it says 7.5 regardless of hours worked on most slips it does sound like a glitch or person imputing hours did not update the hours section, just ask for your additional hours to be added next week, or you could follow mrs o'bumbles advice and take the moral high ground, quit and sign on.

Op cannot sign on. S/he' a student.

wexie

davo10 wrote: »

Advising someone to quit over a simple mistake in data input which was on most payslips is shoddy advice any day of the week

However advising someone to look for another job (while they have one) rather than stay with a company that at best is somewhat sloppy with their accounts and at worst can't afford to pay the staff, would seem to be perfectly sound advice....

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, you're right, it sounds like they're broke. Look for another job ASAP, and tell your colleagues to do the same.

Yer Aul One

What type of business is the company in OP?

I have seen this before with cash businesses. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion the company is broke, it is just a lot harder to get credit from banks these days.

There doesn't have to be a revolt but I would recommend the staff nominating someone to speak to the employer to get to the bottom of it! If this doesn't work, then you can consider harder tactics.

Mr Steak

mrblah wrote: »

This is my first job and the whole place is crumbling already and it's only been open a few months. I could bore you with the details of poor organization, communication etc but it is irrelevant at present.

In work, we all get paid on Thursdays only. Today I woke up, excitedly logged on to check my bank balance, and discovered I'd been underpaid by €40. Last week, I was also underpaid by about €50. Last week, I immediately informed the manager and was told he would sort it out for next week - when he clearly didn't even bother looking into it.

Now I'm owed about €90ish from then. I'm left completely screwed over. I went in today to say to them I'd been underpaid yet again. Seemingly, nearly all staff have been underpaid by vast amounts. I'm actually in the minority. Some (the full time staff) have been underpaid as much as €200.

We don't think it is a mistake. It can't be. A mistake as huge - cannot be made. We think the company has no money or something so they just shoved whatever money they can into random people's accounts!!

But can't they get sewed for this?!

I'm not going to start whinging because there are people who have children, single parents etc obviously they need the money more than me. But we're all left stuck. I was told today that they can only put through any transactions on Thursdays. Which I find to be bull****.

Now myself and all other staff are left begging and borrowing to make it to next week. I'm not working another shift there. I'm not there for the good of my health! What do I do?

I feel I didn't make a strong enough case today. I would love if we all went on strike until we got our money but maybe I'm being dramatic.

Is this something you can report to someone? If so, who?!

Finally, can they legally get away with not paying any of us until next week? Like, really? As I said it's my first job - I'm not sure of the technicalities. But I don't think they should be allowed pay us all at whatever pace they fancy like...

Any help / advice would be great

Thanks

Sounds like theft. Get the Gardai involved asap

mrblah

davo10 wrote: »

OP, if it says 7.5 regardless of hours worked on most slips it does sound like a glitch or person imputing hours did not update the hours section, just ask for your additional hours to be added next week, or you could follow mrs o'bumbles advice and take the moral high ground, quit and sign on.

What's wrong with the person who did this? Seriously I don't understand how such a big error could be made.
Mrs O' Bumble never advised me to sign on. Also, I can't, as I am a student.

mrblah

Yer Aul One wrote: »

What type of business is the company in OP?

I have seen this before with cash businesses. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion the company is broke, it is just a lot harder to get credit from banks these days.

There doesn't have to be a revolt but I would recommend the staff nominating someone to speak to the employer to get to the bottom of it! If this doesn't work, then you can consider harder tactics.

I don't want to say the business exactly but it is quite a popular well known restaurant. Which makes it so unusual this is happening because the company is reputable.

Most of us went in and gave out but they don't seem to care.

It doesn't help that management are totally incompetent.

mrblah

Mr Steak wrote: »

Sounds like theft. Get the Gardai involved asap

I would love to but I think it would get me nowhere.

davo10

mrblah wrote: »

What's wrong with the person who did this? Seriously I don't understand how such a big error could be made.
Mrs O' Bumble never advised me to sign on. Also, I can't, as I am a student.

Though it has big consequences, it may be a small error, the pay roll was run without operative updating the hours box on the payroll software. This happens quite a lot in businesses and as stated can be corrected easily in the next run by updating and adding the extra hours to that week.

Leaving ASAP without first finding out what the issue is, is bad advice, she is suggesting the employer is either doing this maliciously or because of incompetence, neither of which may be true. Mistakes happen.

Yer Aul One

mrblah wrote: »

I don't want to say the business exactly but it is quite a popular well known restaurant. Which makes it so unusual this is happening because the company is reputable.

Most of us went in and gave out but they don't seem to care.

It doesn't help that management are totally incompetent.

Has anyone asked for a cash advance, for the money owed?

Sounds like it is just poor administration on the employer's end. That coupled with the fact that there has been no apology etc... *Blood Boils*

wexie

davo10 wrote: »

Though it has big consequences, it may be a small error, the pay roll was run without operative updating the hours box on the payroll software. This happens quite a lot in businesses and as stated can be corrected easily in the next run by updating and adding the extra hours to that week..

Absolutely agree with you, however the fact that this wasn't corrected in the next payroll run would suggest some form of carelessness wouldn't you agree?

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Leaving ASAP without first finding out what the issue is, is bad advice, she is suggesting the employer is either doing this maliciously or because of incompetence, neither of which may be true. Mistakes happen.

A mistake is when it happens once.

A trend is when it happens twice.

When it happens twice or more (remember, it's only been open for a few months, and the OP said that it happened once at first but was cleared up) and to multiple people the second time, that's wayyyy more than just "a mistake".

OP, I'd guess that you're in a franchised branch: your local owner-operator has to pay your wages from their own cash-flow, so it being a big reputable brand may not mean much. But if they do close totally, it may also be a way to get your money, by threatening publicity for the brand. Not worth it for E90, but your full-time colleagues who are 200+ short might see differently.


NB it was also extremely unprofessional of your manager to show you any part of the wage records of other staff, even just the input sheet.

lau1247

mrblah wrote: »

I have not seen this weeks payslip, but I will try to get a hold of it. But I don't think this is an error because the manager showed me a list of everyone's calculated "units" ie hours ie how much wages owed

Not trying to derail, isn't it a big concern also that the manager is showing staff what they pay other staff?? I always thought that is suppose to be private to individuals..

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A mistake is when it happens once.

A trend is when it happens twice.

Ah, I see, so if you yourself make the same mistake twice at work, is it then "a trend" deserving of your employers to try and get rid of you ASAP, or does that only work the one way?

MajorMax

Did Mrs O'Bumble do something to you?

You seem to react to anything she says Like Ian Paisley meeting the Pope in the European Parliament in 1988

Chillax dude, you'll live longer

davo10

MajorMax wrote: »

Did Mrs O'Bumble do something to you?

You seem to react to anything she says Like Ian Paisley meeting the Pope in the European Parliament in 1988

Chillax dude, you'll live longer

Nothing at all, don't know her, but her advice is questionable. In cases like this, you always find out why the error occurred before "pulling the trigger", leaving ASAP, getting NERA involved etc. Act in haste, repent at your leisure. I also think the "trend" when a mistake(s) is made is a bit OTT, it assumes that any one of us one makes more than one mistake deserves to leave/ be forced to leave which is nonsense.

Before going "off on one", take time to consider the options, discuss it with the manager/owner, show examples of the error and allow them time to respond.

gandalf

I agree with some of the others here. Typically if you hear about companies not paying staff properly or making the same "mistakes" a number of times it is a major red flag that they are having serious cash flow problems.

If you are relying on this job I would suggest you take the prudent approach and start to look around.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Ah, I see, so if you yourself make the same mistake twice at work, is it then "a trend" deserving of your employers to try and get rid of you ASAP, or does that only work the one way?

No, I wouldn't expect them to try to get rid of me immediately.

But I would expect to be put on some sort of performance improvement plan (or whatever the company calls 'em), and to demonstrate that it won't happen again.

Especially if the results of my "mistake" affected people's pay in a material way. Absolutely no excuse for making the same mistake twice there.

davo10

If payment is received on Thursday, then unless OP is with the same bank as employer, payment leaves employers bank on Wednesday. For payroll to leave on Wednesday, it must be submitted to the bank the previous working day (Tuesday), payroll operator must process payments pay on Tuesday. So assuming OP brought it to the attention of manager last Friday, the payroll operator had one day to get info from manager, check it and process it. If it's a chain restaurant then it's unlikely payroll is calculated on site so it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that this was not all done in one day.

mrblah

wages just in this week. still didnt get money im owed and doubt i ever will

Yer Aul One

mrblah wrote: »

wages just in this week. still didnt get money im owed and doubt i ever will

Did you get paid in full for this week?

wmpdd3

Put it in writing to your boss how many hours you worked, how many you were paid for and what you did get paid, if you want, post it to them.

It may not get your money back but it will remind them that they owe you money.

What does it say for your total pay since you started? Is that right?

Have you been there long enough for holidays? You should get 8% of your total hours worked in holiday money as long as you haven't taken any holidays since the start of the new holiday year.

I remember having a similar issue with a restaurant 13 years ago. After 10 weeks of waiting for the correct wages I stood on the stairs in the restaurant and told customers that I hadn't been paid. I wouldn't recommend it, but it worked. I had already left to do my exams, but as far as I know I am still barred!

mrblah

Thank you
Yes I will consider writing a letter
Payday is Thurs so will see if I get anything this week
If not will have to take matters further
I'm glad you stood up for yourself
Not sure I can..