When religious, ethnic and national identities collide.

Sulla Felix

Looking for thoughts on this issue, as much as to tease out my own position since it's really not something I've given a lot of thought to. At least partly inspired by the stramash in the funny thread.

The whole jewish/semite/Israeli identity is never very far from surfacing, at least on the internet, and of course Ireland has a history of conflating national identities with religious ones with well known consequences.

Of course it's not as simple as saying you're jewish just because your mother was one, or you're not catholic just because you're Irish but they are shorthands people use to label themselves and others.

I've a friend who's of jewish-semitic stock, identifies as an Irishman and an atheist, supports the state of Israel monetarily but doesn't call himself a jew. Plenty of people would, plenty of others in the same position would self-identify as a jew too.

It can't be enough to just say let people call themselves whatever they want, because as atheists in Ireland have found, you often have to force others to acknowledge that you are Irish and glory be, at the same time, not catholic.

Not really advocating one argument or another, like I said, trying to tease out my own position. Anyone have any particular way of thinking about this kind of thing they'd like to share?

robindch

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Anyone have any particular way of thinking about this kind of thing they'd like to share?

In conversation, particularly with people for whom self-identity and name-calling + pigeon-holing is a big thing, I tend to try to avoid labelling myself at all.

So, I'll tend to say that "I'm from Ireland" instead of "I'm Irish". And "I don't believe in any gods" instead of "I'm an atheist". In some countries, I just say that I'm from Europe - history having shown that some people can't deal with anything more specific than that. Generally, I avoid the predicative adjectival form

In terms of political views, I don't fit all that well into any specific category, so it's easy enough to avoid the usual pigeon-holes of left, liberal, centrist, conservative, right-winger, libertarian etc.

Penn

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" - Batman

Eeden

Sulla Felix wrote: »

...At least partly inspired by the stramash in the funny thread.

Sorry to be off-topic, but what a cool word! I had to look it up.

Hotblack Desiato

Penn wrote: »

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" - Batman

Thought Batman was a top?

Absolam

ninja900 wrote: »

Thought Batman was a top?

Nah, total WASP. One may allude to that sort of thing, but only in a 'school was the happiest time of my life' kind of way.

Hotblack Desiato

There's a difference between

It's not who I am, underneath, but...

and

It's not who I am underneath, but...


Oh well, please yourselves

pauldla

Penn wrote: »

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" - Batman

PopePalpatine

Is it wrong that I imagined Scottish Batman with Frankie Boyle's voice?