Irish embassy in South Africa / rights of EU Citizens

africansun

Hi all,

as I am in a desperate situation and I don't have any clue who to approach I hope you guys can give me an advice.

My husband is Congolese and I am German. We got married in South Africa 1.5 years ago also living here.

I got a job in Ireland and so we planed to relocate end of June.

As I will exercising my Free Movement Rights as a EU Citizens my husband applied for a short-term C visa under the Directive 2004/38/EC.

The application was handed in at the Irish consulate in Cape Town on the 20th of May 2014 to get forwarded to the Irish embassy in Pretoria.

On inis.gov.ie I found "Guidelines for Visa Officers" for "Processing of Applications for Visas by Persons applying as Family Members of EU Citizens exercising or planning to exercise Free Movement Rights under
Directive 2004/38/EC" where it is clearly stated that the visa has to be processed within 4 weeks.

As I called the embassy in Pretoria on the 26th of May 2014 to ask if they received the application from the consulate in Cape Town they didn't have any idea what I meant as I told them that we were applying under the Directive 2004/38/EC.

I also send them an e-mail informing them about the circumstances, the directive and the fact that those applications need to be processed accelerated.

They confirmed via phone that they received the mail - but the lady didn't "have time to read it". She assured me that she is the only one processing visas for the Irish embassy in South Africa and that an application takes up to 8 weeks.

My problem: I need to leave South Africa end of June to start my new job. Without me my husband will also need to leave South Africa - means he would need to go back to Congo - an area which is currently a war zone. As you can image I am VERY concerned.

I want to complain about the embassy and their bad knowledge of EU regulations - hoping they could still issue a visa in time.

I heard about SOLVEIT - but I saw on their website that they can take up to 10 weeks to solve a case - and that would definitively be to late.

Any ideas what I could do?

Thanks so much!

diegroblers

I can't help you with information about who to complain to, but I do know that the directive mentions that they consider spouses as family but require proof of "a durable relationship" (to guard against #28). As far as I know (I'm speaking from memory and slightly different circumstances; my partner is Irish and I'm South African) you need to be able to prove a relationship of 2 years or longer. This might have an impact on your application, I'm not sure (they don't always stick 100% to the requirements).

africansun

Hey diegroblers,

thanks a lot for your reply.

I haven't heard anything at all about that requirement - which gave me a little bit of a shock now

But I figure that you guys didn't apply under the Directive 2004/38/EC - because your husband is obviously not exercising his Free Movement Rights as he is living as an Irish citizen in Ireland. Your application was probably made under Irish law.

These are the guidelines for visa officers if applying under the Directive 2004/38/EC only states these requirements:

(i) that there is an EU citizen from whom they can derive rights under the Directive (that would be me!)
(ii) the existence of the required family relationship to that EU citizen (marriage certificate)
(iii) that they will be accompanying or joining an EU citizen who is exercising free movement rights in Ireland (my work contract)

Gosh - this hole immigration process is so complicated - I will feel so relieved when it's all over...

I just send an mail to the Irish ambassador in South Africa... I hope he will actually read it and take appropriate action.

If anybody has other suggestions... I am willing to try (almost) everything!

(and btw diegroblers, the weather in SA is horrible at the moment - you are not missing anthing )

diegroblers

Lol! Yeah, I heard about the weather!

I understand the distinction between the two, but, referring back to clause 28 of the Directive, it states: "(28) To guard against abuse of rights or fraud, notably marriages of convenience or any other form of relationships contracted for the sole purpose of enjoying the right of free movement and residence, Member States should have the possibility to adopt the necessary measures."

Which might mean a minimum duration for a relationship.

Pro Hoc Vice

diegroblers wrote: »

Lol! Yeah, I heard about the weather!

I understand the distinction between the two, but, referring back to clause 28 of the Directive, it states: "(28) To guard against abuse of rights or fraud, notably marriages of convenience or any other form of relationships contracted for the sole purpose of enjoying the right of free movement and residence, Member States should have the possibility to adopt the necessary measures."

Which might mean a minimum duration for a relationship.

There is no minimum for marriage there is for defacto relationships of two years.

diegroblers

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

There is no minimum for marriage there is for defacto relationships of two years.

Ah, yes, you are right.

Apologies for the scare, africansun!

Pro Hoc Vice

africansun wrote: »

Hi all,

as I am in a desperate situation and I don't have any clue who to approach I hope you guys can give me an advice.

My husband is Congolese and I am German. We got married in South Africa 1.5 years ago also living here.

I got a job in Ireland and so we planed to relocate end of June.

As I will exercising my Free Movement Rights as a EU Citizens my husband applied for a short-term C visa under the Directive 2004/38/EC.

The application was handed in at the Irish consulate in Cape Town on the 20th of May 2014 to get forwarded to the Irish embassy in Pretoria.

On inis.gov.ie I found "Guidelines for Visa Officers" for "Processing of Applications for Visas by Persons applying as Family Members of EU Citizens exercising or planning to exercise Free Movement Rights under
Directive 2004/38/EC" where it is clearly stated that the visa has to be processed within 4 weeks.

As I called the embassy in Pretoria on the 26th of May 2014 to ask if they received the application from the consulate in Cape Town they didn't have any idea what I meant as I told them that we were applying under the Directive 2004/38/EC.

I also send them an e-mail informing them about the circumstances, the directive and the fact that those applications need to be processed accelerated.

They confirmed via phone that they received the mail - but the lady didn't "have time to read it". She assured me that she is the only one processing visas for the Irish embassy in South Africa and that an application takes up to 8 weeks.

My problem: I need to leave South Africa end of June to start my new job. Without me my husband will also need to leave South Africa - means he would need to go back to Congo - an area which is currently a war zone. As you can image I am VERY concerned.

I want to complain about the embassy and their bad knowledge of EU regulations - hoping they could still issue a visa in time.

I heard about SOLVEIT - but I saw on their website that they can take up to 10 weeks to solve a case - and that would definitively be to late.

Any ideas what I could do?

Thanks so much!

There is no breach of the regs as of yet, they have according to you 4 weeks from 20th may.

Also I think you may have applied for the wrong vsa, I would have thought your husband should apply for long stay join spouse EEA national. Confirm with INIS that the correct visa has been applied for.

africansun

Thank you all!


Pro Hoc Vice, you were a 100% right - there was no breach of the regs as I started the thread. But as I mad a million BAD experiences with the authorities in different African countries and I got a big scare as the lady didn't know what I was talking about - and I expected the worst.

Anyhow... I wrote to the Ambassador and suddenly everything went smooth. I am currently in touch with the embassy on a regular basis and they confirmed that they will finalise the application next week. IN TIME!

Pro Hoc Vice, the long stay join spouse EEA national visa applies under national law in contrast to the EU directive which is the same for every European country and applies under EU regulations.

In general the directive visa is much easier to get. You only need to show your marriage certificate, both passports and proof that the EU national will make use of the free movement rights - that's it. The not EEA national will get a visit visa c for three month and can apply for a permanent visa once he arrived in Ireland.

When I have a quick look at the "join spouse" permit and see that they require documents like...

* letter from spouse's employer in Ireland stating current salary, including all benefits in kind, duration of employment and whether employer intends to renew the work permit
* Evidence that the spouse in Ireland has sufficient funds to cover the costs of the stay, this should include:
* bank statement from spouse in Ireland
* copy of most recent P60 (Certificate of Pay, Tax and Pay-Related Social Insurance)
* recent pay slips

... I am happy that we went with the directive visa
(Additionally we could have not provided these documents as I am not living in Ireland yet and we plan to move together - which is possible with directive visa)

I hope we will get his visa next week and I can share some of my experiences with other travellers who are thinking of a relocation!

I wish you all a good evening!