The Red Woman's "magic"... BOOK READERS ONLY - SPOILERS ABOUND

Savage Tyrant

What is the extent of the red woman's power?
She undoubtably played a major role in Renly being killed. So there is evidence of significant ability.
Together with Stannis she prayed/cast a spell with the leeches for the downfall of other Kings.
King in the North Robb Stark - Now dead
King Joffrey - Now dead
King of the Iron Islands Balon Greyjoy - Now dead
So did the spell have any effect in setting those paths in motion or just coincidence?

But there is evidence of her fallibility too. Not least that she declared King Stannis as Azor Ahai reborn which is clearly not the case. So she is either wrong on that count or she is playing Stannis

Anyway, what are you opinions?

Witcher

She does have power..the leeches don't work I don't think but I wouldn't want her throwing a leech into the fire with my name on it:pac:

In ADwD she talks to Jon while Ghost is with him, when she touches Ghost, Jon calls him and he turns and looks at Jon as if he was a stranger. I can't remember what she was saying to Jon in the lead up to that but I took it as her implying that she could take Ghost from Jon.

Turtyturd

The spell had an effect, and it's not like that is the only example of her power. And it's not like she is the only one from that religion who has exhibited powers, Thoros, the guy with Euron (I think?) there were also other examples when Jorah captured Tyrion. They seem to be the only religion that have any kind of power/response from the gods.

celica00

Blay wrote: »

She does have power..I wouldn't want her throwing a leech into the fire with my name on it:pac:

In ADwD she talks to Jon while Ghost is with him, when she touches Ghost, Jon calls him and he turns and looks at Jon as if he was a stranger. I can't remember what she was saying to Jon in the lead up to that but I took it as her implying that she could take Ghost from Jon.

I didn't get the feeling that she wanted to take him away (if she could), more to simply show him the power she has by the gods etc.

stevenmu

She has admitted herself that a lot of the magic she uses is just trickery, but only recently some of it has been real. This seems to be connected to both the comet and the dragons being reborn.

Incidentally I don't think they've mentioned the comet on the TV show yet? It was only in the last episode or two that I noticed it in the start credits, but it may have been there longer.

I suspect the leeches were just trickery and nothing more, meant to help with Stannis' morale. Renly was killed by the shadow-baby, so she directly had a hand in that. IIRC there were rumours that a shadow was seen by Euron before he fell, so she probably had a direct hand in that too with another shadow-baby. And then Joffrey was just a nice coincidence, although she probably would have shadow-babied him sooner or later too if she got the chance.

So I think it's still a mix of real magic and trickery.

Duckworth_Luas

stevenmu wrote: »

Incidentally I don't think they've mentioned the comet on the TV show yet? It was only in the last episode or two that I noticed it in the start credits, but it may have been there longer.

The comet was seen in season 2 by both Dany and Bran.

Sleepy

Renly's assassination and some of her smaller displays of power (e.g. bewitching Ghost) were real, the rest were happy coincidences I think. Balon was most likely killed by Euron (or someone acting on his behalf), Robb was killed by the Boltons/Freys/Lannisters and Joffrey was killed by the Tyrells/Littlefinger.

She appears to have the power to see visions in the fires but frequently misinterprets them: e.g. she's frequently shown Jon Snow's face when looking into the flames yet hasn't realised that he's the true Azor Ahai. Presumably she'll come to realise her mistake after whatever role she's going to play in his "resurrection" from warging into Ghost and his body being placed in the ice cells...

ArmaniJeanss

To quote another series she 'rainmade' Stannis over the leeches in the fire deaths.

Buggeroo

As far as I recall she isnt seeing Jon Snow's face, she is seeing "snow" and misinterprets this as Stannis lost in the snow with his army.

Kunkka

I think her main power is foresight. With the leeches it wasn't a case of her powers having them killed but she used the fact that she knew they were going to die to make her power look stronger.

Witcher

Buggeroo wrote: »

As far as I recall she isnt seeing Jon Snow's face, she is seeing "snow" and misinterprets this as Stannis lost in the snow with his army.

She sees 'Snow'.

Turtyturd

Why would it needs Kings Blood if they were all an act? Sure, saying that might give it a bit more status but it would create more difficulty maintaining the illusion than it was worth.

prq

She worships the same God as Thoros of Myr, and Thoros is capable of resurrection. So I'd say their powers are quite vast.

Sulla Felix

Didn't the seneschal or whatever of Storms End commit suicide the night after talking to Stannis when he was trying to get at Edric?
He was pumped up and throwing his opposition in Stannis' face one minute and then jumping off a cliff a few hours later.
She definitely took credit for it, so if we take that as true, no reason she couldn't have done the same to Balon, or twisted the Freys actions a bit. Could be there's a middle ground between shadow demons and smoke and mirrors, something a bit more subtle.

Sleepy

I think that to accept her actions as having played a part in the downfall of Robb Stark, Balon Greyjoy or Joffrey Baratheon is wading into the sphere of the Lord (of Light) working in "mysterious ways" tbh. So far in the series, the only magic we've seen Mellisandre perform that can't be explained by anything other than her involvement are the shadow baby assassination of Renly and the glamor she applied to Mance.

Both of these exist in other spheres than the red temple. the shadow baby was created through use of the same blood magic which we've seen Mirri Maz Duur (a priestess of a different religion which worships the "Great Shepard") and which Danaerys accidentally tapped to survive Drogo's funeral pyre and birth her dragons. The glamor applied to Mance would appear to be something to that used by the Faceless Men who worship the "God of Death".

Prophetic visions seem to a dime a dozen in Westeros so her visions in the flames can't necessarily be trusted and as we're told:

AFFC wrote:

'Born amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. I know the prophecy.' Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor. 'Not that I would trust it. Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is... and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.'

So, while she certainly seems to be able to tap some magic, her potions and powders demonstrate that she's also quite keen to exaggerate her abilities. Personally, I take this as a sign that she's not really any more powerful than Mirri Maz Duur was: just more enigmatic about displaying those abilities she does have.