Boiler won't fire up

tony glenn

Hi,
We're just back from a week away. Before we left, I turned off the gas at the 'mains' (we're on a Calor Gas estate)
I turned the gas back on when we returned home, and decided to switch on the CH for an hour. We have a Heatline Compact boiler, it made the usual whirring noise on switch-on, but didn't fire up after 5 seconds or so. I noticed the little red light (indicating gas flow) came on. I tried three or four times, eventually it wouldn't even make the whirring noise.
I thought perhaps the water pressure was a little low, so I opened the loop tap for a few seconds. Apparently I didn't close it fully, the next morning there was water dripping from the base of the boiler and the pressure was way up. I sorted that (hopefully) by opening a radiator valve and letting everything dry out, the pressures back to normal.
The original problem is still there though. The whirring noise but no ignition.
I suspect that there is a pilot light that went out when I switched off the gas, but I assumed that it would automatically re-light on switch-on.
Any advice would be appreciated, everything was working fine before I switched the gas off. Hopefully I haven't screwed things up by tinkering!!!
What is it they say?...'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.....'

shane 007

What's the make & model of boiler?

Egass13

shane 007 wrote: »

What's the make & model of boiler?

Heatline compact Shane , as per his op ,

shane 007

Egass13 wrote: »

Heatline compact Shane , as per his op ,

Sorry, didn't see that what with me speed reading.
Issue could be at the regulator or the boiler.
Your only option is an RGI callout I'm afraid.

scudo2

shane 007 wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see that what with me speed reading.
Issue could be at the regulator or the boiler.
Your only option is an RGI callout I'm afraid.

Is it illegal for a householder to re-set the regulator ?

Just a general question, I'm not supplying info on how.

shane 007

scudo2 wrote: »

Is it illegal for a householder to re-set the regulator ?

Just a general question, I'm not supplying info on how.

Illegal no, advisable no.
I am not saying the regulator requires re-setting as it would have required a drop of pressure below 14mbar & quick enough drop for the regulator to be not able to compensate for the sudden drop.
I am suggesting a faulty reg or a faulty boiler & therefore a visit by a RGI the sensible option as if there was a leak, it would be immediately ruled in.

shane 007

Actually Scudo it could be a lock up due to a leak. The pressure behind the reg would soon run out if there was a leak downstream of the reg & would eventually lock out the reg if the ECV was off.
Well spotted.

scudo2

shane 007 wrote: »

Actually Scudo it could be a lock up due to a leak. The pressure behind the reg would soon run out if there was a leak downstream of the reg & would eventually lock out the reg if the ECV was off.
Well spotted.

Or simply the timeclock/boiler kicked in with gas off ?

It happened to me on my last RGII inspection. I forgot to turn the gas back on !!!
So simple.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Or simply the timeclock/boiler kicked in with gas off ?

It happened to me on my last RGII inspection. I forgot to turn the gas back on !!!
So simple.

They are a safety device, if they trigger the installation must be tested to confirm safety.

It's a pet hate of mine that the resetting of the low pressure cut off is now common place with no fear of any kaboom.

shane 007

scudo2 wrote: »

Or simply the timeclock/boiler kicked in with gas off ?

There's definitely a gas man trying to get out here.

tony glenn

It was the 'bleeder' valve in the meter box, the nice gas man just flicked the little wire lever back and forward, there was a hiss....and everything is OK. The cost? A cup of coffee and a pint next time I see him in the pub. Thanks to all for the input!

Dtp1979

tony glenn wrote: »

It was the 'bleeder' valve in the meter box, the nice gas man just flicked the little wire lever back and forward, there was a hiss....and everything is OK. The cost? A cup of coffee and a pint next time I see him in the pub. Thanks to all for the input!

No soundness test ??

shane 007

tony glenn wrote: »

It was the 'bleeder' valve in the meter box, the nice gas man just flicked the little wire lever back and forward, there was a hiss....and everything is OK. The cost? A cup of coffee and a pint next time I see him in the pub. Thanks to all for the input!

There is no "bleeder" valve. That's the under/over pressurisation trip. You must get a gas soundness test as the gas pressure went somewhere when you switched off the emergency control valve.

tony glenn

tony glenn wrote: »

It was the 'bleeder' valve in the meter box, the nice gas man just flicked the little wire lever back and forward, there was a hiss....and everything is OK. The cost? A cup of coffee and a pint next time I see him in the pub. Thanks to all for the input!

It's a safety device that was reset.

If he didn't put a test on your gas supply pipe he did you no favours, if he did put a test then he's a very nice man.

When these safety devices activate the reasons more often than not aren't gas leak related which leads to complacency by those resetting them, without a test it's impossible to know if you have a gas leak.

Complacency is one of the biggest causes of gas explosion.

tony glenn

OK, points taken. I'm on it, and thanks again.
PS: So are you all saying that it wasn't just because I turned the gas off for a week, and then back on again? (pardon my naivety)

Egass13

tony glenn wrote: »

OK, points taken. I'm on it, and thanks again.
PS: So are you all saying that it wasn't just because I turned the gas off for a week, and then back on again? (pardon my naivety)

Exactly , if you turn it off for a week and back on everything should work as normal. But the pressure in the pipe had to go somewhere in order to trip the safety , which is indicative of an escape .

tony glenn

tony glenn wrote: »

OK, points taken. I'm on it, and thanks again.
PS: So are you all saying that it wasn't just because I turned the gas off for a week, and then back on again? (pardon my naivety)

Thanks, now I understand. And now I'm worried, there's been the faintest smell of gas in the utility room (where the boiler is) for a few months. Just a tiny hint, I was hoping it was my imagination....

Egass13

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks, now I understand. And now I'm worried, there's been the faintest smell of gas in the utility room (where the boiler is) for a few months. Just a tiny hint, I was hoping it was my imagination....

Turn the valve back off and get it checked ASAP is the only advice I can give you , and it's the only advice you really need at this stage

Dtp1979

Egass13 wrote: »

Turn the valve back off and get it checked ASAP is the only advice I can give you , and it's the only advice you really need at this stage

And I'd probably go with another RGI too

Egass13

Dtp1979 wrote: »

And I'd probably go with another RGI too

Well in fairness at least he didn't charge , and unless the op mentioned the suspicion of gas in the utility room he might not of seen the issue . Not saying what he did was right because it wasn't , but I would think worse of him if he handed over a €80 bill at the end. As Gary said , the majority of the time there is no leak , so maybe he's just one of the complacent lads who need a kick in the hole , so to speak, and at worst might teach him to be more thorough in the future

tony glenn

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks, now I understand. And now I'm worried, there's been the faintest smell of gas in the utility room (where the boiler is) for a few months. Just a tiny hint, I was hoping it was my imagination....

I'v found a lot of gas leaks in my days as a first reponder, nearly every leak I found had been smelt by the homeowner who talked themselves out of reporting it.

So here it goes again:

If you smell gas or think you smell gas please turn off your supply at the meter and call networks on 1850 20 50 50 to report the smell.

Gas engineers would rather go out to hundreds of no traces(and a cup of tea;)) than risk a explosion by those who don't phone in a leak because they don't want to be of any trouble.

tony glenn

Done. Thanks again.

tony glenn

Can anyone suggest an RGI in or around the Skibbereen area? I've also heard horror stories about exorbitant callout charges etc. I know safety has no maximum price, but I'd still like to know what cost to expect for a boiler check-up and soundness test?

tony glenn

tony glenn wrote: »

Can anyone suggest an RGI in or around the Skibbereen area? I've also heard horror stories about exorbitant callout charges etc. I know safety has no maximum price, but I'd still like to know what cost to expect for a boiler check-up and soundness test?

From my understanding it's free for the safetycheck and the money side of it starts after any leak is found as the networks RGI will leave your gas isolated.





FYI:If you get your boiler serviced every year, safety would be a major factor of a service so your service engineer should test for gas leaks during a service.

shane 007

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks, now I understand. And now I'm worried, there's been the faintest smell of gas in the utility room (where the boiler is) for a few months. Just a tiny hint, I was hoping it was my imagination....

Remember if you smell LPG, it's heavier than air & will fall to the floor, natural gas being lighter than air will rise. If you are smelling LPG, it's reaching your nose so it's not a faintest smell. It could be considerable.
BGN 1850 20 50 50 is the number to call & they will send Calor or Flogas with 90 minutes. This will be free but they may lock off your meter if the leak is not obvious. Then, you will need a decent RGI to source the leak. If the leak is obvious they generally fix it there & then.

tony glenn

Thanks for that, Shane. I've turned off the gas supply and I'll call the number tomorrow morning.
BTW, Boards.ie.....what a blessing (and possible life-saver?) in so many situations!

DGOBS

Illegal no, advisable no.
I am not saying the regulator requires re-setting as it would have required a drop of pressure below 14mbar & quick enough drop for the regulator to be not able to compensate for the sudden drop.
I am suggesting a faulty reg or a faulty boiler & therefore a visit by a RGI the sensible option as if there was a leak, it would be immediately ruled in.

LPG UPSO do not lock-up at 14mbar, more like 28-32mbar (14mb is the high pressure cut of on a medium pressure NG regulator)
A soundness test, standing and working pressures should all be checked as part of resetting, unless it's a UPSO trip from say a spent cylinder that your replacing.

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

LPG UPSO do not lock-up at 14mbar, more like 28-32mbar (14mb is the high pressure cut of on a medium pressure NG regulator)
A soundness test, standing and working pressures should all be checked as part of resetting, unless it's a UPSO trip from say a spent cylinder that your replacing.

Very true. I mixed up my G's!

tony glenn

Job done and dusted. Thanks to all for the advice and assistance, and it's time to come clean. The helpful guy who originally 'found the problem' and re-set the safety valve was a well-meaning local sparks who has 'gas fitting experience'......he suggested that the boiler needed servicing, as did a local plumber who couldn't find a leak a month or so before.
I called Calor Gas as planned, they sent out an RGI within the hour, who found TWO leaks around the boiler area. Problem solved (and yes, the boiler also needs servicing, booked for next September).
The RGI was expensive enough, but the peace of mind is worth the cost.
I really have learnt a lesson here, so please, don't be giving out to me!!!!
And once again, sincere thanks to all who got involved in this thread, your helpful comments were instrumental in achieving this end-result.

Tony i am very glad that you and yours are safe as in your case the resetting of a safety device (especially with LPG) could of resulted in a brick covered car park where your home once stood which is never a good thing.