Northern Ireland - Still the same old sectarian politics

SharpshooterTom

So yes the results are in and the DUP and Sinn Fein both remain the two largest parties in NI.

Not really suprising and a to be honest a sad indictment of the country to continually give these two useless sectarian parties so much power.

Northern Ireland, remains, and probably will forever remain a sectarian sh!thole unless the country can elect politicians who look to work the two communities together and bridge the divide, rather than engaging in the same point scoring arguments over history and the troubles.

Neither Sinn Fein or the DUP are interested in bridging the sectarian divide because both parties thrive off sectarian divisions and thus if the sectarian divisions were to evaporate they probably wouldn't get any votes.

Some sad stats about Northern Ireland:
- 95% of schoolchildren go to segregated schools (either catholic or protestant state schools)
- 5-10% of all marriages are 'mixed marriages'.
- There are now more peace walls in NI than than in 1998 with the good friday agreement.

Sad legacy of the DUP and Sinn Fein who have done sweet f'all to help bridge any divide 16 years post GFA.

Can anyone else imagine a functioning western democracy behaving like this? People moan about the multiculturalism in parts of the UK I hear, but they really no nothing when they come to Northern Ireland. I can't imagine if I ever moved to Canada or some place this sort of crap would go on. Shame, so many decent people in NI, so many useless politicians elected sadly.

Lastlight.

Get rid of the mandatory coalition and get in an official opposition and allow people to vote a party out of government. Until this happens, this will keep happening and frankly it is boring.

Happyman42

That is an unusual position as we keep getting told on here that NI is fine and doesn't require any change.
The fact of the matter is that NI is a failed political entity and cannot be run as a 'normal democracy' and requires the intervention and an international agreement between two governments.
2 of your 3 statistics where pertinent before any agreement was reached and came about as a result of the slow inevitable failure of the statlet.
The 'peace walls' came about because of belligerence around being forced into 'normalcy'.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

That is an unusual position as we keep getting told on here that NI is fine and doesn't require any change.

Nobody told you that. You've been told that your recipe for change is a misguided one, to say the least. The status quo regarding the sovereignty of NI is the favoured position of the majority in NI, so any change needs to take that reality into account.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Nobody told you that. You've been told that your recipe for change is a misguided one, to say the least. The status quo regarding the sovereignty of NI is the favoured position of the majority in NI, so any change needs to take that reality into account.

The OP wasn't talking about 'sovereignty'.
The day to day functioning of NI as a 'normal' democracy is not possible without the intervention of 2 governments and an international agreement. That is fact, how you are gonna cure that is another debate.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

The OP wasn't talking about 'sovereignty'.
The day to day functioning of NI as a 'normal' democracy is not possible without the intervention of 2 governments and an international agreement. That is fact, how you are gonna cure that is another debate.

And yet you're pretending that "you keep getting told NI is fine"? Nope - what you keep getting told is that your political 'solution' is no solution at all.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

And yet you're pretending that "you keep getting told NI is fine"? Nope - what you keep getting told is that your political 'solution' is no solution at all.

Would you agree that change is needed and if so, what needs to happen?

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would you agree that change is needed and if so, what needs to happen?

Sure. The influence of sectarianism needs to be reduced. For all their failings, the alternatives: Alliance, NI21, PBP, Greens, UKip, etc, offer the best route to reducing division in NI. Labour (the British variety) should embrace the post GFA reality of NI and run candidates there.

Sheldons Brain

Northern Ireland is designed to promote sectarianism, anyone who promotes its continued existence is promoting sectarianism.

alastair

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Northern Ireland is designed to promote sectarianism, anyone who promotes its continued existence is promoting sectarianism.

It's local governance is designed to articulate sectarianism, but it's fairer to say that it's designed to promote inclusion. If people vote for non-sectarian parties or candidates, it stops being sectarian. It cannot promote sectarianism without the consent of the electorate.

Happyman42

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Northern Ireland is designed to promote sectarianism, anyone who promotes its continued existence is promoting sectarianism.

That is the reason why it cannot function as a normal democracy and never will.

Lastlight.

Of course it can function as a democracy. The people should just be allowed to vote a party into government or out of government. This mandatory coalition has failed as it doesn't produce anything. It is about time it was scrapped and we get an official opposition. Otherwise it will continue to be like this.

Karl Stein

Speaking of sectarian politics; here's the all new face of the Traditional Unionist Voice.

I'm so sick of those poor catholic bastards they make me sick they should jut go down to Ireland and then they can fly their flag and change the street sign its about time they realised there are 6 county attached to their beloved Ireland that belongs to britain and always will !!!

twitter.com/photo/1

Belfast's first anti-punctuation TUV councillor.

Ring Asda ... and complain they're selling st patricks day cards with a big ****ing tri colour on them

pbs.twimg.com

Lastlight.

Well done to Diane Dodds. A good Ulster woman and I am sure she will do fine.

A Dub in Glasgo

Even bigger well done to Martina Anderson, elected on the 1st count. A good Ulster woman

Laois_Man

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Some sad stats about Northern Ireland:
- 95% of schoolchildren go to segregated schools (either catholic or protestant state schools)
- 5-10% of all marriages are 'mixed marriages'.

I would think The Republic of Ireland has the exact same "sad stats"!

turnikett1

Laois_Man wrote: »

I would think The Republic of Ireland has the exact same "sad stats"!

Yes, it probably does, in fact probably even more "sad", seeing as a whopping 4.5% of the population are Protestant... :rolleyes:

pO1Neil

I don't think is. It's far-right vs left politics. DUP being far-right & SF being left. For some reason there seems to be an awful lot of far-right bigots in the North who vote for the DUP.

Lastlight.

Its not even a question of political wings, its just heritage and culture.

pO1Neil

Lastlight. wrote: »

Its not even a question of political wings, its just heritage and culture.

Well that's true also but look at SF policies vs DUP policies. SF's are much more liberal whereas DUP's are very conservative almost far-right really.

kabakuyu

Lastlight. wrote: »

Get rid of the mandatory coalition and get in an official opposition and allow people to vote a party out of government. Until this happens, this will keep happening and frankly it is boring.

Would you advocate this course of action if Nationalist/Republican parties held the majority or is this solution only suitable while Unionists have a majority?

Lastlight.

kabakuyu wrote: »

Would you advocate this course of action if Nationalist/Republican parties held the majority or is this solution only suitable while Unionists have a majority?

Yes because if they make a bad job of it, we can eventually vote them out. Its called democracy.

A Dub in Glasgo

The reason there is power sharing is the gross abuse of 'democracy' previously

Lastlight.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The reason there is power sharing is the gross abuse of 'democracy' previously

Which ended a long time ago. Its a red herring to bring it up. Get with it and get a proper democracy and a right to an opposition in place.

kabakuyu

Lastlight. wrote: »

Yes because if they make a bad job of it, we can eventually vote them out. Its called democracy.

Do you really expect me to believe that Unionists would accept a Nat/Rep majority government in NI when thay can't even accept sinn Fein as junior power sharing partners.

oscarBravo

Lastlight. wrote: »

Get with it and get a proper democracy and a right to an opposition in place.

There's nothing about the concept of democracy that requires opposition. The idea that you're not running a country properly if you don't have a party disagreeing with the government purely for the sake of argument is, if anything, a distortion of democracy.

I find the NI governmental system an interesting one: if it can force die-hard enemies to work together for the greater good, there's a lot to be said for it. Apart from anything else, it denies parties the luxury of barracking from the sidelines, comfortable in the knowledge that they never have to implement any of their zany policies.

SharpshooterTom

Lastlight. wrote: »

Its not even a question of political wings, its just heritage and culture.

So you have no interest in integrating Northern Ireland? You want the divisions and sectarianism to remain, am I right?

Would you be in favour of integrated education nationwide throughout the province?

Its a simple question, this is what the thread is about. I want to know the posters who post regarding issues of Northern Ireland their view on what the future of Northern Ireland should be and how it should look.

Lastlight.

I would be in favour of integrated education but many Catholics don't want that. I also want Ulster Protestants to be allowed to keep the heritage they have and not be diluted.

The right to an official opposition should be put in place. The current arrangement is doomed to fail, it is a matter of time. It's unsustainable.

oscarBravo

Lastlight. wrote: »

The right to an official opposition...

...is a fiction. There is no such right. Let it go.

Lastlight.

oscarBravo wrote: »

...is a fiction. There is no such right. Let it go.

It's a figure of expression. Westminster have it and Stormont needs an official opposition. The current set up is going to fall.

J Cheever Loophole

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

So yes the results are in and the DUP and Sinn Fein both remain the two largest parties in NI.

Not really suprising and a to be honest a sad indictment of the country to continually give these two useless sectarian parties so much power.

Northern Ireland, remains, and probably will forever remain a sectarian sh!thole unless the country can elect politicians who look to work the two communities together and bridge the divide, rather than engaging in the same point scoring arguments over history and the troubles.

Neither Sinn Fein or the DUP are interested in bridging the sectarian divide because both parties thrive off sectarian divisions and thus if the sectarian divisions were to evaporate they probably wouldn't get any votes.

Some sad stats about Northern Ireland:
- 95% of schoolchildren go to segregated schools (either catholic or protestant state schools)
- 5-10% of all marriages are 'mixed marriages'.
- There are now more peace walls in NI than than in 1998 with the good friday agreement.

Sad legacy of the DUP and Sinn Fein who have done sweet f'all to help bridge any divide 16 years post GFA.

Can anyone else imagine a functioning western democracy behaving like this? People moan about the multiculturalism in parts of the UK I hear, but they really no nothing when they come to Northern Ireland. I can't imagine if I ever moved to Canada or some place this sort of crap would go on. Shame, so many decent people in NI, so many useless politicians elected sadly.

Whilst the results of the election effectively do reflect a sectarian headcount, I would not be so downbeat about the prospects for a non-sectarian future. The process whereby we go from two generations of sectarian violence to something approaching a normal society was always going to be a long one - certainly counted in generations.

The 'peace process' itself is not even twenty years old yet and I have seen many things that at one time I would have thought an impossibility - Paisley sitting down with Adams, Paisley working with Martin McGuinness, Peter Robinson going to a GAA match, Sinn Fein supporting policing - to name but a few. There has been significant movement since the bad old days to the extent that what was once considered extraordinary is now seen as normal. The DUP and Sinn Fein (as well as the other parties in Stormont) work together on many things - trade and investment as examples - for the benefit of us all.

I would hope in time, as we leave the past behind, that normal electoral issues will start to be foremost in people's minds and that they will vote on policies and mandates rather than on the basis of religion / political outlook. It may take a long time, but we are likely to get there as I think almost everyone up here accepts that there can be no going back to the past.

Things of course are not normal - but if you can step back and consider the issue as a work in progress - then it is possible to be not as desponent about the future.

Laois_Man

turnikett1 wrote: »

Yes, it probably does, in fact probably even more "sad", seeing as a whopping 4.5% of the population are Protestant... :rolleyes:

Infact. In the 2011 Cencus, almost 1 in 5 people declared as Non-Catholic.