X-Men timelines

Bacchus

I don't want to clutter up the X-Men:DoFP so thought I'd start a new thread trying to piece together what exactly is going on with the X-Men continuity now and where does it go next.

Needless to say.... SPOILERS ahead!!!

So, DoFP totally screwed with timelines. Most people agree that X3 has been wiped from history but surely this means X1 & X2 also never happened. In fact, it seems now that only First Class actually happened in this new timeline.

X1, X2, X3 & The Wolverine all never happened now, with the exception of Wolverine who now exists in the timeline at the end of DoFP.

Did Origins happen though? It was set in the 70's too so where does that now fit in. Wolverine in Origins was a lumberjack in Canada when Stryker tricks him into going through the adamantium transplant. However in DoFP, Wolverine is in America doing bodyguard work. Also, Stryker doesn't seem to know Wolverine in the scenes we see of them together... did we actually get a scene where they both see each other? At the end of DoFP Stryker obviously gets his hands on Wolverine so most of Origins can be said to have been retconned.

IMO, the entire set of X-Men movies with the exception of First Class and perhaps the opening 20 minutes of Origins did not happen in the current timeline.

The second part of this is, where next. Obviously Apocalypse is coming but what era will it be set in? The original gang are all back together now. Do they take on Apocalypse or do the First Class generation take him on. I like the uncluttered history of the First Class X-Men but it was cool seeing Cyclops, Jean, Frasier Beast, Iceman etc. from the originals all back on the screen.


One last thing, at the end of DoFP when Wolverine and ProfX meet. ProfX is happy to see his 'old friend'. What about the Wolverine he got to know in the past 30 odd years. He's just gone. No longer in existence, ProfX doesn't seem to care..... what a d*ck

PirateShampoo

Alternative Realitys ......

Skerries

Yeah someone mentioned that this reality is a divergent one from Earth-616 and is now Earth-818

horgan_p

I guess the dark phoenix story can still happen , just different outcome (Cyke doesn't die etc).
In the funny books , they've all been dead and back a half dozen times.

Bacchus

Well yes, this is an alternate reality now but it's interesting to see most people only mention X3 has been retconned when in fact all but 1 of the previous movies have been retconned.

Also, the inconsistencies with respect to the original timeline continued in this one with Wolverine having adamantium claws again, Prof X being alive, Stryker acting as though Origins never happened (which I think it did), Storm being useful.

Oh also, if Mystique was off being experimented on by Trask how was she in the original trilogy. I guess she could have survived and escaped. No sign of sentinels in the originals either. Ah timetravel, thou art a heartless b*tch.

Kirby

Bacchus wrote: »

Also, the inconsistencies with respect to the original timeline continued in this one with Wolverine having adamantium claws again, Prof X being alive, Stryker acting as though Origins never happened (which I think it did), Storm being useful.

Prof X was alive at the end of 3. He transfers his consciousness into the coma guys body.....so him being alive in DOFP is fine. The only issue with it is him looking like himself....but does he? He has mental powers! He can project his old visage into everyone elses head. I prefer this explanation. :P

Bacchus

Kirby wrote: »

Prof X was alive at the end of 3. He transfers his consciousness into the coma guys body.....so him being alive in DOFP is fine. The only issue with it is him looking like himself....but does he? He has mental powers! He can project his old visage into everyone elses head. I prefer this explanation. :P

But he's still in a wheel/hover-chair. Could he have been THAT unlucky to have transferred his mind into another person without the use of his legs.

I guess the beauty (or bane) of these films, as it is in the comics, is that no matter what happens, you can just make up a mutant or power that will paper over the cracks.

There's an interesting enough read here http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/05/23/x-men-ending-future-past/

Good question is asked in it, what reality/time does Wolverine 3 take place in? Is there a point telling another story in the original reality as a sequel to The Wolverine? What about a sort of prequel to DoFP? Or do they go back to the 70's (or even earlier than that)?

JohnK

Bacchus wrote: »

...At the end of DoFP Stryker obviously gets his hands on Wolverine so most of Origins can be said to have been retconned.

That wasn't actually Stryker at the end, in the scene on the boat when they zoomed in on his face it showed Mystique's eyes so unless the real Stryker tracked him down at a later date then Wolverine doesn't have his adamantium claws anymore.

SouthTippBass

JohnK wrote: »

That wasn't actually Stryker at the end, in the scene on the boat when they zoomed in on his face it showed Mystique's eyes so unless the real Stryker tracked him down at a later date then Wolverine doesn't have his adamantium claws anymore.

Ahhhhhhh, well that explains that so. I was wondering what was up with his eyes, cheers

username123

But within DOFP young Prof X went into Wolverines mind and we saw events from all of the previous movies, including X3, so on the one hand it was acknowledged but on the other it wasn't.

I'm also confused by the fact that before the past was changed at all, we learn that Mystique and Magneto were not together in the 1970s and there was bad blood, yet when we first met Rebecca R's Mystique, herself and Magneto were very much the happy partnership.

Bacchus

username123 wrote: »

But within DOFP young Prof X went into Wolverines mind and we saw events from all of the previous movies, including X3, so on the one hand it was acknowledged but on the other it wasn't.

I'm also confused by the fact that before the past was changed at all, we learn that Mystique and Magneto were not together in the 1970s and there was bad blood, yet when we first met Rebecca R's Mystique, herself and Magneto were very much the happy partnership.

I guess that relationship has now changed in this timeline. Instead of Mystique killing Trask, furthering Magneto's cause, she shot Magneto. Any movie following from DoFP is working off a clean sheet I believe... with the exception perhaps of Prof X who has seen the original timeline.

I still don't get how Mystique and the Sentinels fit in to the original timeline. It's as if we're expected to believe that after making these leaps in technology, Trask technologies put everything on hold until around the time The Wolverine is set. X-Men opens with the debate on mutants in it's infancy. They're not widely acknowledged by the public. Surely big Sentinels in the 70's would have resulted in a completely different world than we see in X-Men.

username123

Bacchus wrote: »

I guess that relationship has now changed in this timeline. Instead of Mystique killing Trask, furthering Magneto's cause, she shot Magneto. Any movie following from DoFP is working off a clean sheet I believe... with the exception perhaps of Prof X who has seen the original timeline.

I was talking about the original timeline. Anything goes in the new timeline.

But before Wolverine changed anything in the timeline we know two things:

(a) Rebecca R's Mystique had a relationship of some sort with older Magneto.
(b) Jennifer L's Mystique broke up with Magneto before he was done for killing Kennedy.

But (b) happened in the 70s. So why did Mystique get back with Magneto later (as Rebecca R)?

Tom.D.BJJ

The only timeline i'm interested in is the one that brings me Age of Apocalypse

johnnysmack

username123 wrote: »

But (b) happened in the 70s. So why did Mystique get back with Magneto later (as Rebecca R)?

Peoples relationships with each other change, take the professor and magneto for example, first great buddies then arch enemies and then buddies again in the future.

youngblood

Kirby wrote: »

Prof X was alive at the end of 3. He transfers his consciousness into the coma guys body.....so him being alive in DOFP is fine. The only issue with it is him looking like himself....but does he? He has mental powers! He can project his old visage into everyone elses head. I prefer this explanation. :P

Didnt Charles have a twin who was deformed/drained by Charles in the womb and who was in a coma on an island off Scotland, being looked after by Moira(X3) in the credits scene,

I presume he took over his twins body?

FunLover18

I think the best way to look at it is as two separate universes/franchises

So the original trilogy and the Wolverine spinoffs have taken place in one universe.

Then First Class and DOFP are a new universe. There were already inconsistencies between FC and there are even more between DOFP and the original trilogy; no sentinals, mystique, toad, Trask, etc. The glimpses of Wolverine's life we see through Charles also now act as filler rather than a link to the orignal trilogy and it's all been changed so none of it happened anyway.

Two separate franchises/universes, whatever you want to call em. If the continuity is bugging you this is the only way to look at it where it's not an issue … as far as I can tell

username123

FunLover18 wrote: »

Two separate franchises/universes, whatever you want to call em. If the continuity is bugging you this is the only way to look at it where it's not an issue … as far as I can tell

^^ This doesn't really work though because of the internal referencing in DOFP. When young Prof X goes into Wolverines mind we see events from ALL franchises.

All of the movies have suffered from continuity issues to a lesser or greater extent, but this one feels like they just randomly grabbed bits they wanted to use, ignored other things, with no unified vision at all. For me it's bad enough to have lessened my enjoyment of the film substantially. From the odd dystopian future somewhere in Asia(let's make it look Chinese-y!), to the completely unexplained massive continuity issues, to financial decisions like using Mystique when Rogue would have been a more logical choice just because the actress was JLaw, to getting the time travel wrong (I really hate that!), it was a bit of fun but way down the list in terms of best X Men movies for me.

I see a lot of reviews saying it's such a great X Men movie, best in years etc... I guess lots of people don't mind internal inconsistency in universes.

Mickeroo

The fact it was such a good film rendered all the continuity errors meaningless for me. They very deliberately picked and chose what they wanted to use from previous films as far as I can see but this was more a reboot than a sequel in Singer's pov I think. Sure mystique and Charles were never old friends until First Class came along (arguably the only film that ties in with this seamlessly).

FunLover18

username123 wrote: »

^^ This doesn't really work though because of the internal referencing in DOFP. When young Prof X goes into Wolverines mind we see events from ALL franchises.

All of the movies have suffered from continuity issues to a lesser or greater extent, but this one feels like they just randomly grabbed bits they wanted to use, ignored other things, with no unified vision at all. For me it's bad enough to have lessened my enjoyment of the film substantially. From the odd dystopian future somewhere in Asia(let's make it look Chinese-y!), to the completely unexplained massive continuity issues, to financial decisions like using Mystique when Rogue would have been a more logical choice just because the actress was JLaw, to getting the time travel wrong (I really hate that!), it was a bit of fun but way down the list in terms of best X Men movies for me.

I see a lot of reviews saying it's such a great X Men movie, best in years etc... I guess lots of people don't mind internal inconsistency in universes.

But if we use the 2 universes explanation what we see in Wolverine's head can just be seen as a glimpse of a future. There's no dialogue and very little plot detail. If someone went into DOFP only having seen FC and not knowing anything about the original trilogy they'd just assume "****, he's been through a lot and the future is pretty grim" and there's enough in those few glimpses to get the impact of everyone still being alive at the end when Wolverine wakes up.

Rogue wasn't even born in 1973 so Trask can't use her. Really the person to use would have been the black guy in First Class who can adapt but he got killed off

username123

Mickeroo wrote: »

The fact it was such a good film rendered all the continuity errors meaningless for me.

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way. For me it just can't be that good because of the continuity problems. It's a bit like Bobby Ewing in the shower. You can't bring someone back to life by retrospectively deciding it was all a dream and you can't just have old Prof X and Magneto running around like one never lost his powers and the other was never vaporised. I bought into the story so no amount of well made movie will overcome fundamental story continuity for me.

It generally takes me a bit of time to decide on how I feel about a movie, the more time passes since I saw this, the less enamoured I am by it. Although I totally agree it was a good looking film with good actors, a good script etc...the story failed.

enfant terrible

http://imgur.com/a/B2M1n

FunLover18

enfant terrible wrote: »

http://imgur.com/a/B2M1n

It's good but it doesn't explain Mystique's presence in the original trilogy given that she was supposedly experimented on by Trask. Isn't Trask a black guy in Last Stand? And doesn't Moira McTaggart also appear in Last Stand not having aged that much in 30 years?