Income Tax Payer Party

fliball123

Just trying to parse through all of the canditates for the Euros and to date not one person whether with a party or individuals are canvasing what the country needs and that is to loosen the noose that is around the income tax payers of this country...Its either the main parties (FF,FG, Labour)who we know just lie through their teeth in order to get power, the loony left who promise the Robin Hood approach rob from the rich and give to the poor but seem to have no substance on how this would work out when Robin Hood and the multiple of MNCs phucks off to another country.

Not one person has a clear cut message of how we get out of the crap we are in. The only person I would even consider voting for was an independant chap who was on Vinny Browns show and his simple pitch was I will go to the Euros and all I will take on pay is the dole plus expenses...Thats the type of leadership we need people who are prepared to do things for the sake of the country not their pocket.

hfallada

If you want to throw a politicians ask his/her views on the taxation. Once they get over the initial shock of being asked a question he/she hasnt prepared a generic answer to, they will struggle to come with an answer that isnt BS. I cant understand how people moan over water charges or a tv license, when they are probably paying 3/4 times as much in USC, a "levy" that was supposed to be temporary.

We have to be the only nation in Europe, that is so obsessed with indirect taxes. People were more upset a few years ago that VAT was increased to 23%, but had no problem with USC being put on their income. Socialist seem to think the wealthy will still work if they were paying higher income tax, but seem to forget that our most skilled workers are going abroad to low tax countries. They also seem to forget that Ireland is beside the Isle of Man and other tax "friendly" countries and income tax and CGT is extremely low there. But its only a short plane ride away.

Riskymove

fliball123 wrote: »

The only person I would even consider voting for was an independant chap who was on Vinny Browns show and his simple pitch was I will go to the Euros and all I will take on pay is the dole plus expenses...Thats the type of leadership we need people who are prepared to do things for the sake of the country not their pocket.

I really don't get this....so he could be the most incompetent, lazy person but you'd vote for him because of this?

In relation to the "PAYE party", the problem is that, while obviously a huge proportion of voters are PAYE workers, they have incredibly diverse views

The Corinthian

hfallada wrote: »

Socialist seem to think the wealthy will still work if they were paying higher income tax, but seem to forget that our most skilled workers are going abroad to low tax countries.

/me yodels in the direction of Ireland while sitting on top of the Alps...

RichardAnd

Riskymove wrote: »

I really don't get this....so he could be the most incompetent, lazy person but you'd vote for him because of this?

What you've just hit on is probably what makes the decision for many, many voters when they decide to cast their vote. Humans are extremely impressionable, and they often form views about someone from very limited information. I'm reminded of the King of the Hill episode where Hank changes his mind about voting for George W. simply because of the latter's weak handshake.

And before anyone says it, I'm not trying to hold myself above anyone else. If I were the type to do so, I would probably support a statesman to be simply because of a shared interest. I'm especially vulnerable to talented musicians.

antoobrien

RichardAnd wrote: »

What you've just hit on is probably what makes the decision for many, many voters when they decide to cast their vote.

I filter my votes based on how believable their lies policies are (with the full knowledge that local policies will be overruled from HQ if deemed necessary).

fliball123

Riskymove wrote: »

I really don't get this....so he could be the most incompetent, lazy person but you'd vote for him because of this?

In relation to the "PAYE party", the problem is that, while obviously a huge proportion of voters are PAYE workers, they have incredibly diverse views

At least he is willing to do something none of the rest of the politicians are and thats to feel the pain of ordinary people. He said he wouldnt take a pension either...So to me he is a step up from the rest but thats just my opinion

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

At least he is willing to do something none of the rest of the politicians are and thats to feel the pain of ordinary people. He said he wouldnt take a pension either...So to me he is a step up from the rest but thats just my opinion

Joe Higgins is obviously your hero too as he claims to only take the average industrial wage as a salary.

Funny, i never figured you as a socialist.

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

Joe Higgins is obviously your hero too as he claims to only take the average industrial wage as a salary.

Funny, i never figured you as a socialist.

I am no socialist far from it but it was by far the best pitch I heard. He didnt claim he would tax the rich or tell Europe to Phuck off...or any other pointless statements that all of these guys make when the reality behind it we could send 20 gung-ho mouthpeices to Europe and it wont make a blind bit of difference

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

Joe Higgins is obviously your hero too as he claims to only take the average industrial wage as a salary.

Funny, i never figured you as a socialist.

Not at all I have never heard any joined up thinking from anyone on the left bar tax the rich which wont bring in any money at all as they will flee...not to mention the state that the top 4% of earners pay 45% of all taxes paid here.....

Paulzx

The only person I would even consider voting for was an independant chap who was on Vinny Browns show and his simple pitch was I will go to the Euros and all I will take on pay is the dole plus expenses...Thats the type of leadership we need people who are prepared to do things for the sake of the country not their pocket.

Posting Rules

Your argument makes no sense. As seen from your direct quote you've expressed a willingness to vote for someone purely based upon their indication to take a cut rate salary if elected. You know nothing about their policies etc. My highlighting Joe Higgins ( who i personally wouldn't vote for)as someone who has pulled a similar stunt and your subsequent poo pooing of his status due to being a left wing politician shows the folly of your original point.

Your not making sense.........................as per usual

Idbatterim

in fairness, the entire tax system is dysfunctional, but there is no way I would change anything except the marginal rate, that is the real problem. The whole set up is a joke and we could discuss different ways of doing things or more bands etc, but it wont happen, so whats the point. Starting to dismantle and destroy the tax base, on lower paid who pay very little i.e. undoing everything that has been done, seems moronic to me.

jman0war

fliball123 wrote: »

Just trying to parse through all of the canditates for the Euros and to date not one person whether with a party or individuals are canvasing what the country needs and that is to loosen the noose that is around the income tax payers of this country...Its either the main parties (FF,FG, Labour)who we know just lie through their teeth in order to get power, the loony left who promise the Robin Hood approach rob from the rich and give to the poor but seem to have no substance on how this would work out when Robin Hood and the multiple of MNCs phucks off to another country.

Not one person has a clear cut message of how we get out of the crap we are in. The only person I would even consider voting for was an independant chap who was on Vinny Browns show and his simple pitch was I will go to the Euros and all I will take on pay is the dole plus expenses...Thats the type of leadership we need people who are prepared to do things for the sake of the country not their pocket.

Yes i thought this also.
What about "Tax Payer Alliance" as a name of a party.
They have a grass roots thing in the UK, makes for a good starting point.
https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/

comongethappy

Its commendable to desire a state that has low tax.

You may be surprised to learn, Ireland is only now around average for taxation vs peer countries after decades of being comparatively low tax.

Icepick

hfallada wrote: »

If you want to throw a politicians ask his/her views on the taxation. Once they get over the initial shock of being asked a question he/she hasnt prepared a generic answer to, they will struggle to come with an answer that isnt BS. I cant understand how people moan over water charges or a tv license, when they are probably paying 3/4 times as much in USC, a "levy" that was supposed to be temporary.

We have to be the only nation in Europe, that is so obsessed with indirect taxes. People were more upset a few years ago that VAT was increased to 23%, but had no problem with USC being put on their income. Socialist seem to think the wealthy will still work if they were paying higher income tax, but seem to forget that our most skilled workers are going abroad to low tax countries. They also seem to forget that Ireland is beside the Isle of Man and other tax "friendly" countries and income tax and CGT is extremely low there. But its only a short plane ride away.

The protesters are mostly on welfare.

greendom

Icepick wrote: »

The protesters are mostly on welfare.

Is that a hunch or a provable fact?

OMD

Paulzx wrote: »

Joe Higgins is obviously your hero too as he claims to only take the average industrial wage as a salary.
.

A lot of politicians claim to only take the average industrial wage. Not one of them actually does but it is part of the marketing ploy they use. There are enough gullible people around to vote for them.

blackbaron

There is no political entity in Ireland looking out for those generating income tax revenue. Not one. If you want to pay less tax, get more from the tax you pay and enjoy a higher quality of life just get on the plane and leave.

Many have, many are and I hope enough skilled and educated people in Ireland do the same and cause a massive crisis for the country. The politicians and their "more handouts!" crying supporters deserve nothing less.

Idbatterim

I know of two self employed people who cap their pay at the marginal rate, the businesses Cant really afford to pay any more, but they also arent motivated to earn more, understandable the government are earning more than them from it, its beyond laughable or sick whatever way you want to look at it...

blackbaron

Idbatterim wrote: »

I know of two self employed people who cap their pay at the marginal rate, the businesses Cant really afford to pay any more, but they also arent motivated to earn more, understandable the government are earning more than them from it, its beyond laughable or sick whatever way you want to look at it...

It will never change either.

Those receiving welfare/handouts in Ireland believe they're "entitled" to it, meaning that it can never be drastically scaled back. In order to "give the taxpayers a break" Ireland's income would have to go up massively, and since Ireland has very, very, very little to offer foreign investment these days, that's pretty unlikely.

Idbatterim

Also I have people turning down extra hours in work at 25-30 per hour, they don't deem it worthwhile to give over half their earnings to go down the black hole or don't need it...

blackbaron

There's no incentive in Ireland to more than the minimum. You put the effort in and move up the ranks? You'll get a pay increase, give away 54% of it to tax and be only a few grand ahead of your old position but with dramatically increased responsibilities and accountability.

While at the same time, after going to work 35+ hours per week, you open the newspaper and read of those who aren't bothered doing anything demanding more, more, more from you and more of a cut of the earnings from the work you've spend those 35+ hours doing.

And every single political entity comes out, stands on the stage and basically says "we're going to give you X more for FREE!" i.e. from the taxpayers pocket.Vile.

zielarz

The income tax payers became a minority that nobody wants to defend. We pay for everything, welfare aristocrats pay for nothing, not even for a bus ticket. They've got no responsibilities. Why other taxpayers rather than fathers are paying for their children? I have no idea why but it's considered 'fair' in this country. It's fair that I am paying for my children, my rent, my health insurance AND for their children, their rents, health insurance and their f..g bus ticket.

comongethappy

Well, as expected, this weekends results showed that a "Taxpayer party" couldn't be further from the thoughts of the electorate.

The voters rewarded those who promised the most spending & biggest government.

Even the thought of trying to balance the government budget is a non-starter in the eyes of an increasing segment of the electorate.

oscarBravo

comongethappy wrote: »

Even the thought of trying to balance the government budget is a non-starter in the eyes of an increasing segment of the electorate.

You underestimate the power of the magic money tree. (AKA, tax the rich!)

josip

Idbatterim wrote: »

I know of two self employed people who cap their pay at the marginal rate, the businesses Cant really afford to pay any more, but they also arent motivated to earn more, understandable the government are earning more than them from it, its beyond laughable or sick whatever way you want to look at it...

I know of one self employed person who caps his pay at the marginal rate, and expenses as much again, and says that at best his business is breaking even.

Godge

oscarBravo wrote: »

You underestimate the power of the magic money tree. (AKA, tax the rich!)

Heard Coppinger on the telly last night, trumpeting her idea of a one-off 5% wealth tax that would generate €2.9 Bn on assets worth over €1 million.

Nobody asked here what would happen year 2?

Also nobody pointed out that on a family farm worth €1.5m, there would be an overnight tax of €25,000 imposed.

I am all for a wealth tax but at a level of 5% it is nonsense.

josip

Godge wrote: »

Heard Coppinger on the telly last night, trumpeting her idea of a one-off 5% wealth tax that would generate €2.9 Bn on assets worth over €1 million.

Nobody asked here what would happen year 2?

Also nobody pointed out that on a family farm worth €1.5m, there would be an overnight tax of €25,000 imposed.

I am all for a wealth tax but at a level of 5% it is nonsense.

Would you see any difference between a family farm and a family business?

comongethappy

josip wrote: »

Would you see any difference between a family farm and a family business?

I wouldnt. Farms are businesses.
I assume he was just giving an example.

Either way, its a terrible idea on Coppinger's part.

Godge

josip wrote: »

Would you see any difference between a family farm and a family business?

Nope, Coppinger is targetting both.

An annual wealth tax at a rate such as 0.2% on such assets (farms, businesses, property, shares, pension funds, cash holdings etc.) is not a bad idea. It is a stable source of revenue compared to say stamp duty which depends on the number of transactions. It is also at a level low enough to make it sustainable and also to make it unlikely that mass transfers of wealth abroad would occur.

Of course the best tax is one based on land as you can't move land out of the country.

But at a rate of 5% as suggested by Coppinger it is nonsense. They put it at that rate to fill a huge gap in the finances of what they are proposing.

Sam Russell

Godge wrote: »

Nope, Coppinger is targetting both.

An annual wealth tax at a rate such as 0.2% on such assets (farms, businesses, property, shares, pension funds, cash holdings etc.) is not a bad idea. It is a stable source of revenue compared to say stamp duty which depends on the number of transactions. It is also at a level low enough to make it sustainable and also to make it unlikely that mass transfers of wealth abroad would occur.

Of course the best tax is one based on land as you can't move land out of the country.

But at a rate of 5% as suggested by Coppinger it is nonsense. They put it at that rate to fill a huge gap in the finances of what they are proposing.

The Gov have just introduced a 0.2% on property, just as you suggest. It just needs to be extended. CGT and Dirt has been increased to 40% which hits share and cash deposits. They had a grab on pension funds already. Businesses are being destroyed by commercial rates. So they are getting there, only farms not touched..

Hmmmm, they left farms out of it though, I wonder why?

Godge

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Gov have just introduced a 0.2% on property, just as you suggest. It just needs to be extended. CGT and Dirt has been increased to 40% which hits share and cash deposits. They had a grab on pension funds already. Businesses are being destroyed by commercial rates. So they are getting there, only farms not touched..

Hmmmm, they left farms out of it though, I wonder why?

There are plenty of unused buildings and sites not paying either property tax or commercial rates. They could be brought within the remit of one or the other.

Commercial rates could be extended to businesses working from home including bed and breakfasts who are currently exempt.

A land tax could be introduced.

The NPPR tax could be reintroduced.

CGT and CAT exemptions could be lowered.

All of the above are taxes on wealth rather than income and should be introduced in order to bring down income taxes.

Sam Russell

Godge wrote: »

There are plenty of unused buildings and sites not paying either property tax or commercial rates. They could be brought within the remit of one or the other.

Commercial rates could be extended to businesses working from home including bed and breakfasts who are currently exempt.

A land tax could be introduced.

The NPPR tax could be reintroduced.

CGT and CAT exemptions could be lowered.

All of the above are taxes on wealth rather than income and should be introduced in order to bring down income taxes.

But no FG gov is going to agree to taxing their friends.

The housing crisis would evaporate if unused land, zoned for housing, was taxed at a rate simillar to it built on rate. Come to think of it, if this just applied to Dublin, it might kill the bubble before it gets too big.

Godge

Sam Russell wrote: »

But no FG gov is going to agree to taxing their friends.

The housing crisis would evaporate if unused land, zoned for housing, was taxed at a rate simillar to it built on rate. Come to think of it, if this just applied to Dublin, it might kill the bubble before it gets too big.

Exactly. It should have been done years ago. There are still vast quantities of undeveloped or brownsite land within the M50.