CAT 7 Cable

ocy

When we renovated our house, the architect spec'd cat 7 cable. So now we have a lot of cables that haven't been terminated.

My question in can anyone recommend someone / company that can terminate these cables at each end so we can use them. We currently use wireless....

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum

Cuddlesworth

Sounds like you're all set for your 10gig home network. Cat7 will terminate on normal RJ45 wall ports and connectors, most electricians or IT heads can do it.

On a side note, why do you need hard-wired cables? Do they all terminate in the same location?

Alun

It's worth noting that as you go up the CAT numbers and speeds, things like correct termination (keeping untwisted length to an absolute minimum and not stripping back the outer jacket too far when terminating on a socket) and minimizing bend radiuses and proximity to other cabling becomes much more critical than it is with lower speeds, especially as you reach the maximum cable run lengths. Just using CAT 7 cable is not a guarantee of 10GigE speeds, essentially to achieve the full capabilities of any CAT 'x' installation, the whole chain from end to end, including patch cables, has to be done to the same specs.

Also, as has been shown many times here, many architects / builders / electricians don't have a clue about network cabling and often end up looping them through from room to room like power cabling, rather than routing them all through to a central location in a separate utility cabinet or the attic. If this is the case, you can pretty much forget using them for anything much.

ocy

I spoke with a techy guy and this was his reply

Apparently it seems there is no market in Ireland for amateur CAT7 termination due to
a) the lack of any real devices that can operate at the b/w offered (and need the required connectors etc) - between 1Gb and 10Gb
b) as a result the lack of penetration of CAT7 in any area other than media and data centres,
d) the relatively high costs of components/cable etc and finally
e) the expertise required to terminate CAT7 correctly to ensure you get the full benefit of CAT7 b/w etc

As most domestic LAN devices can at most operate at GigE (1Gb), which can be server with CAT6a there appears to be very little demand or justification for CAT7.

Here's the core problem - to get the most out of your CAT7 cable (i.e. not cripple it to CAT6 or worse) you will need to use GG45 connectors and jacks. The CC45 connectors are backwardly compatible with RJ45 (so you can plug in existing LAN cables etc) but unfortunately GG45 jacks are not backwardly compatible with RJ45 connector so you can't really use them with existing RJ45 based switches etc.

So if you want a fully compliant CAT7 backbone (as future proofing) this means either
a) getting new (very expensive) switches (for at least the central switch) or
b) terminating your CAT7 in RJ45 (which will reduce the ultimate, theoretical performance (down from in theory <=10GB) to <=1GB).

With a) you will ultimately be running at the back haul speed of the lowest device in the short term i.e. the access point switch/router from your ISP/comms provider, typically GigE. While you might get GigE between switches you clearly will only get 100MB end to end.

(You may intend connecting other devices via CAT7 where I believe the higher bandwidth does help e.g. audio/video but don't know much about this.)

If you want the full GG45 connectors and jacks to ensure you get fulll CAT7 performance etc - these come in at nearly £18/each ex VAT (about 21/ea inc VAT) with postage on top of this. You will need x2 per run.

These connectors will fit in standard socket housings but you will need to purchase the blanks etc unless your electrician or builder has already installed these.

Tools to do the GG45 terminations correctly will cost in excess of £200 ex VAT

Seen as we have the Cable I ideally would like to future proof the cables. Reason I would like this now, is our wireless BB (UPC) signal doesnt work at our telly, router is opp end of house in extension to front/side and telly is in ext to rear of house.
So really looking for someone who wires offices and willing to do small nixer

ED E

In a residential premises, for now, there is no need for 10GB, you NICs wont support it and even if they did I doubt you'll be moving terabytes around the house daily.

What I'd suggest as an option:

1. Get them terminated for GigE now, regular RJ45 connectors for 50c a pice, the tool is a €20. This will get you going fine for the next 3-5yrs. Just make sure to leave some cable slack behind the sockets
2. When CAT7 becomes more mainstream in said 3-5yrs you'll be able to get them re-terminated for a lot less, or even practice and do it yourself

Cuddlesworth

ocy wrote: »

Here's the core problem - to get the most out of your CAT7 cable (i.e. not cripple it to CAT6 or worse) you will need to use GG45 connectors and jacks. The CC45 connectors are backwardly compatible with RJ45 (so you can plug in existing LAN cables etc) but unfortunately GG45 jacks are not backwardly compatible with RJ45 connector so you can't really use them with existing RJ45 based switches etc.

No sure where you are going with this. How about he terminates the CAT7 with RJ45 now and gets 1 gig, then in 8 years time if he really needs 10gig he can cut each cable back 1 inch and terminate in GG45?

Or is it that he mentioned CAT7 that we all need to discuss the merits of a standard I have yet to see outside of a 1mil SAN.

brianwalshcork

Agree that there is no requirement for full cat7 , But he could also terminate to cat6a - and patch with cat5e... Cat 6a is good for 10Gb/s ..

Cat6a might have been good enough for the cabling... But I've never regretted future proofing structured cabling. This building will still be in use in 30 years time.

Op, where are you based?

ocy

Live in dublin (dundrum) area. Just looking to use the cabling sseen as we have paid for it.

Ideally to boost the wireless in our living room which is non existent at the moment and to attic bedroom

BigEejit

Cat 7 is a pain in the ass to do anything with, very stiff.

By the way, plain old cat 6 properly terminated is good for 10gb up to 55 meters. Is your panel where all the cables end up less than 55 meters from anywhere in your house? Yes? Then thats all you needed.

As mentioned, 10gb stuff is very expensive and a 10gb nic running at full belt will use a lot of host cpu cycles.

ocy

CAT 6 would have been sufficient, but the Architect spec'd CAT7 and thats what we are stuck with

ArielAtom

Well it looks like we are going to jump Cat 7 in the standards now and go straight to Cat 8. I would not recommend anyone wire a house past Cat6a as most people are running a max of 1g which Cat5e will run for you. The shielding on you cable is really important to get right. If you don't you will in affect create an antennae. You will need to ensure that you main cabinet has a good clean earth and that you ground the outlets.

I know a few lads in your area that would terminate it for you at a price.

AA.

ocy

Can you pm me with details, can't make a call until I have an idea of cost

BigEejit

In cat7 cables each of the twisted wire pairs is fully shielded, either Screen Shielded Twisted Pair (SSTP) or Screened Foiled Twisted Pair (SFTP). The 4 shielded pairs are usually also shielded as a whole. Because of this it makes no difference if it runs parallel to power cables as long as it is properly terminated/grounded.

There is a company in the uk that uses cat 8 to distribute audio/video/network/phone from a patch cabinet. No idea of pricing but expect it to be loads.....Singlepointnetworks.co.uk . Does it do 40gbit as well as all of this? nope, it is using some of the pairs for transmission of the other services.

ArielAtom

Cat 8 is not a standard. It is still a draft yet to be published. It will not run 40gb. Fibre at present is using 8 core's to achieve this. Cisco have said they have achieved 40gb over on 2 core's but it is not in production yet. You cannot run shielded cables next to power!!!! There are still minimum seperation distances to be adherred to.

The correct term for them now is F/UTP, SF/UTP, S/UTP.

BigEejit

Did I say cat 8 was a standard?. From their website:
http://singlepointnetworks.co.uk/cat8cable.asp

I have run a cat 7 alongside a power cable (about 6 feet coming into a house through a tight conduit with an acute bend in it) and we made damn sure that the cat 7 cable was properly terminated with shielded connectors at each end. I tested and the full 30 odd meter cable worked very happily at 1gb.

ArielAtom

BigEejit wrote: »

Did I say cat 8 was a standard?. From their website:
http://singlepointnetworks.co.uk/cat8cable.asp

I never said you did, I was just educating the OP.

I have run a cat 7 alongside a power cable (about 6 feet coming into a house through a tight conduit with an acute bend in it) and we made damn sure that the cat 7 cable was properly terminated with shielded connectors at each end. I tested and the full 30 odd meter cable worked very happily at 1gb.

You can run 1gb on Cat 5e. Testing a cable just means that it meets the Standards (Minimum Best Practices). When the cable in question is running higher speeds and the power cable is drawing higher current and the fact you have acute bends may lead to performance issues. Minimum bend radii must be adhered to.

As a matter of interest what test equipment did you test the Cat 7 to and what standards did you use?

BigEejit

ArielAtom wrote: »

You can run 1gb on Cat 5e. Testing a cable just means that it meets the Standards (Minimum Best Practices). When the cable in question is running higher speeds and the power cable is drawing higher current and the fact you have acute bends may lead to performance issues. Minimum bend radii must be adhered to.
As a matter of interest what test equipment did you test the Cat 7 to and what standards did you use?

Jesus christ ....
this was in a home environment connecting to next door. Like in the OP, its a home fecking environment.... and sometimes you have to cut corners and not chase two fecking channels down the wall and not have two cable ducts into the house instead of one.
I ran cat 7 because it was what we had around the place, and I knew it was shielded.

To test I connected a router to one end (with a nas connected to that) and a laptop at the other end and transferred ~14GB data trouble free. In parallel with that data copy I also did 4 hours of pings there was not a single dropped packet.

How much checking do you do for home network cables?

ArielAtom

BigEejit wrote: »

Jesus christ ....
this was in a home environment connecting to next door. Like in the OP, its a home fecking environment.... and sometimes you have to cut corners and not chase two fecking channels down the wall and not have two cable ducts into the house instead of one.
I ran cat 7 because it was what we had around the place, and I knew it was shielded.

To test I connected a router to one end (with a nas connected to that) and a laptop at the other end and transferred ~14GB data trouble free. In parallel with that data copy I also did 4 hours of pings there was not a single dropped packet.

How much checking do you do for home network cables?

I test with a level 3 tester. That will tell me if the installed cable is running to the correct standard. What you have done is not a test. It is proof that it will transfer data and that is all. If you are going to the bother of installing a network do it right. Test to the relevant standards.

Cuddlesworth

ArielAtom wrote: »

I test with a level 3 tester. That will tell me if the installed cable is running to the correct standard. What you have done is not a test. It is proof that it will transfer data and that is all. If you are going to the bother of installing a network do it right. Test to the relevant standards.

Yeah, the best thing you can do on a home install is go out and spend 20 quid on some ducting, 80 quid a 300m reel of CAT6, 20 quid on some face plates and a crimper, 100 quid for the electrician and a 5000-8000 quid L3 tester. Cause you know, its worth testing to the relevant standards.

BigEejit

It is proof that it will transfer data...

It is proof that all 8 wires are intact. For a HOME installation there is a 99.9% chance that the people using that cable will never go to 10Gb. Firing data down it is just fine for testing at home.

The correct standards are great in businesses and datacentres, we are talking about a home network.

ArielAtom

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yeah, the best thing you can do on a home install is go out and spend 20 quid on some ducting, 80 quid a 300m reel of CAT6, 20 quid on some face plates and a crimper, 100 quid for the electrician and a 5000-8000 quid L3 tester. Cause you know, its worth testing to the relevant standards.

The electrician should have all the tools if he is going to do a job!!!!!!!! Testers can be rented or borrowed as most sparks do. Your mention of 5-8k is a little silly.

ArielAtom

BigEejit wrote: »

It is proof that all 8 wires are intact. For a HOME installation there is a 99.9% chance that the people using that cable will never go to 10Gb. Firing data down it is just fine for testing at home.

The correct standards are great in businesses and datacentres, we are talking about a home network.

It is not proof that all 8 wires are in intact. A simple continuity test will do that though. I never mentioned 10gb. Correct testing will ensure optimum performance from the cabling system whatever data rates you decide to throw down it.

Cuddlesworth

ArielAtom wrote: »

The electrician should have all the tools if he is going to do a job!!!!!!!! Testers can be rented or borrowed as most sparks do. Your mention of 5-8k is a little silly.

Do you have any experience of the world outside of Enterprise level companies?

ArielAtom

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Do you have any experience of the world outside of Enterprise level companies?

Yes, I run my own cabling company and install every network to the standards, whether it be a 10 point job in the local dentists offices or a 5k point in a Multinational or Data Centre. Much the same as any good tradesman does, he works to best practices.

ocy

All I want is great internet coverage in the living room and attic bedroom (we dont have this at the moment), but we do have cable running to these locations.

Seen as I have the cables I just thought it would be a good idea to use them and ideally future proof (should I need it in the future) assuming they are all intact (i have no reason to believe they are not).

If anyone knows a electrician that has the equipment to carry out this work, could they please let me know

BigEejit

ArielAtom wrote: »

It is not proof that all 8 wires are in intact.

Hmm, can you therefore explain to me how I could go about transferring data at gigabit speeds in a cable with 7 or fewer wires?

A simple continuity test will do that though.

Transferring several gigs of data over a ethernet cable at 1Gb is not as good as a simple continuity test? well, you learn something ..er.. different ... every day

BigEejit

ocy wrote: »

All I want is great internet coverage in the living room and attic bedroom (we dont have this at the moment), but we do have cable running to these locations.

Seen as I have the cables I just thought it would be a good idea to use them and ideally future proof (should I need it in the future) assuming they are all intact (i have no reason to believe they are not).

If anyone knows a electrician that has the equipment to carry out this work, could they please let me know

Where do you live?
If you just wanted 100Mbit speeds you can go and buy a RJ45 crimping tool and RJ45 connectors for under a tenner and do it yourself. For instructions, see:
http://www.wikihow.com/Crimp-Rj45
Oh and you can get a simple cable tester for under a fiver as well if you wanted to avoid the dangers of not getting tested to standards (whatever they may be??)
If you wanted gigabit then you need to take a lot more care but it can be done at home without great expense

ocy

Would prefer gg45 connectors make most of cat7 cable
Live dublin 16

Cuddlesworth

ocy wrote: »

Would prefer gg45 connectors make most of cat7 cable
Live dublin 16

Good luck with that.