Draft National Aviation Policy

GCU Flexible Demeanour

This strikes me as worthy of a thread

The draft National Aviation Policy takes account of submissions received to an Issues Paper published in March 2013. The consultation process provides interested parties with a further opportunity to shape the future of Irish aviation policy before the final report is published. The draft Policy can be accessed at here. Submissions are invited by 31st July 2014.

Hidden beneath carefully worded recommendations, and tacking on an obligatory "And Shannon" every time the US is mentioned, there is some fairly straight comment in the draft

In particular, the strategic importance of Dublin Airport extends far beyond its geographic catchment area and its future is critically bound up with the Irish economy e.g. inward investment, tourism, trade etc. This strategic importance is also reflected in the nature and extent of the competition that Dublin Airport faces.

Many of the respondents considered that Dublin Airport is the only airport in the State which could be described as critical to national business and tourism needs. It handles 80% of all passengers into and out of the State and 85% of air freight.

To ensure future connectivity and to deliver growth, it will be important that the State airports, Dublin in particular, have runways of sufficient length to enable services to operate to global emerging markets without weight restriction.<...> By 2025, 136 new cities are expected to enter the world‘s top 600, all of them in the developing world and overwhelmingly in China.

Using current aircraft fleets, it is not possible to reach many of these top cities from the existing runway at Dublin Airport.<...> Dublin Airport is constrained as a result of it not having a parallel runway. Both Shannon and Cork Airports have considerable scope to increase passenger numbers with their existing infrastructure<...>Dublin Airport has secured the land needed for such a runway. While planning permission has already been secured by the DAA for the project, this may need to be revisited to take account of any future Government decisions on a second runway following the outcome of the infrastructure/capacity review that DAA will be required to carry out in 2015.

I'm not sure that these realities have ever been so clearly stated before. If this draft survives the consultation process, it would look to be a good job of work.

Jack1985

Lot's of pages for me to read tonight, will say one thing Leo has had a stellar performance as Minister for Transport/Tourism and Sport - Best Transport minister arguably since, Seamus Brennan?

Razor44

Jack1985 wrote: »

Lot's of pages for me to read tonight, will say one thing Leo has had a stellar performance as Minister for Transport/Tourism and Sport - Best Transport minister arguably since, Seamus Brennan?

Not so sure tbh, He cancelled metro north, when the money was there and ready to go. Also hammering pso routes all over the country.

BonkeyDonker

Razor44 wrote: »

Also hammering pso routes all over the country.

It was more the motorways that hammered the PSO's than anything else.

Jack1985

Razor44 wrote: »

Not so sure tbh, He cancelled metro north, when the money was there and ready to go. Also hammering pso routes all over the country.

I think that was a wise decision all-in.

A320

Razor44 wrote: »

Not so sure tbh, He cancelled metro north, when the money was there and ready to go. Also hammering pso routes all over the country.

The Cork/Limerick M20 upgrade money was also apparently there too

Razor44

A320 wrote: »

The Cork/Limerick M20 upgrade money was also apparently there too

and a few others, i have a list of them somewhere.

the PSO stuff isnt just the air routes, train and bus etc

not going ahead with metro north...imo wasn't a good idea, Infrastructure is always good, have we learnt nothing? it would have been not just good for the airport but also Swords and its large population imo.

A320

even a rail extension from outskirts of west dublin up to airport/swords and back down to city via eastern dublin

kub

Jack1985 wrote: »

Lot's of pages for me to read tonight, will say one thing Leo has had a stellar performance as Minister for Transport/Tourism and Sport - Best Transport minister arguably since, Seamus Brennan?

Oh yes Seamus Brennan, the minister who gave the go ahead for a fortune to be spent on Cork Airports new terminal and guaranteed that the airport would be debt free.

Pity how that guarantee worked out.

Jack1985

kub wrote: »

Oh yes Seamus Brennan, the minister who gave the go ahead for a fortune to be spent on Cork Airports new terminal and guaranteed that the airport would be debt free.

Pity how that guarantee worked out.

Also the same person who allowed FR to get rid of the high fare airlines between DUB-Ireland before the liberation of the air market in Europe. Also regards Cork, he had left in 2004, the terminal was completed in 2006 - Gov reneged on their promise, wouldn't blame him.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Does anyone know what they mean when they say

While planning permission has already been secured by the DAA for the project, this may need to be revisited to take account of any future Government decisions on a second runway following the outcome of the infrastructure/capacity review that DAA will be required to carry out in 2015.

What re-adjustment of the original plan might be needed?

A320

To be fair it was clueless cullen who went back on that

LoonyLovegood

Could it mean that construction might start before they hit 23.5 million passengers?

dubdaymo

Jack1985 wrote: »

Also the same person who allowed FR to get rid of the high fare airlines between DUB-Ireland before the liberation of the air market in Europe.

100% correct. A man of courage and his own convictions. That was the biggest decision in the history of Irish aviation resulting in enormous benefits to the country, to it's tourism industry and to the ordinary people of Ireland. I shudder to think what we would have today if the said airlines had been allowed to continue as they were. All ministers who came after him were useless and had no plan nor even foresight. Mr. Varadkar has not yet come even close but there is still time.

I plan to read his full Policy Draft over the weekend but I hope there is something in there that will ensure that at no time in the future will these vital airports be permitted to be closed down by industrial action and jeopardise all the good progress being made.

squonk

Those paragraphs are, I know, perhaps taken out of context but they read like a cheerleading rant for Dublin. The West is eqaully important. Shannon has been under resourced and underdeveloped for years thanks to the DAA. It's yet more ballsed up government thinking that continues to centralise everything around Dublin. Shannon already has a longer runway. Why upgrade an east coast airport that is already very busy and doing well in it's own right when it makes more sense to locate new business in the Galway-Limerick catchment area?

GCU Flexible Demeanour

squonk wrote: »

<..> Shannon has been under resourced and underdeveloped for years thanks to the DAA. It's yet more ballsed up government thinking that continues to centralise everything around Dublin. Shannon already has a longer runway. Why upgrade an east coast airport that is already very busy and doing well in it's own right when it makes more sense to locate new business in the Galway-Limerick catchment area?

Virtually everything you say there is wrong.

Far from being under-resourced, there isn't a square foot of ground anywhere in Ireland that has received more support than Shannon Airport.

The fact that Dublin was prevented from building a 3,000 metre runway in the past demonstrates that Government "thinking" was to do exactly what you say.

The investment in Dublin Airport will be paid for by Dublin Airport users (just as they are currently paying Shannon's legacy debts), and simply reflects the potential for future growth that Shannon has been demonstrated to be incapable of attracting, despite huge incentives.

The choice isn't between business "locating" in Limerick as opposed to Dublin. The choice is between business locating in Dublin or Manchester.

Someone once rightly said of Shannon Airport "We built it, but they didn't come". Just a pity to see that, about 70 years later, there's still people wedded to the myths you've posted.

IRLConor

squonk wrote: »

it makes more sense to locate new business in the Galway-Limerick catchment area?

If it did, businesses would be locating there.

The government doesn't get to choose where new businesses locate. They can try and incentivise it, but they can't force it to happen.