Parents separating after forty years

Yellow diamond

I was looking for an outsiders opinion on my current family situation, which is just one big mess!

My dad has recently decided to end his marriage as he just had enough of living with my mother....long story short, they should have parted ways twenty years ago! I won't go into the details but I can understand why my dad decided to leave and he is much happier since he did.

The problem is he walked out of the family home with only the clothes on his back and my mother wants to have his name taken off the deeds. just a bit of background... He has been receiving invalidity for over twenty years and this has been his only income as he was unable to work. My mother was in a very good job which she recently retired from and they are mortgage free. My mother feels that because dad walked out that she has been the one paying the mortgage all the years he should get nothing. My dad is in his 60's and not in the best of health. I have sourced him
Some cheap temporary accommodation for three months but he needs to sort out a plan going forward. Neither of them want to go down legal route which I feel leaves us all in limbo and my dad essentially homeless! His health and safety is my main concern. Sorry for the long winded story, my head is wrecked from all this and I have a new baby myself. I would appreciate if anyone had some advice...I know my dad is entitled to half the house but I am not sure he could afford all the legal costs etc...TIA

edanto

There is a free service to help couples work through this difficult time, with a professional mediator. If both were willing to attend the sessions, they might come to an agreement.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/separation_and_divorce/family_mediation_service.html

I don't know much about it, how long it might take to get an appointment/agreement or anything, but it sounds helpful.

If you have any younger siblings, there's also a service called 'teen between' or something like that, which can help people of that age to navigate the tricky waters of separating parents.

Best of luck with the new baby!

Yellow diamond

Thanks Edanto for your helpful advice, I think this is a good solution for us as both myself and my sibling are trying to stay impartial but it's hard.

Also I would like to see a fair outcome for both parents and our family discussions seem to go around in circles! An outsiders perspective is what's needed now. I just hope both will agree to it.

I appreciate your advice, thanks again!

edanto

I'd say they will, and it might be easier if you and sibling approach both parents together with the request that they apply. That way the two of you (siblings) are working together.

Sometimes in these situations, one sibling might have a chat about something with one parent and then maybe it comes up in conversation with the other parent and all of a sudden you're an intermediary. Can be an awkward spot, especially when wanting to be neutral.

That may not be an issue for you at all, but presenting a united front and strong sibling bond to them will help them face up to their responsibilities to go through mediation for the sake of reducing uncertainty/pressure on you two in any case.

jca

desbrook wrote: »

First of all your parents separated twenty years ago . I say this because while it was a de facto not a legal separation in some ways it was more of a total split as they appear to have led very separate financial lives ever since .

I'm filling in some blanks but I'm assuming that your dad didn't pay any child or seek any spousal maintenance and didn't go to court to formalise his access arrangements with you guys . He essentially moved out and resumed a single life albeit a frugal one . I'm not saying he didn't see you guys or pay for anything - I'm just saying he never formalised anything .

Your mother resumed a single life too but as a single parent. She maintained the family home and reared her children . Its easy to say she had a good job etc but good jobs need to be "kept" by hard work and that's not easy while maintaining children alone .

As you have probably guessed my opinion is your dad is entitled to a small share of the value of the house if any . Even if he paid 20% of the mortgage overall he isn't entitled to 20% of its current value . He didn't maintain it for the last twenty years when it's value was increasing simple as . Sorry to be blunt but he's like a guy who wasn't putting his money into the work lottery syndicate looking for a share of the winning when the jackpot is hit .

That's MY opinion but most importantly I think you should stay out of it totally . By all means help him with finding a decent place to live etc but don't get involved in the "battle" by expressing an opinion . If you do ...even a little you will seen to be taking sides . So far it appears that you have a decent enough relationship with both parents keep it that way .

Very unhelpful post. You obviously didn't read the first post properly. The op is looking for proper constructive help here not people's opinions.

username123

desbrook wrote: »

I'm filling in some blanks but I'm assuming that your dad didn't pay any child or seek any spousal maintenance and didn't go to court to formalise his access arrangements with you guys . He essentially moved out and resumed a single life albeit a frugal one . I'm not saying he didn't see you guys or pay for anything - I'm just saying he never formalised anything .

The father only just moved out according to the OP. The parents have lived as man and wife in the family home up to now.

OP - although your mother feels that she has been paying the mortgage all these years therefore your father should get nothing, she is probably wrong. They lived together as man and wife in the family home. His financial status during this time is largely irrelevant if he can prove that he did things like maintain the property, raise his children, cooked, did housework etc... Contributions to a marriage are not only financial and any judge would weigh up the financial AND other considerations.

Also, the family home is protected under law and one name cannot just be removed without involving solicitors and having agreement on all sides. This was actually to prevent situations where one spouse was the higher earner claiming that because they earned the money they owned the asset. The dont. Its the family home, a shared asset.

The legal costs dont have to be mad if agreement through mediation can be reached, but if your mother is taking the position that the house is hers and thats it then mediation might not be too helpful and they may need to go down the legal route.

desbrook

jca wrote: »

Very unhelpful post. You obviously didn't read the first post properly. The op is looking for proper constructive help here not people's opinions.

I can only apologise esp to the OP as yes , I didn't read the post properly and got completely the wrong end of the stick . I have deleted my post .The father has every right to a share of the home . Hopefully mediation will prove successful but it's worth applying for legal aid immediately as there is a long waiting list I understand .

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/legal_aid_and_advice/civil_legal_advice_and_legal_aid.html

jca

Yellow diamond wrote: »

I was looking for an outsiders opinion on my current family situation, which is just one big mess!

My dad has recently decided to end his marriage as he just had enough of living with my mother....long story short, they should have parted ways twenty years ago! I won't go into the details but I can understand why my dad decided to leave and he is much happier since he did.

The problem is he walked out of the family home with only the clothes on his back and my mother wants to have his name taken off the deeds. just a bit of background... He has been receiving invalidity for over twenty years and this has been his only income as he was unable to work. My mother was in a very good job which she recently retired from and they are mortgage free. My mother feels that because dad walked out that she has been the one paying the mortgage all the years he should get nothing. My dad is in his 60's and not in the best of health. I have sourced him
Some cheap temporary accommodation for three months but he needs to sort out a plan going forward. Neither of them want to go down legal route which I feel leaves us all in limbo and my dad essentially homeless! His health and safety is my main concern. Sorry for the long winded story, my head is wrecked from all this and I have a new baby myself. I would appreciate if anyone had some advice...I know my dad is entitled to half the house but I am not sure he could afford all the legal costs etc...TIA

Unfortunately if your Mother is taking the high moral ground and claiming everything is hers because she paid for it your Father is going to have to man up a bit and see a solicitor. I can't see mediation working, it would be ideal if it did but it sounds like your Mother needs someone to explain to her that your Father has rights too.

irish gent

Yes and sad as it my seem but your mother will lose in court he owns half because hes married believe it . The judge will tell you mam to pay him off or sell the house she has not a leg to stand on.. He should move back into the house very quickly. tell your Dad to call AMEN.IE for Advise ...

Stheno

irish gent wrote: »

Yes and sad as it my seem but your mother will lose in court he owns half because hes married believe it . The judge will tell you mam to pay him off or sell the house she has not a leg to stand on.. He should move back into the house very quickly. tell your Dad to call AMEN.IE for Advise ...

In terms of this post he does not have to move back into the house to retain his right to it.

I'm female and moved out of our family home when my marriage broke up. It so happened that I was the higher earner, and ended up paying maintenance etc to my former husband but despite my moving out, still have rights in terms of the house.

@OP your father either has to start mediation if your mother will go, or start legal proceedings, on invalidity pension he should be entitled to legal aid to take care of the costs.

Your mother is going to have to accept that she has to provide somewhat for him

Yellow diamond

Thanks everyone for the advice, I just wanted to know whether my dad would end up with nothing as this is stressing me out! I would like to add that my dad worked for twenty years before he was made redundant, he suffered with his health and has had multiple surgeries over the years....i just wanted to make that clear as I don't want to portray him as a man who 'lived' off my mother. Also when his own mother died and her house was sold all monies relating to the sale went towards their current home, so infact my dad probably contributed more to the mortgage then my mother.

I don't want to take sides, I know it's important to maintain a good relationship with both parents, but everything isn't black and white and I just want a fair outcome for them both! The most important thing is that my dad has a roof over his head, that's all I care about now, he is in his late 60's, not in the best of health and has made this life changing decision that was not an easy thing for him to do.

I am also supporting my mother through this as she is, of course devasted and I am doing my best to lift her spirits, I just don't want her mess dad around though. It's a tough one!

Ken.

Yellow diamond wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the advice, I just wanted to know whether my dad would end up with nothing as this is stressing me out! I would like to add that my dad worked for twenty years before he was made redundant, he suffered with his health and has had multiple surgeries over the years....i just wanted to make that clear as I don't want to portray him as a man who 'lived' off my mother. Also when his own mother died and her house was sold all monies relating to the sale went towards their current home, so infact my dad probably contributed more to the mortgage then my mother.

I don't want to take sides, I know it's important to maintain a good relationship with both parents, but everything isn't black and white and I just want a fair outcome for them both! The most important thing is that my dad has a roof over his head, that's all I care about now, he is in his late 60's, not in the best of health and has made this life changing decision that was not an easy thing for him to do.

I am also supporting my mother through this as she is, of course devasted and I am doing my best to lift her spirits, I just don't want her mess dad around though. It's a tough one!

Suggest to your mother that if it ends up in a big court battle the only ones who'll have the house at the end will be their solicitors.

Yellow diamond

Thanks Ken, I know, that is the last thing I want to happen to them. it just seems her decision making is blurred by her anger towards my dad.....I had good chat with her today though and told her she needs to take a pragmatic approach. All I can do now is hope they will come to an agreement between themselves.

irish gent

Yes I understand what your saying, but if you read the post the man has somewhere to stay but not for long .. Why should he leave in the first place...so that's why he should move back in or he my be homeless for a long while..

jca

ken wrote: »

Suggest to your mother that if it ends up in a big court battle the only ones who'll have the house at the end will be their solicitors.

That's rubbish and not helpful.

desbrook

jca wrote: »

That's rubbish and not helpful.

Well I was quoted 20k plus for a judicial separation ie going to court. My ex would have faced a similar bill. This was a major factor in us coming to an agreement. While 40k is not the price of a house it's a major chunk of most . My own solicitor simply said it was better to spend it on the children and their education than " us " meaning the legal profession. That's what the poster meant

carraig2

Yellow Diamond I don't have anything helpful to add to what you should do in this situation but just want to say this. You have a baby to care about and now you have to shoulder a lot of responsibility of a disabled dad and also listen to a hurt mother but you never complained or whined about the circumstances you are in. You are trying to help them even though many people in your situation would be relying on those very people for help. No resentment from you. Respect

Yellow diamond

carraig2 wrote: »

Yellow Diamond I don't have anything helpful to add to what you should do in this situation but just want to say this. You have a baby to care about and now you have to shoulder a lot of responsibility of a disabled dad and also listen to a hurt mother but you never complained or whined about the circumstances you are in. You are trying to help them even though many people in your situation would be relying on those very people for help. No resentment from you. Respect

Thanks carraig2, believe me some days I just want to walk away from it all but at the end of the day they are my parents and i just want to see right by both of them.

Unfortunately both parents will not be able to reach an agreement without going down the legal road now.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.