ruling about lost ball

aubreym

ruling required in scratch cup:

buddy hit his second shot to a par 5 the other day & thought it went left of the green. 3 of us looking for over 4 mins in the rough & he said he's go back & play a provisional from where he hit it, around 140 m back. once he hit it, he came up to the green where we were & saw his original ball at the back of the green, completely different area from where he thought the 1st ball went.

He went over to play the original ball, but I told him that once he dropped his second ball, it was in play as he has deemed his original ball to be lost & 2nd ball cannot be a provisional.

after a brief arguement, i told him he can finish out both balls, record both scores & ask the competition secretary inside once he got a ruling. this im 100% sure is correct, but what about the issue of the 2nd ball being in play?

PARlance

As long as he didn't use the 5 mins searching and as long as he declared the second ball a provisional then his original ball, once found, is back in play.

Time spent playing the provisional is not included in the 5 mins.

(waits to be corrected )

PARlance

May be obvious but saying "I'll go back and hit another one" isn't declaring it a provisional.

It has to be stated clearly that it is a provisional ball.

fred funk }{

PARlance wrote: »

May be obvious but saying "I'll go back and hit another one" isn't declaring it a provisional.

It has to be stated clearly that it is a provisional ball.

Say you're great fun to play with.

aubreym

taking into account the 4 mins searching, walking back, hitting another & then coming up & finding original ball, it would ahve been around 10 mins

Sean_pop

You must say you are hitting a "provisional ball". By not stating you are hitting a provisional, the other ball is deemed lost or no longer in play even if you find it.

Keano

Were you in Ballybunion on Sunday by any chance?!

This happened to a group in front of us and we were not sure either.

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

Norfolk Enchants_

aubreym wrote: »

ruling required in scratch cup:

buddy hit his second shot to a par 5 the other day & thought it went left of the green. 3 of us looking for over 4 mins in the rough & he said he's go back & play a provisional from where he hit it, around 140 m back. once he hit it, he came up to the green where we were & saw his original ball at the back of the green, completely different area from where he thought the 1st ball went.

He went over to play the original ball, but I told him that once he dropped his second ball, it was in play as he has deemed his original ball to be lost & 2nd ball cannot be a provisional.

after a brief arguement, i told him he can finish out both balls, record both scores & ask the competition secretary inside once he got a ruling. this im 100% sure is correct, but what about the issue of the 2nd ball being in play?

You're correct Aubreym, his 2nd ball automatically becomes the ball in play, it's rule 27-2.

Quoted from the RANDA

Rule 27-2

a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.
(Order of play from teeing ground - see Rule 10-3)



So basically it's just tough, it's a hard pill to swallow, but for the sake of pace of play you can only play a provisional before you go forward.
Lesson learned is always play a provisional if there is a possibility the ball is lost.

aubreym

norfolk: thanks for that, clears it up. I was pretty sure that once you go forward & not play a provisional ball, then you cannot go back & play one, so ball is deemed as lost.

keano: yep, that may have been us. on the 5th hole i think, 2nd par 5. sorry for holding ye up. the other 2 were meant to have known the place having played there previously lol

Keano

Yup that was us! Who know so many boards lads were playing that day! Ah you didn't hold us up, it was always going to be a slow round. The rough was brutal!

aubreym

unreal rough. foot off the rough & you were in danger of walking over it. 6 hour round but hopefully will know where to go next time. returned my card at least. the other 2 gave up hitting provo's around the 15th :-)

denishurley

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Say you're great fun to play with.

Because he observes the rules?!

bustercherry

aubreym wrote: »

unreal rough. foot off the rough & you were in danger of walking over it. 6 hour round but hopefully will know where to go next time. returned my card at least. the other 2 gave up hitting provo's around the 15th :-)

Few mates playing in it and I went down on Sat night on beer with them. Out around 1pm and were teeing off at the 18th at 5:15pm, I watched them from the clubhouse coming up.

How the fcuk did it take you 6 hours and have you seen the slow play thread?

aubreym

6 hours may be an exageration. definetely 5 1/2 hours, but we did leave 3 groups through

PARlance

denishurley wrote: »

Because he observes the rules?!

Well I clearly had misunderstood the main ruling.... oops

Wasn't going to bother responding but I made to mistake of not declaring it a provisional before and I hopefully that'll be the last time.
It's one of the easier rules to break if you've never gotten into the habit while starting off casually.

Fred, I'm great craic

mike12

I though they changed the Provisional ball rule that you can now walk forward(not sure if you can look for the ball) it was to cover people playing new courses where it looks fine off the tee but when you get half way there you realise you are in trouble so you can go back and hit a provisional.

slave1

mike12 wrote: »

I though they changed the Provisional ball rule that you can now walk forward(not sure if you can look for the ball) it was to cover people playing new courses where it looks fine off the tee but when you get half way there you realise you are in trouble so you can go back and hit a provisional.

They did, 50yards from what I recall, they introduced it along with expanded definition of embedded ball...

slave1

Here it is...

The amendment to Decision 27-2a/1.5 has the effect of permitting a player who has just played a stroke to go forward a short distance (approximately 50 yards) to determine whether it would save time to play a provisional ball. Previously, he could not return to play a provisional once he, or his partner, had left the area of the stroke to go forward to search.

GreeBo

From what I remember once he drops the second ball its in play and the first ball is deemed lost, different from the tee where you have to hit it to be in play (putting it on the tee doesnt put it in play)

Seve OB

this happened to a playing partner in my club a little while ago, hit drive, couldn't find it so headed back to play a provisional from tee, while we continued to look. it is a blind tee shot.

we didn't find it, but when he came down after playing second ball, he found the first one... nowhere near where he thought it was!

group behind included someone well up on the rules, so he told him that if we had of found his original ball, within the 5 minutes, it would have been ok. even though he played his provisional, because of the blind tee shot, he would not have known we found it, so provisional is allowed.

key here is the 5 minute rule. the ball wasn't found within the time, so his provisional was now in play. once he headed back to tee, it really eats all those minutes up.

Seve OB

actually on saturday same hole........

partner pulls his tee shot left, then i do :rolleyes:. we both hit provisionals. i scutter mine barely 40 yards. he hits his provisional roughly where his first ball went.

i played 2nd shot of my provisional ball down to roughly where my first ball was, then straight away found the first, so picked up provisional.

he found his provisional straight away, but no sign of the first.... looked for about the 5 minutes and then said don't worry lads, played his provisional.

then he found first.... and was going to play it till i stopped him.

impression i got was he was wondering how i could hit provisional 2nd shot, but was then able to play first ball, but i pulled him up on almost doing the same.

when i explained he was grand about it. felt sorry for him cause he shot 69 and 67 won the medal!

scrubber72

stevieob wrote: »

actually on saturday same hole........

partner pulls his tee shot left, then i do :rolleyes:. we both hit provisionals. i scutter mine barely 40 yards. he hits his provisional roughly where his first ball went.

i played 2nd shot of my provisional ball down to roughly where my first ball was, then straight away found the first, so picked up provisional.

he found his provisional straight away, but no sign of the first.... looked for about the 5 minutes and then said don't worry lads, played his provisional.

then he found first.... and was going to play it till i stopped him.

impression i got was he was wondering

how i could hit provisional 2nd shot, but was then able to play first ball, but i pulled him up on almost doing the same.

when i explained he was grand about it. felt sorry for him cause he shot 69 and 67 won the medal!

Thems the breaks..

Seve OB

scrubber72 wrote: »

Thems the breaks..

yup.

i just posted another thread about the same lad, same day.... sickening for him on medal day and only a new member in the club!

John Divney

I don't how you can be good enough to shoot 69 and not really know things that could cost you simply like a drop or relief or when to play a provisional.

Although the rules do fade in the mind and can get muddled , if I could shoot those scores I 'd be bullet proof on not doing myself over.

He could have been dq'd for wrong ball had you not said anything

Seve OB

John Divney wrote: »

I don't how you can be good enough to shoot 69 and not really know things that could cost you simply like a drop or relief or when to play a provisional.

Although the rules do fade in the mind and can get muddled , if I could shoot those scores I 'd be bullet proof on not doing myself over.

He could have been dq'd for wrong ball had you not said anything

he is a new member, just played few games a year with his mates till now, so this is his first club. plays off 10 all the same

Wombatman

stevieob wrote: »

key here is the 5 minute rule. the ball wasn't found within the time, so his provisional was now in play. once he headed back to tee, it really eats all those minutes up.

What about this bit?

...and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

Seve OB

Wombatman wrote: »

What about this bit?

point was, we might have actually found the ball before he played the "provisional", but he wouldn't have known as the shot was blind and we couldn't see him to notify him

John Divney

stevieob wrote: »

he is a new member, just played few games a year with his mates till now, so this is his first club. plays off 10 all the same

Lol and he rocks up on medal and shoots almost the winning score?

Guys a natural under pressure.