Horizon Wi-Free (UPC) - An Inconvenient Truth

Gadgetman496

It should have been so obvious? But one could be forgiven for misinterpreting exactly how UPC’s Horizon Wi-Free works and what exactly their Opt In and Opt Out options mean.

In order for UPC’s Wi-Free system to be both reliable and successful, UPC need to have all or at least most of their customers estimated 250,000 routers nationwide on-board. So, how are they going to achieve this? Relying on the goodwill of their customers to participate is just not going to work, it could never work if the control to Opt in and out was left in the hands of each individual user, it would just be too hit and miss and could or would lead to a totally unreliable service. Hmm! So how are they going to combat that potential disaster from occurring? They are going to enable every user with capable routers automatically as detailed in the opening lines of their support documentation HERE:. Which says?

All eligible UPC modems are automatically enabled for the service, unless you choose to opt out beforehand

Beforehand; what exactly does that mean? If my interpretation of this is correct? I think it is very disingenuous of UPC. They make it look like you have the option to Opt In and Opt out, right? And theoretically you have, but that’s you, you the person, what about your router that has been automatically enabled without you asking for it to be made available to the general mass of other UPC users who decide to Opt In?

To answer that question you need to look at what exactly UPC mean when they use the terms Opt In and Opt out? Again, one could be forgiven for interpreting that to mean I want to participate in the new service or I do not want to participate. My interpretation of this is that we are dealing with two entirely different entities here altogether, one being the customer\user & the other being the customers\users router. I believe this to mean the following. The Opt in or Opt out option refers to the individual customer\user but not their router. In other words, if you Opt in you get to use the system when you are out and about, away from your own network. If you Opt out you do not get to use the system at all but your router continues to be available to everyone else who has opted in.

So how do both you and your router really opt out? Or can you? Of course you can, or at least UPC claim you can HERE: Unfortunately that is not as straight forward as it might seem either, at least not in my case as detailed HERE:

I wonder too? How much the introduction of their new modem\routers with the ability to bridge removed was deliberate in the knowledge that Horizon Wi-Free was due to be released?

UPC should have been more open and upfront with the way they phrased things with regard to this system, this system they advertise as being free of charge, yes, it’s free, but it’s not really UPC who are giving anyone anything for free, it is the paying customers who have had their infrastructure made available to others that are really providing the service.

Yes I know too that UPC provide and continue to hold ownership of the equipment they provide as part of their Broadband service, but it is you the customer that is paying for it.


Note:

I posted this in the hope that UPC would clarify if my interpretation above is correct or not.

I have to say too, that in general, the service I' have received from UPC to date has been excellent & to that end I have no complaints whatsoever.

If I have miss-understood the workings of the system & its implications for others, please accept my apologies in advance.

ED E

Bridged, wifi off, no need to opt out for me

Very good post though, seems to be very little clarity around the whole thing.

Gadgetman496

ED E wrote: »

Bridged, wifi off, no need to opt out for me

Is it though? Is your WiFi really off

With all the firmware related shenanigans that is UPC firmware, is anything you set really set? They have removed most of the basic options one should & would expect to have & with all those reports of secret hidden pages, god knows what's really going on in the background.

This was what my "My UPC" account & router displayed after I opted out and after UPC told me I was no longer broadcasting.

ED E

I checked yesterday, nothing broadcasting.

Dont even have "HotSpot".

Idioteque

Good post, when I read the letter yesterday I couldn't believe the cheek of what they were doing. I logged straight into my online account and chose to 'opt-out'. I have the same screen as you with the "Horizon wi-fi is currently disabled"...but when I opted out it did have a pop up saying something along the lines of it would take 5 working days for it to take effect.
It could be that the MyUPC immediatly shows it as disabled when you opt out even though it takes a few day. I'd recommend checking your router again later in the week to see if it's still broadcasting the 2nd wi-fi.

Gadgetman496

Idioteque wrote: »

Good post, when I read the letter yesterday I couldn't believe the cheek of what they were doing. I logged straight into my online account and chose to 'opt-out'. I have the same screen as you with the "Horizon wi-fi is currently disabled"...but when I opted out it did have a pop up saying something along the lines of it would take 5 working days for it to take effect.
It could be that the MyUPC immediatly shows it as disabled when you opt out even though it takes a few day. I'd recommend checking your router again later in the week to see if it's still broadcasting the 2nd wi-fi.

There bumf states it takes 72 hours to propagate any change and that time had well passed when my screen shots were taken. I had to get on to them & even at that it took time for them to show it as gone from my router, that is if it is actually gone. I might sound paranoid but I need convincing at this stage that the user does in fact have any control over their connected status.

Funnily enough, they only refer to the 72 hours lark in the Opt out section but there's no mention of it in their Opt in section, probably because you are already gone live without knowing it! The 72 hour opt out is most likely a lame attempt on UPC's part to put users off disabling it, or thinking they have disabled it.

Please allow up to 72 hours for your opt-out request to be processed. See Here:

I could never see any Horizon Wi-Free network until I enabled it and now it's there all the time even after I disabled it, so I'm convinced my router is still broadcasting regardless of what my "MyUpc" account is saying.

I keep coming back to my comment in the original post. If users keep opting out the system will fall down, are UPC really going to allow that to happen?

Idioteque

Ok fair enough, sounds like it's all a bit suspect!...the whole thing stinks. Sad thing is, the majority of people won't know what the letter actually means and so not bother opting out.

Gadgetman496

Idioteque wrote: »

Ok fair enough, sounds like it's all a bit suspect!...the whole thing stinks. Sad thing is, the majority of people won't know what the letter actually means and so not bother opting out.

True, and that is why UPC have chosen to word things in a slightly disingenuous way.

The letter they sent out should really have been something like this.....





-

Dave..M

Welcome to the party!

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057132540/1/#post88637868

Nonoperational

If this doesn't impact with performance what's the issue?

Griffinx

I opted out on myupc over a week ago and still I can't disable WiFi on the horizon router. It says cannot disable WiFi while you use WiFi roaming optin

bk

From what I have heard, they do mean opt out, to mean that you router will no longer transmit the UPC Free wifi network as well.

However they seem to be having some difficulty and bugs with the opt out and their engineers are currently working on a solution for it.

I doubt they ever meant for the opt out not to also disable the wifi. They know they would get in serious trouble with the EU regulators if they didn't make this option available.

Gadgetman496

Nonoperational wrote: »

If this doesn't impact with performance what's the issue?

If you are content with the fact you were opted into a system without your prior consent and the option to opt out appears to be not working? then happy days for you.

All the mobile operators have to pay for the use of masts in order to improve their signal coverage. UPC in their wisdom have decided to use all their paying customers routers, without their prior consent in order to saturate and copper-fasten their dominance. Businesses exist to make a profit and nothing else. They also add new services to increase both their customer base and profit margins and nothing else. If you believe that any large company is doing this in order that their customers can benefit? you are not living in the real world.

Nonoperational

gadgetman496 wrote: »

If you are content with the fact you were opted into a system without your prior consent and the option to opt out appears to be not working? then happy days for you.

All the mobile operators have to pay for the use of masts in order to improve their signal coverage. UPC in their wisdom have decided to use all their paying customers routers, without their prior consent in order to saturate and copper-fasten their dominance. Businesses exist to make a profit and nothing else. They also add new services to increase both their customer base and profit margins and nothing else. If you believe that any large company is doing this in order that their customers can benefit? you are not living in the real world.

:pac: The real world is a scary place man.

Praetorian

I can understand the negativity from some UPC customers and if I was a UPC customer I certainly would opt out.

However, the service would not have worked well if they had required people to opt in. Most people just wouldn't have been bothered.

steveone

Praetorian wrote: »

I can understand the negativity from some UPC customers and if I was a UPC customer I certainly would opt out.

However, the service would not have worked well if they had required people to opt in. Most people just wouldn't have been bothered.

Its upc all over- if they stopped talking about customer service and concentrated on delivering their products it would be better for us and them.

cregganna

Nonoperational wrote: »

If this doesn't impact with performance what's the issue?

Your connection has a limited capacity. If someone else uses your router's free WiFi channel then they will be using some of your line's capacity. If they start streaming or downloading tons of data it could impact your service.

UK BT have been doing this for ages and now provide a subscription service to allow non BT line owners to use the hot spots of other consumer's routers. It relies on the service being enabled by default and the general public not realising it's there.

Gadgetman496

All the users who agree to this are theoretically paying the electricity charges associated with UPC's nationwide Hot Spot service too!

The cost of each individuals routers usage might not be that much? but when you multiply it by 250,000 routers nationwide over a full year, it's some saving on electricity charges for UPC......

bk

cregganna wrote: »

Your connection has a limited capacity. If someone else uses your router's free WiFi channel then they will be using some of your line's capacity. If they start streaming or downloading tons of data it could impact your service.

Not really, UPC's cable network is massively over provisioned, the WiFree connection is pretty slow just 2 to 3mb/s. Out of 200mb/s (or more with over provisioning) that is nothing.

All the users who agree to this are theoretically paying the electricity charges associated with UPC's nationwide Hot Spot service too!

Your router is on and using electricity already so this is pretty irrelevant.

I think this is a great use of resources. I've already used the Wi-Free connection a few times in the past two weeks around Dublin city. It is a little slow (slower then my typical 3G connection!) but then it isn't using my 3G data cap when out and about, so that is very good news.

Gadgetman496

bk wrote: »

Your router is on and using electricity already so this is pretty irrelevant.

But it's not irrelevant bk. When you watch your TV do you connect multiple extension leads to the power source to provide power to all your neighbours so they can watch their TV without paying for the lecky? Do the mobile companies connect their masts\antennas to customers houses? Would you let them?... I doubt it. Do UPC allow you to tap your neighbour into your TV service? no they don't.

It would have been much more appropriate for UPC to be more upfront about the service & offer some sort of incentive such as a subscription discount (however small) for those who left Wi-Free enabled. But no, instead they slily enabled all their customers and slily worded their bumf to mask the fact by putting the Opt in Opt out garbage in your face, a lot of users understood initially that by doing nothing they were Opted out, but we know now that was never the case. An Opt Out system that wasn't working correctly too!

ED E

gadgetman496 wrote: »

But it's not irrelevant bk.

It is. You router draws about 6 or 7W no matter what. Nobody in the house or 60 people on your wifi, same power draw. Comparing that to providing power to your neighbours tv is farcical. You dont understand how this works.

There's no saving for them, they arent stealing from you, they're just "pooling" access so that their customer base can share the network. Remember, the modem isnt yours, the cable into the house isnt yours, the DOCSIS node isnt yours. Its all UPCs network.

I agree the opt out should work, but other than that there is nothing wrong with the system.

Gadgetman496

ED E wrote: »

It is. You router draws about 6 or 7W no matter what. Nobody in the house or 60 people on your wifi, same power draw. Comparing that to providing power to your neighbours tv is farcical. You dont understand how this works.

There's no saving for them, they arent stealing from you, they're just "pooling" access so that their customer base can share the network. Remember, the modem isnt yours, the cable into the house isnt yours, the DOCSIS node isnt yours. Its all UPCs network.

I agree the opt out should work, but other than that there is nothing wrong with the system.

Seriously ED E, I fully understand how the system works and fully understand the light draw associated with the use of a router, I also agree my comparisons are way over the top too but, It's the principle of the way they introduced the system & the way they allowed the interpretation of it to be misinterpreted initially that annoyed me. I'm fully aware too that UPC remain the owners of any equipment they supply, but the end user is the original owner of the monies used to pay for the subscription to avail of the service supplied through that rented equipment and without each individual user UPC Wi-Free could not exist.

It also annoys me that their firmware on existing supplied routers was doctored to purposely remove the ability to bridge solely to enhance their introduction of Wi-Free.

From my own point of view? I decided not to participate & don't require the ability to have access to UPC Wi-Free while out and about. Others may wish to avail of the service and good luck to them too. The vast majority of average home owners don't even know what's going on & are unaware that they are actively participating, but of course that was probably the only way UPC could have had any chance of achieving a half decent coverage for this system.

Nemeses

The only thing that annoys me about this is, they can enable a second independent WIFI network on the Horizon box but they won't enable 5Ghz or true bridge mode on it... let alone other functionality of a normal router..

Cuddlesworth

gadgetman496 wrote: »

It also annoys me that their firmware on existing supplied routers was doctored to purposely remove the ability to bridge solely to enhance their introduction of Wi-Free.

I doubt that. I'd say that decision was based more on a unified support platform. Its unfortunate that they also made the decision to provide bargain basement hardware in combination.

GekkePrutser

Sorry to drag up this old thread but it seems to be the best place after doing a search here.

I wonder where the option is to opt-out?

I noticed on my router (EPC2425) it is now broadcasting a hidden SSID with 14 Characters in length as well as the normal UPCxxxxxx one. Hoping that opting out will clear it from there. It's a bit strange because I see my neighbours broadcasting "Horizon Wi-Free" (which is 15 characters) and not hidden, but I do have an ancient modem so it might handle things differently. I'm still assuming it has to do with this Wi-Free business because it didn't do it before.

But when I log in to My UPC I see both "Broadband 30 Mb" and "Horizon Wi-Free" and when I click on the Wi-Free one I only have the option to set a password for it (which I don't want because I want to opt out). But no button to opt out or anything..

I wish I could just have a simple modem and provide my own wifi access point so I could control it properly. I tried setting a real password (the default 8-character all uppercase is way too easy to crack) but they seem to reset the whole modem to factory default every few weeks.

Cushie Butterfield

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Sorry to drag up this old thread but it seems to be the best place after doing a search here.

I wonder where the option is to opt-out?

I noticed on my router (EPC2425) it is now broadcasting a hidden SSID with 14 Characters in length as well as the normal UPCxxxxxx one. Hoping that opting out will clear it from there. It's a bit strange because I see my neighbours broadcasting "Horizon Wi-Free" (which is 15 characters) and not hidden, but I do have an ancient modem so it might handle things differently. I'm still assuming it has to do with this Wi-Free business because it didn't do it before.

But when I log in to My UPC I see both "Broadband 30 Mb" and "Horizon Wi-Free" and when I click on the Wi-Free one I only have the option to set a password for it (which I don't want because I want to opt out). But no button to opt out or anything..

I wish I could just have a simple modem and provide my own wifi access point so I could control it properly. I tried setting a real password (the default 8-character all uppercase is way too easy to crack) but they seem to reset the whole modem to factory default every few weeks.

I'm open to correction on this but I think that in order to opt out you have to first set a WiFree password & agree to T&Cs & it's only after that has taken effect that you get the option to opt out again.