Would you report a homophobic crime?

Lmklad

Hey all,

If you were the victim of or witnessed a homophobic crime would you report it to Gardai?

(If not, why not?)

baby and crumble

Of course I would. Why wouldn't I? If someone robs my phone it's a crime, if someone punches me it's a crime, why treat a homophobic crime any differently?

uck51js9zml2yt

Define a homophobic crime

Sir Arthur Daley

What is the difference between a regular crime and a homophobic crime?

Ten of Swords

Depends on the circumstances and the crime I suppose but if I was the victim then no I probably wouldn't. As I said it depends on the severity but lets be honest most minor and petty crime goes unpunished.

If I witnessed a crime I'd ask the victim how they want to proceed and respect their wishes.

Irish Aris

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Depends on the circumstances and the crime I suppose but if I was the victim then no I probably wouldn't. As I said it depends on the severity but lets be honest most minor and petty crime goes unpunished.

If I witnessed a crime I'd ask the victim how they want to proceed and respect their wishes.

I think even if you know that nothing will come out of it, you should still report it.
I am 100% with you on your comment about witnessing a crime: it's primarily what the victim wants.

Lmklad

Cohen Puny Scale wrote: »

Define a homophobic crime

The simplest explanation would be:

A crime committed specifically because of a person sexual orientation, LGBTQ etc.

Annasopra

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

What is the difference between a regular crime and a homophobic crime?

A person is targeted because of their sexual orientation or gender identity

catallus

By their very nature such crimes tend to be violent, I think.

A lot of assaults go unreported by any member of the public; for every one reported it could be taken that there are 9 unreported; there are a thousand reasons a person wouldn't report a crime and I can imagine that a gay person might not wish to report a homophobic crime against them for lots of reasons.

What's needed is a culture change; to make the victims of such crime realise that they should report, even if it seems difficult and even if they think nothing will come of it (they're probably right about the latter, given our justice system), but the only way to make such crime noticed more is to report it more.

Annasopra

catallus wrote: »

By their very nature such crimes tend to be violent, I think.
.

I wouldnt necessarily make that assumption.

catallus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I wouldnt necessarily make that assumption.

Your syntomy is intriguing. :P Would you care to elaborate?

Physical or psychological violence would be the hallmark of homophobic crime, I would have thought.

Anyway, my point about the need to get the victims to speak out stands.

Annasopra

catallus wrote: »

Your syntomy is intriguing. :P Would you care to elaborate?

Physical or psychological violence would be the hallmark of homophobic crime, I would have thought.

Anyway, my point about the need to get the victims to speak out stands.

I presumed you meant physical violence. I wouldnt necessarily say that homophobic graffiti or verbal abuse is physically violent.

catallus

Graffiti is violent criminal damage; verbal abuse is violence by any definition; I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is, haha.

Anyway, we all know there's a big problem with under-reporting, especially with homophobic stuff; afaik, it is treated seriously by Gardai, perhaps less so by the courts.

Aard

I can't think of any "homophobic" crime that isn't already a crime anyway.


If somebody gets assaulted because they're gay, how is it any less report-worthy than just "regular" assault?

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

I can't think of any "homophobic" crime that isn't already a crime anyway.


If somebody gets assaulted because they're gay, how is it any less report-worthy than just "regular" assault?

There are lots of reasons. Here are some of them. Some are a lot less applicable now.

1 Perception that there will be a homophobic reaction from gardai
2 Perceptiob that gardai may not take issue seriously
3 Person afraid that reporting the issue may inadvertently out them
4 Previous bad experience with gardai acting homophobically or not taking homophobia seriously

catallus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There are lots of reasons. Here are some of them. Some are a lot less applicable now.

1 Perception that there will be a homophobic reaction from gardai
2 Perceptiob that gardai may not take issue seriously
3 Person afraid that reporting the issue may inadvertently out them
4 Previous bad experience with gardai acting homophobically or not taking homophobia seriously

Wow.

While projecting the reasons for refusing to report such crime onto the police is understandable if one has had a bad experience with a particular guard, this type of generalised black-balling of the guards is non-sensical and self defeating, not very helpful to those who are victims of crime and is just overall lazy thinking.

My own observation, when a friend of mine went to report a homophobic assault to the guards, was that it was handled with discretion and seriousness. Nothing came of it due to other factors but seriously, if we are going to affect any sort of change in thinking then this generalised blaming of the cops has to be stopped; the best way to do this is that if something like this happens to you then go and report it, and if you do meet a meathead cop who you think isn't taking you seriously then report the guard too.

Lmklad

Thanks for commenting lads. Keep them coming.

catallus

Lmklad wrote: »

Thanks for commenting lads. Keep them coming.

Well what's your own thinking on it?

Aard

Well if there's a fear that the gardaí might not take the reporter seriously, then why not just report the crime as usual and leave the gay element out of it?

catallus

Aard wrote: »

Well if there's a fear that the gardaí might not take the reporter seriously, then why not just report the crime as usual and leave the gay element out of it?

Because the gay element is the defining element of the crime.

Aard

It shouldn't matter *why* a crime was committed, but simply *that* a crime was committed.

catallus

Aard wrote: »

It shouldn't matter *why* a crime was committed, but simply *that* a crime was committed.

That's all very well, Aard, but there are social consequences for a lot of people who might decide to report a crime caused by hatred against them due to their sexuality, not least the fact that it can be reported in the papers.

L1011

Yes; but if it happened in the back-arse of nowhere I'd probably just report it as whatever physical happened rather than giving details of any homophobic abuse; mainly because I can't imagine the standard late middle aged, single Garda in a station actually understanding that element of it whereas they will understandard an assault/vandalism/etc.

baby and crumble

MYOB wrote: »

Yes; but if it happened in the back-arse of nowhere I'd probably just report it as whatever physical happened rather than giving details of any homophobic abuse; mainly because I can't imagine the standard late middle aged, single Garda in a station actually understanding that element of it whereas they will understandard an assault/vandalism/etc.

I think you're doing the Gardai a big disservice there. They're not idiots who can't comprehend the nuances of a delicate crime.

Lmklad

catallus wrote: »

Well what's your own thinking on it?

Ireland has a rediculasly low reporting of homophobic crime. When a crime is reported to Gardai the cause or reason of the crime is also recorded, this classifies the crime type, ie monitory gain. Garda management tend to use statistics to decide deployment so if a homophobic assault is reported as a "regular" assault it won't ever be recognised for what it actually was. If you get what I mean.

bodice ripper

I would always report violent crime. Actually violent. Psychological or verbal "violence" would not cut it.

Ten of Swords

UK charity LGF launched an app yesterday to make it easier to record instances of hate crimes and to offer the victim support if they need help reporting it to the police. Seems like a fantastic idea.

http://www.lgf.org.uk/news-articles/the-lgf-launches-hate-crime-reporting-web-app/

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

It shouldn't matter *why* a crime was committed, but simply *that* a crime was committed.

But it does matter why because the victim is targeted specifically because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Aard

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But it does matter why because the victim is targeted specifically because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

That makes no sense to me tbh. Why does it matter? Is it for statistics, or would it impact on sentencing? A crime is a crime surely.

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

That makes no sense to me tbh. Why does it matter? Is it for statistics, or would it impact on sentencing? A crime is a crime surely.

Both; collecting statistics and It could possibly impact on sentencing depending on the judge but the hate crime legislation is very weak in Ireland.

A crime is a crime but the point is the majority of people are not potential targets of homophobic hate crime because they are heterosexual or perceived to be heterosexual.

Aard

Fair enough for statistics.


As for the term "homophobic crime", I'm still not convinced it really means anything above and beyond "crime". It's just a crime whose victim is gay.

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

Fair enough for statistics.


As for the term "homophobic crime", I'm still not convinced it really means anything above and beyond "crime". It's just a crime whose victim is gay.

No not really. The point is the victim is a target specifically because they are gay or perceived to be gay. The perpetrator has a homophobic motive. Everyone is not at equal risk of such crimes.

Every crime against a gay person is not a homophobic hate crime!

Aard

Yes I understand that, but why does it matter what the motivation of the crime is? I still don't see a reason to label this as "homophobic" crime.

baby and crumble

Aard wrote: »

Yes I understand that, but why does it matter what the motivation of the crime is? I still don't see a reason to label this as "homophobic" crime.

Because when it comes to helping the public understand that there are issues around public acceptance of homosexuality, crime stats help. If the lgbt community speaks about homophobia in society, and gay people being targeting for certain types because they are gay, then that is concrete evidence.

Knowing the types of crimes committed helps the Gardai create programs like the lgbt officers, etc. They can run awareness campaigns on foot of the knowledge.

And if there is a sudden surge in a type of crime in a certain area it's a mater of public safety to know about it. I would want to know if there was a person or group targeting gay people in my area. Because I would be a target.

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

Yes I understand that, but why does it matter what the motivation of the crime is? I still don't see a reason to label this as "homophobic" crime.

Because the motive points to the fact that lgbt people can often live in fear just because of a certain characteristic of how they are born.

If lgbt people are to be truly equal in society then there would be homophobic or transphobic hate crime. That is not possible but many other things are possible; educating lgbt people on safety, educating the general public on various lgbt issues, educating police forces to be sensitive to and aware of lgbt issues, making homophobic and transphobic hate crime more publicly unacceptable.

Pocoyo

Lmklad wrote: »

Hey all,

If you were the victim of or witnessed a homophobic crime would you report it to Gardai?

(If not, why not?)

No id assist the perpetrator...Is that what you want to hear?. :rolleyes:

A crimes a crime and a victim is a victim,Id report it regardless of gender/race or sex.

Annasopra

Pocoyo wrote: »

No id assist the perpetrator...Is that what you want to hear?. :rolleyes:

A crimes a crime and a victim is a victim,Id report it regardless of gender/race or sex.

A victim is not just a victim though.
A victim of a homophobic or transphobic crime is specifically targeted because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Pocoyo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A victim is not just a victim though.
A victim of a homophobic or transphobic crime is specifically targeted because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

In my eyes a victim is a victim,I genuinely think its a silly question,if some one is the kind of person that reports crime,I doubt sexual orientation is going to stop them from doing so.

Annasopra

Pocoyo wrote: »

In my eyes a victim is a victim,I genuinely think its a silly question,if some one is the kind of person that reports crime,I doubt sexual orientation is going to stop them from doing so.

Are you denying that lgbt people are specifically targeted?

Pocoyo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Are you denying that lgbt people are specifically targeted?

I have been targeted for supporting a sports team and for being a man,Every group are open to being targeted. Ah victim is a victim end of.

Annasopra

Pocoyo wrote: »

I have been targeted for supporting a sports team and for being a man,Every group are open to being targeted. Ah victim is a victim end of.

:rolleyes:

Pocoyo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:eek: :rolleyes:

Annasopra

Pocoyo wrote: »

:eek: :rolleyes:

Your location says a lot

Pocoyo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Your location says a lot

That has nothing to do with the fact that stephen fry is gay.

Ambersky

Homophobic crimes can have their origins in a sense of entitlement to bully LGBT people in schools.
At the beginning of this year after a lot of work on the part of Glen and other LGBT groups, to get LGBT Bullying actually addressed in anti bullying policies, the Department of Education launched an action plan on bullying. Included as part of this plan was the commitment to

Provide Department of Education and Skills support for the Stand Up! Awareness Week Against Homophobic Bullying organised by BeLonG To Youth Services;

http://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2013-Press-Releases/PR-%202013-01-29.html
www.education.ie#sthash.HYHnasar.dpuf

Now schools have had anti bullying plans before but sometimes LGBT bullying wasnt actually mentioned let alone addressed or worked on.
A lot of work has been needed to get the subject of bullying in general understood, named and explained, for people to get what it is, how it happens and what effect it has. There have been a lot of excuses and denial about bullying in general people didnt want to believe it happened as much as it did or that their sons or daughters could do it or that cyber bullying was much of an issue as no bones were broken. There has been even more denial around homophobic bullying.
When homophobic bullying is not actually named there is a kind of uncertaintly or ambiguity about where the LGBT person stands as victim. I have heard homophobic bullying called in schools by adults and by teachers and these are actual quotes, "just lads normal sense of humour and jocularity around sexuality", "just a normal part of the rough and tumble of boys growing up", " just part of life's lessons on how you cant be too open about that kind of thing", "his/her own fault", "no big deal", "what you can expect in society and school is no different".
Add to this the fact that LGBT teachers in religious run schools are in an ambiguous position because of section 37.1 whereby religious run organisation have an exemption from the employment equality legislation and this makes it difficult for a gay teacher to stand up for gay pupils in case they themselves are targeted.
We need to understand and to name all the different kinds of bullying and violence we come across. When people make excuses or denials they usually say "ok bullying or violence is wrong but not this kind or whats happening here is not that because....". Its for those people we need to name the kinds of bullying and violence so that we can say we are protection those people too and even under this circumstance and even though you believe what you do. We name so we can protect, not from those who understood in the first place that violence or bullying is wrong in any circumstance but so that we can protect from those who believe certain people in certain circumstances deserve bullying or violence.

Annasopra

Ambersky wrote: »

We need to understand and to name all the different kinds of bullying and violence we come across. When people make excuses or denials they usually say "ok bullying or violence is wrong but not this kind or whats happening here is not that because....". Its for those people we need to name the kinds of bullying and violence so that we can say we are protection those people too and even under this circumstance and even though you believe what you do. We name so we can protect not from those who understood in the first place but so that we can protect from those who believe certain people in certain circumstances deserve bullying or violence.

I'm not quite sure about this. I agree with it but then are we take seriously an argument that a previous poster is making that he has been targeted as a football supporter?

Ten of Swords

Guys rather than risk dragging this off topic can we move past the definitions for a moment? Whether you consider a homophobic element relevant or not can we focus on the fact that it is relevant to the gardai so the question stands, would you report a crime and if you believe it was motivated by sexuality would you include that in your report or not?

Ambersky

Short answer Yes I would report and include it.

Lmklad

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A victim is not just a victim though.
A victim of a homophobic or transphobic crime is specifically targeted because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Yes and no. A victim is a victim but the crimes can be different ranging from public order, assault to prohibition of incitement to hatred. Each crime/offence has a specific legal requirement that must be met before a person is chargeable under it and each has a different sanction available.

baby and crumble

If someone punched me in the face walking down O'Connell St., I'd report it as assault.

If someone punched me in the face walking down O'Connell St, and shouted "F*cking dyke!" while doing it, I'd report it as assault with a homophobic element. It's not rocket science. When you're asked about details and to give a statement to the Gardai, you should include all the details. But I don't assume anyone who commits a crime with me as the victim is committing a homophobic crime simply because I'm gay. A guy mugged me a few years ago and stole my phone- it wasn't a homophobic crime, there was no element of homphobia to it.

I mean I can understand if someone is in a small town, and someone targets them because they're gay, they may not want to have it all over Gardai reports that may come up in court that the crime was homophobic in nature. I get that. But where you can, I think you should.

I also get that I'm somewhat of a stickler for rules, and so if I'm a victim of a crime, no matter how small, I WILL report it. Even if nothing comes of it. That's just the kind of person I am, really.