Jail for giving someone a cold sore - fuk sake

cant touchthis

In the UK, You Can Be Jailed for Giving Your Girlfriend Herpes

I can't see many people bettering David Golding's break-up story. After his then-girlfriend found out that he’d given her herpes, she dumped him, reported him to the police, and watched as he was jailed for 14 months for passing on the STI. The reason the sentencing was so severe is because Golding was charged with (and pled guilty to) grievous bodily harm (GBH), which usually means stabbing or beating the **** out of someone—not passing along a virus that roughly 25 percent of the UK’s sexually active population already has.

Unsurprisingly, sexual-health organizations weren’t very happy about the verdict, claiming it contributed to the wrongful stigmatization of what is really a pretty “trivial” condition. Those same organizations were just as outraged last week when the Court of Appeal rejected Golding’s appeal against his conviction. Lord Justice Treacy, sitting next to two other judges, said that even though Golding had acted “recklessly rather than deliberately” in giving his ex the virus, his original conviction was appropriate (though he did reduce his sentence to three months).

By the age of 25, seven out of ten people carry this virus, statistically. By the age of 35, it would be very hard to find a woman who does not have this virus. If you've had seven partners, statistically we would expect you to have simplex herpes type 2 [which produces most genital herpes]. The reason you don’t think you have it is that only one person in five gets it badly enough to be diagnosed. So [going by the Golding logic] this is basically going to put a fifth of the population in court.

Crazy.

Does the judge's decision to reject Golding's appeal pose a threat to others in the future who might find themselves in a similar case?
Of course. It's a disaster for common sense. The sexual-health doctors are all with us on that. We're conferring with all the top sexual-health doctors from an organization called BASHH [British Association for Sexual Health and HIV]; they're all horrified at the ridiculousness of basically taking someone to court for passing on a cold sore.
[Genital herpes] is incredibly common. It's almost impossible to prove who you got it from; anyone with a cold sore on their face doing oral sex could give it to a partner on the genitals. So, basically, they're saying that anyone with a cold sore on their face could end up in the dock.

How does this make it to court and why is he pleading guilty to something he doesn't even know for sure he did.

Ah worse it's getting.

El Weirdo

Slightly misleading thread title there...

fullaljackeen

A punch in the face is trivial. Giving someone a horrible STD on purpose. Not trivial.

RobbingBandit

Cold sore this is not, jebus OP.

Ihatecuddles

Coldsores are worse than AIDS. Fact.

Stingy little f*ckers!!

Raging_Ninja

El Weirdo wrote: »

Slightly misleading thread title there...

Cold sores are caused by the herpes virus. Around the mouth it is called a cold sore. Around the genitals it is called herpes. Both are the same.

El Weirdo

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Cold sores are caused by the herpes virus.

I am entirely aware of that fact, thank you very much, Dr. Ninja.

Raging_Ninja

El Weirdo wrote: »

I am entirely aware of that fact, thank you very much, Dr. Ninja.

OK. So if you have a cold sore and pass it on through intimate contact, is that really a crime?

El Weirdo

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

OK. So if you have a cold sore and pass it on through intimate contact, is that really a crime?

No, but in the OP, the girl didn't get a "cold sore", did she?

Olive8585

Why do some people find it so hard to understand statistics?

By the age of 25, seven out of ten people carry this virus, statistically. By the age of 35, it would be very hard to find a woman who does not have this virus. If you've had seven partners, statistically we would expect you to have simplex herpes type 2 [which produces most genital herpes].

No. When you go to the link, you can see that seven out of ten people carry type one OR type two. So stating that it would be hard to find a woman of 35 or someone with seven partner who doesn't have herpes simplex type 2 is pure bollix. Herpes is common but it's not that common.

As for prosecuting someone for passing it on? To me, it would have to depend on whether or not the person knew they had it. If they did know and didn't tell, then yes, I think they deserve to be punished. If they didn't know they had it, then no.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

I used to get mouth ulcers every-time I eat peanuts. So I stopped eating them.

True story.

Frank Lee Midere

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Cold sore this is not, jebus OP.

Yeah it is.

Frank Lee Midere

Olive8585 wrote: »

Why do some people find it so hard to understand statistics?



No. When you go to the link, you can see that seven out of ten people carry type one OR type two. So stating that it would be hard to find a woman of 35 or someone with seven partner who doesn't have herpes simplex type 2 is pure bollix. Herpes is common but it's not that common.

As for prosecuting someone for passing it on? To me, it would have to depend on whether or not the person knew they had it. If they did know and didn't tell, then yes, I think they deserve to be punished. If they didn't know they had it, then no.

Presumably they worked out the odds for the 7 partners.

KyussBishop

Well it's proven to cause many types of cancers, so yes, I think it's good to have it taken seriously like this.

Olive8585

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Presumably they worked out the odds for the 7 partners.

explain

A_Sober_Paddy

So does this mean, that if i develop throat cancer via a HPV virus contracted while performing oral sex on a women, will she get charged?

Same thing in principal

Linky http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/HPV

KyussBishop

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

So does this mean, that if i develop throat cancer via a HPV virus contracted while performing oral sex on a women, will she get charged?

Same thing in principal

If she knew she had HPV, and didn't tell you, why not?

Frank Lee Midere

Olive8585 wrote: »

explain

Why are you confused. I read the links and the other links from it. 70% at age 25. A .3 chance of any one partner not having herpes 1 or 2. Assuming that you have a perfect chance of getting it from a partner the odds for a person with 7 partners not meeting some one with it is

0.3^7.

=

0.0002187

Or .02% chance.

So clearly even if it's isn't 100% transmit able and even if we are concentrating on herpes 2 it's still going to be very low odds of not having it after 7 partners.

Frank Lee Midere

KyussBishop wrote: »

If she knew she had HPV, and didn't tell you, why not?

You are going to jail most sexual active adults at this rate.

Olive8585

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Why are you confused. I read the links and the other links from it. 70% at age 25. A .3 chance of any one partner not having herpes 1 or 2. Assuming that you have a perfect chance of getting it from a partner the odds for a person with 7 partners not meeting some one with it is

0.3^7.

=

0.0002187

Or .02% chance.

So clearly even if it's isn't 100% transmit able and even if we are concentrating on herpes 2 it's still going to be very low odds of not having it after 7 partners.

No. There isn't one statistic there about the prevalence of type 2. Only about the two types combined. 70% of people have one or the other by age 25, but there's nothing there to tell us what percentage of that 70% have type 2, so how can they possibly have got the statistic that someone with seven partners would be expected to have herpes simplex type 2?

KyussBishop

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You are going to jail most sexual active adults at this rate.

It'd be overkill to just start jailing people, but isn't it something that warrants a deterrence, for public health?

Lets make it a bit less ambiguous: What if the person who got HPV, was lied to, mislead into believing the other person didn't have it? I think that at least, warrants a case.

A_Sober_Paddy

KyussBishop wrote: »

It'd be overkill to just start jailing people, but isn't it something that warrants a deterrence, for public health?

Lets make it a bit less ambiguous: What if the person who got HPV, was lied to, mislead into believing the other person didn't have it? I think that at least, warrants a case.

A high portion of the population has some form of HPV

Maphisto

Olive8585 wrote: »

Why do some people find it so hard to understand statistics?



No. When you go to the link, you can see that seven out of ten people carry type one OR type two. So stating that it would be hard to find a woman of 35 or someone with seven partner who doesn't have herpes simplex type 2 is pure bollix. Herpes is common but it's not that common.

As for prosecuting someone for passing it on? To me, it would have to depend on whether or not the person knew they had it. If they did know and didn't tell, then yes, I think they deserve to be punished. If they didn't know they had it, then no.

Abso-bloodly-lutely

So much of the law is concerned with two things that you did it (Actus reus) and your intent or state of mind (mens rea). If this guy passed it on and meant to do so, and then pleaded guilty. Well he got what he deserved.

Olive8585

KyussBishop wrote: »

Well it's proven to cause many types of cancers, so yes, I think it's good to have it taken seriously like this.

Herpes simplex (HSV) does not cause any cancer.
The human papilloma virus (HPV) can cause a number of cancers.

shampon

KyussBishop wrote: »

Well it's proven to cause many types of cancers, so yes, I think it's good to have it taken seriously like this.

You don't seem to understand the deaaaaal....

Banjo String

There's an auld wan in the Spar in Ballyfermot keeps trying to give me cold sores on my chicken fillet baguette :eek:

"Sorry love, D'ya want coldsore on it? "

Eh.... No thanks your grand.

Honest, that's what she calls coleslaw.

c_man

cletus van damme

those herpes stats are bollox.

if that was the case - most sexually active people even in the absence of symptoms would still be getting a positive result when tested.
This doesn't happen

Olive8585

cletus van damme wrote: »

those herpes stats are bollox.

if that was the case - most sexually active people even in the absence of symptoms would still be getting a positive result when tested.
This doesn't happen

Hardly anyone is ever tested for herpes. Herpes is NOT included in the vast majority of sexual health screens.

Fun fact of the day.

Overthrow

cletus van damme wrote: »

those herpes stats are bollox.

if that was the case - most sexually active people even in the absence of symptoms would still be getting a positive result when tested.
This doesn't happen

They don't bother testing for that exact reason. Most people have been in contact with it and as a result have the antibodies that are associated with it. If you've been with more than 7 or 8 partners it's more likely that you do have it than don't have it. It's such a trivial virus that it's not even worth testing whether you do or do not have it.

ballsymchugh

Olive8585 wrote: »

Herpes simplex (HSV) does not cause any cancer.
The human papilloma virus (HPV) can cause a number of cancers.

it's becoming quite a big deal lately...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/changing-sexual-habits-raise-mouth-cancer-risk-268377.html#.U3HTL8HiP7Y.facebook

Boombastic

if you can sue/jail someone for giving you the herpes, can you also jail/sue someone for giving you the pregnancy?

KyussBishop

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

A high portion of the population has some form of HPV

So?

KyussBishop

Olive8585 wrote: »

Herpes simplex (HSV) does not cause any cancer.
The human papilloma virus (HPV) can cause a number of cancers.

Ah, I was wrong there - however, it is implicated in other diseases still, which makes it still potentially harmful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virus#Connection_between_facial_sores_and_Alzheimer.27s_disease

WilyCoyote

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

I used to get mouth ulcers every-time I eat peanuts. So I stopped eating them.

True story.

Perhaps that stunted your growth? :eek:

IvyTheTerrible

Overthrow wrote: »

They don't bother testing for that exact reason. Most people have been in contact with it and as a result have the antibodies that are associated with it. If you've been with more than 7 or 8 partners it's more likely that you do have it than don't have it. It's such a trivial virus that it's not even worth testing whether you do or do not have it.

Trivial but it can be dangerous, for example for newborn babies.

bodice ripper

anyone else think the UK is turning into a scary police state?

WilyCoyote

Does anyone know how the little boy in this article fared out? Malice and intent added:

One day a twelve year old boy walks into a brothel dragging a
dead frog behind him.
The Madam asks, "Can I help you son?"
He replies, "Yes I'd like a girl for the night."
She says, "I'm afraid you are too young for one of my girls."
So he gets out his wallet and gives her $200. To which she says,
"She'll be waiting for you up stairs."
The boy says, "But shes got to have active Herpes."
The Madam replies, "But all my girls are clean!"
So out comes the wallet again and he gives her another $200.
The Madam says, "OK,she'll be ready for you in about 10 mins".
So he goes up the stairs dragging the dead frog. 1/2 an hour
later he comes down the stairs,with a big grin on his face and
still dragging the dead frog.
By now the Madam was just a touch curious so she asked him,
"Why did you come in here,dragging a dead frog and asking for
a girl with active Herpes?".
"Well, it's like this", he says, "When I get home tonight I
fuck the baby-sitter and she'll get it. Then when my parents get
home dad will drive her home and on the way they'll stop and have
sex, and he'll get it. Later when dad gets home mum and dad will
make love and she'll get it. And at about 9.30 tomorrow morning,
when dad has gone to work, the Gardener will come round, fuck my
mother and he'll get it. AND HE'S THE BASTARD WHO KILLED MY LITTLE FROG!"

Bongalongherb

Banged up in prison for giving a dose of the itchyfeckers, The world is insane.

cletus van damme

Olive8585 wrote: »

Hardly anyone is ever tested for herpes. Herpes is NOT included in the vast majority of sexual health screens.

Fun fact of the day.

no way!

15 years ago (aged just 21 ) I was brutalised in the mater and herpes was on the menu. interesting they were called VD then rather than STI.

after the mater and it's brutality I went private to dr freedman for numerous testings and herpes testing was always on the scorecard.

I know my mate went to local GP in swords and was also tested for this. But can't vouch for all GPs tbh.

If what you say is true , I'm shocked.

But i maintain those stats are ****e.

Olive8585

cletus van damme wrote: »

no way!

15 years ago (aged just 21 ) I was brutalised in the mater and herpes was on the menu. interesting they were called VD then rather than STI.

after the mater and it's brutality I went private to dr freedman for numerous testings and herpes testing was always on the scorecard.

I know my mate went to local GP in swords and was also tested for this. But can't vouch for all GPs tbh.

If what you say is true , I'm shocked.

But i maintain those stats are ****e.

Dr Freedman doesn't test for herpes now and AFAIK hasn't done any time in the last 5+ years. It's very unusual for an STI screen to include herpes.

Overthrow

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Trivial but it can be dangerous, for example for newborn babies.

There is a risk for the newborn baby if born during an outbreak in which case a cesarian will be performed. I believe for most people outbreaks are few and far between and continually reduce in frequency with age.

end of the road

cant touchthis wrote: »

In the UK, You Can Be Jailed for Giving Your Girlfriend Herpes
Crazy.

How does this make it to court and why is he pleading guilty to something he doesn't even know for sure he did.

Ah worse it's getting.

ah, but, but, shur tis in the "public interest" or whatever excuse the CPS use to waste money like this to pander to the daily mail readers, would be laughable stuff if it wasn't real

IvyTheTerrible

Overthrow wrote: »

There is a risk for the newborn baby if born during an outbreak in which case a cesarian will be performed. I believe for most people outbreaks are few and far between and continually reduce in frequency with age.

Fair enough.
I just remember being interrogated by a midwife because I had cracked lips when I went in to have my baby and she didn't believe me when I said it wasn't a coldsore, she was telling me how serious it was!

end of the road

KyussBishop wrote: »

It'd be overkill to just start jailing people, but isn't it something that warrants a deterrence, for public health?

no as it won't be a deterrent, people who believe in deterrents are deluded in my opinion

end of the road

Boombastic wrote: »

if you can sue/jail someone for giving you the herpes, can you also jail/sue someone for giving you the pregnancy?

wouldn't surprise me if that does end up happening as a CPS show trial

jsd1004

KyussBishop wrote: »

Well it's proven to cause many types of cancers, so yes, I think it's good to have it taken seriously like this.

Ignorant comment. Why comment when you don't know what you are talking about. Cervical cancer is a STI. HPV as herpes is in 90 % of the population but only a small fraction show symptoms. Herpes does not cause a cancer. HPV does

cletus van damme

Olive8585 wrote: »

Dr Freedman doesn't test for herpes now and AFAIK hasn't done any time in the last 5+ years. It's very unusual for an STI screen to include herpes.

interesting.
havent seen him in more than 5 year

KyussBishop

jsd1004 wrote: »

Ignorant comment. Why comment when you don't know what you are talking about. Cervical cancer is a STI. HPV as herpes is in 90 % of the population but only a small fraction show symptoms. Herpes does not cause a cancer. HPV does

And I acknowledged that with another poster...herpes is not benign either, as it is implicated in other health problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virus#Connection_between_facial_sores_and_Alzheimer.27s_disease

KyussBishop

end of the road wrote: »

no as it won't be a deterrent, people who believe in deterrents are deluded in my opinion

Deterrents are how much of the entire legal system works?