McDonagh Station Kilkenny

danjo-xx

Can anyone post a pic of the rail line from Dublin/Waterford where it branches off to Kilkenny city.

I'm just curious about this.

People say the train has to pull into McDonagh station and then back out which is true, I was up there today first time on a train in ages:D

I didnt get a sense that the train had to pull off the Dub/Wat line to go into KK not even on the return journey. Would love to see a map of the line round there.

tazwaz

danjo-xx wrote: »

Can anyone post a pic of the rail line from Dublin/Waterford where it branches off to Kilkenny city.

I'm just curious about this.

People say the train has to pull into McDonagh station and then back out which is true, I was up there today first time on a train in ages:D

I didnt get a sense that the train had to pull off the Dub/Wat line to go into KK not even on the return journey. Would love to see a map of the line round there.

Haven't been on the train to dublin in a year or so but it never went as far as kilkenny. It goes from waterford to thomastown and then goes back onto the dublin track from there.

coylemj

To understand the layout, you need to see the network as it existed before several sections were closed.

That line originally went north from Waterford via Thomastown, Bennetsbridge, Kilkenny, Ballyragget, Abbeyleix, Portlaoise and Portarlington where it met the Dublin to Athlone line. There was also a west-east link from Kilkenny via Gowran to Bagnalstown (Muine Beag) where it met another north-south track running along the Barrow of which the section south of Muine Beag is now closed.

The lines north of Kilkenny and south of Muine Beag are now closed so the train from Waterford to Dublin runs along what was two railway lines, that's why it has to go into Kilkenny, then back east to join the other track via Muine Beag. Kilkenny is now a cul-de-sac on today's network.

There is a bend on the line north of Thomastown which allows trains to bypass Kilkenny and go straight to Muine Beag though looking at the timetable, the only Waterford-Dublin trains which takes that shortcut (bypassing KK) is the Mon-Sat 07:10 Waterford-Heuston train.

One of the best rail maps of Ireland is the one produced for the Viceregal Commission of 1906, it's the second map on the right here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland

Jamie2k9

danjo-xx wrote: »

Can anyone post a pic of the rail line from Dublin/Waterford where it branches off to Kilkenny city.

I'm just curious about this.

People say the train has to pull into McDonagh station and then back out which is true, I was up there today first time on a train in ages:D

I didnt get a sense that the train had to pull off the Dub/Wat line to go into KK not even on the return journey. Would love to see a map of the line round there.

The Junction is located at Lavistown. You don't notice it unless you are on the left (ex Heuston) or right (ex Waterford) side of the train and as your not a frequent user you wouldn't of notice it going over the points.

To make it easier to see:
Red Box - line into Kilkenny station interchange
Yellow Box - line towards Dublin
Blue Box - line towards Waterford
Green Box - bypass Kilkenny

corktina

Exactly what is needed at Athenry

loyatemu

coylemj wrote: »

There is a bend on the line north of Thomastown which allows trains to bypass Kilkenny and go straight to Muine Beag though looking at the timetable, the only Waterford-Dublin trains which takes that shortcut (bypassing KK) is the Mon-Sat 07:10 Waterford-Heuston train.

I assume freight trains going to Waterford also use it...

bg07

loyatemu wrote: »

I assume freight trains going to Waterford also use it...

Do they not have to? I think the run around facility at Kilkenny Station may have been ripped up

Jamie2k9

bg07 wrote: »

Do they not have to? I think the run around facility at Kilkenny Station may have been ripped up

They always have even if the change facility was in Kilkenny.

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

Exactly what is needed at Athenry

Why considering Athenry is probably the busiest station on the Galway route, bypassing WRC services would be madness as the lost revenue couldn't be made up and wouldn't justify the costs of a bypass line.

end of the road

coylemj wrote: »

That line originally went north from Waterford via Thomastown, Bennetsbridge, Kilkenny, Ballyragget, Abbeyleix, Portlaoise and Portarlington where it met the Dublin to Athlone line. There was also a west-east link from Kilkenny via Gowran to Bagnalstown (Muine Beag) where it met another north-south track running along the Barrow of which the section south of Muine Beag is now closed.

the north south track i believe was the Bagnalstown to wexford line vwhich went via bally william? and some other places, i think it either joined up at the junction of the rosslare/dublin and wexford/new-ross/waterford lines or else it joined at the junction of the old line that connected the wexford/new-ross/waterford lines with the rosslare waterford line, i'm interested in this line actually but i can't find hardly any info on it so losty, jd? can you help?

coylemj

end of the road wrote: »

the north south track i believe was the Bagnalstown to wexford line vwhich went via bally william? and some other places, i think it either joined up at the junction of the rosslare/dublin and wexford/new-ross/waterford lines or else it joined at the junction of the old line that connected the wexford/new-ross/waterford lines with the rosslare waterford line, i'm interested in this line actually but i can't find hardly any info on it so losty, jd? can you help?

Click on that link I posted above, you'll see that line and all the stations on it on the 1906 map.

end of the road

coylemj wrote: »

Click on that link I posted above, you'll see that line and all the stations on it on the 1906 map.

ah brilliant, thanks

icdg

danjo-xx wrote: »

People say the train has to pull into McDonagh station and then back out which is true, I was up there today first time on a train in ages:D

Killarney station is, oddly enough very similar - a so called "stub" station on the Mallow-Tralee route.

danjo-xx

thanks lads about how long extra does pulling in and out of KK station add.

Julius Seizure

It depends. It's a stop on the route and treated as a main stop but it's about 4 km from Lavistown to Kilkenny and then back again.

It's 12 minutes from Thomastown to Kilkenny. 2/5/8/ minute break in Kilkenny depending on other train being on time, how many passengers etc. Then it's 14 minutes to Muine Bheag. If that gives you any reference.

For a different approach, express Waterford to Carlow is 50minutes, stopping varies between 1h and 1h10 so if we disregard the amount of time it takes to stop at Thomastown and Muine Bheag it's 10 minutes longer with the shortest wait in Kilkenny, so it doesn't have much of an effect on journey time. That's in optimal conditions, it can add up to 20 when there's a delay in Kilkenny waiting for the passing train, very common.

end of the road

as annoying as the going in and out of kilkenny is, its probably still faster then if they had retained and improved via portlaoise instead

Julius Seizure

end of the road wrote: »

as annoying as the going in and out of kilkenny is, its probably still faster then if they had retained and improved via portlaoise instead

Hmm, I wonder. I tracked the Portlaoise line on Google maps and it seemed quite short and direct. What would be great would be if double tracking was extended from Legettsrath to Lavistown which could save 5 minutes at least per train...

Jamie2k9

Julius Seizure wrote: »

It depends. It's a stop on the route and treated as a main stop but it's about 4 km from Lavistown to Kilkenny and then back again.

It's 12 minutes from Thomastown to Kilkenny. 2/5/8/ minute break in Kilkenny depending on other train being on time, how many passengers etc. Then it's 14 minutes to Muine Bheag. If that gives you any reference.

For a different approach, express Waterford to Carlow is 50minutes, stopping varies between 1h and 1h10 so if we disregard the amount of time it takes to stop at Thomastown and Muine Bheag it's 10 minutes longer with the shortest wait in Kilkenny, so it doesn't have much of an effect on journey time. That's in optimal conditions, it can add up to 20 when there's a delay in Kilkenny waiting for the passing train, very common.

4 is the shortest time in Kilkenny, the 2 minute stop is a mistake on the timetable and should read 7 instead.

Julius Seizure

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

4 is the shortest time in Kilkenny, the 2 minute stop is a mistake on the timetable and should read 7 instead.

4 is the shortest time but it is never 4, on the busier crossing trains at least. Especially on the 1142 to Heuston crossing the 1145 to Waterford (which is 5 by the way). You can even tell by the padding, you can leave Kilkenny 5 minutes late and get to Dublin on time.

Jamie2k9

Julius Seizure wrote: »

4 is the shortest time but it is never 4, on the busier crossing trains at least. Especially on the 1142 to Heuston crossing the 1145 to Waterford (which is 5 by the way). You can even tell by the padding, you can leave Kilkenny 5 minutes late and get to Dublin on time.

They regularly do 4 on some of the busiest services however it's only scheduled on one service.

I agree crossing services in Kilkenny isn't good operationally and the costs of running both lines from the junction into KK and would help a lot.

The problem with the 11.42/45 service crossings is the 11.00 is affected by TSR's on Waterford line which push the arrival a little lather and the 10.15 timetable is to tight by around 2 minutes and is regularly held north of the junction if it manages to stick to the timetable waiting for the 11.00 to clear.

Judgement Day

end of the road wrote: »

as annoying as the going in and out of kilkenny is, its probably still faster then if they had retained and improved via portlaoise instead

I seem to recall that the Portlaoise/Kilkenny route was treated as the mainline and the dining cars ran on those trains rather than on the Kilkenny via Cherryville Junction route.

Julius Seizure

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They regularly do 4 on some of the busiest services however it's only scheduled on one service.

I agree crossing services in Kilkenny isn't good operationally and the costs of running both lines from the junction into KK and would help a lot.

The problem with the 11.42/45 service crossings is the 11.00 is affected by TSR's on Waterford line which push the arrival a little lather and the 10.15 timetable is to tight by around 2 minutes and is regularly held north of the junction if it manages to stick to the timetable waiting for the 11.00 to clear.

Yeah I suppose. Although services aren't the quickest in Kilkenny either, I was getting the 1145 to Waterford and we didn't leave until after 1150 because the booking office line was too long, but of course there was only one person in the office because someone "had" to be at the platform door, a relatively new system! Yeah I've been stuck at dunbell a few times.

It's a shame as if it was double to the junction then they could call at the station, do an immediate turn around (I think I remember someone on platform 11 saying it takes longer for longer trains? 4 coaches might be fixing this compared to 2x3 coaches)

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

I seem to recall that the Portlaoise/Kilkenny route was treated as the mainline and the dining cars ran on those trains rather than on the Kilkenny via Cherryville Junction route.

interesting, always thought it would have made sence to have retained it for the waterford intercities, with the kilkenny intercities running via carlow, duplication was a stupid reason for closure in this case at least, to late now though

Jamie2k9

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Yeah I suppose. Although services aren't the quickest in Kilkenny either, I was getting the 1145 to Waterford and we didn't leave until after 1150 because the booking office line was too long, but of course there was only one person in the office because someone "had" to be at the platform door, a relatively new system! Yeah I've been stuck at dunbell a few times.

It's a shame as if it was double to the junction then they could call at the station, do an immediate turn around (I think I remember someone on platform 11 saying it takes longer for longer trains? 4 coaches might be fixing this compared to 2x3 coaches)

Longer trains mean longer walk for drivers however 4 minutes is doable for all services however its people turning up to late and station staff that hold trains. Really 2 minutes before departure should be enforced however there has being a big improvement in departure times from the station. (months of raising the problem with IE) have started to get the message home.

Running both lines into the station would take away the current 5 minute gaps between trains running between the station to Lavistown.

road_high

Judgement Day wrote: »

I seem to recall that the Portlaoise/Kilkenny route was treated as the mainline and the dining cars ran on those trains rather than on the Kilkenny via Cherryville Junction route.

Isn't that closed since the early 60s? I think they choose the correct line to retain as the route between KK and Portlaoise is a more rural area. The other lines serves Carlow and south Kildare which makes the line more viable IMHO.

Julius Seizure

Yup, closed a while. And definitely agree with you, Waterford services needed to serve more than just Waterford and Kilkenny and Ballyragget wouldn't have as much loadings as the carlow route

Losty Dublin

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Yup, closed a while. And definitely agree with you, Waterford services needed to serve more than just Waterford and Kilkenny and Ballyragget wouldn't have as much loadings as the carlow route

The line via Carlow was retained because it had more towns on the line as well as freight customers, notably the sugar beet plant in Carlow and the cement plant in Athy. Ballyragget was on the Castlecomer branch. It closed at the same time as the Portlaois road and yes, there is feck all there

JD, I had read that before about the diners.

road_high

Sounds exactly like when they were the choosing the M9 route. There was a cheaper proposal to go via Durrow and meet the M8 but the chosen route was better in terms of serving more towns. There is a lot of traffic between Kk and Carlow so the new road is very useful for this.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

road_high

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There is actually. ADDT's on this stretch compare well with many equivalent stretches of M8,7 and 6.

Jamie2k9

There is only approx 1500 more journeys between KK and Carlow on the M9 than Waterford.