Anakin/Vader

Frankie5Angels

I read but never thought I'd actually post on this forum :pac:

I've followed SW since I was a young lad, though I wouldn't be religious about it. Anything you read or see, particularly in both trilogies, alludes to Skywalker/Vader being the most powerful jedi/sith ever. That said, he never seems to be portrayed as such. Original trilogies he's just the Emperor's bitch, prequels he's a kid who gets walloped every time he fights. I've been watching the Clone Wars series recently and anyone he comes up against whops him as well: Ventress, Dooku, etc etc. Is there stuff in the Expanded Universe that actually makes him live up to his reputation? I just think for all the power he's supposed to have had, it never really got shown (I know Lucas f*cked the prequels up, so that has probably played its part).

Just be interested to know if anyone else thought the same, or are you all grown ups now?!

Mickalus

For the original trilogy, his prowess in the force was dulled loads by the fact he was no longer fully human. Every piece of flesh lost, meant less of a connection to the force.

The prequel trilogy was really supposed to show his growth in the force. In some ways it did show that growth and his prowess as being one of the most powerful jedi. His piloting ability was second to none, his fighting ability was tremedous - he bested Dooku, one of most skilled swordfighters in the galaxy, and a sith lord.

In other ways it showed how he was manipulated into not becoming the Jedi he could have been by Sidious, and his 'weaknesses' from a sith point of view meant he was only just unlocking that Sith potential by the end of the third movie, where ultimately he lost too much of a connection to the force to actually be the most powerful. Hence his place at the Emperors right hand side. He wasn't more powerful than the Emperor, and he knew it.

ziedth

I reckon they went down the wrong route with Anakin. IMO it would have been better if he was powerful with force powers while only average with a light saber.

It would explain how Obi-Wan bested him and all rather then just having the high ground which always felt a bit ****e to me.

Frankie5Angels

Mickalus wrote: »

For the original trilogy, his prowess in the force was dulled loads by the fact he was no longer fully human. Every piece of flesh lost, meant less of a connection to the force.

The prequel trilogy was really supposed to show his growth in the force. In some ways it did show that growth and his prowess as being one of the most powerful jedi. His piloting ability was second to none, his fighting ability was tremedous - he bested Dooku, one of most skilled swordfighters in the galaxy, and a sith lord.

In other ways it showed how he was manipulated into not becoming the Jedi he could have been by Sidious, and his 'weaknesses' from a sith point of view meant he was only just unlocking that Sith potential by the end of the third movie, where ultimately he lost too much of a connection to the force to actually be the most powerful. Hence his place at the Emperors right hand side. He wasn't more powerful than the Emperor, and he knew it.

Yeah, fair point. I just never equated losing the body parts as diminishing his force powers, i.e. Yoda is only tiny and he's still able to move X wings and those Senate seats about no problems.

Agree with Ziedth there on the whole 'high ground' thing, but that was typical of Lucas for those trilogies overall. It was ridiculous how quickly Anakin submitted to Sidious' will too, just a quick 'ok, I'll serve you now' and then goes off and kills a heap of kids, which he wouldn't have contemplated five minutes beforehand.

ziedth

That's the thing. IMO they actually went about the whole thing wrong. I reckon Anakin would have been better as a baddie you route for.

If any of you have seen Michael Fassbender play Magneto in X-Men: First class I reckon that kind of thing would have been perfect. He's obviously bad but you can see and understand why. At least then the Dark side could have just tipped him over the edge into the child Killer that George Lucas wanted him to go.

Spoonman75

I don't think "Anakin as the most powerful Jedi ever" was the route that Lucas wanted to go down. He was considered to be The Chosen One. He was supposed to bring balance to the force and he did that at the end of ROTJ. The fact that he didn't stick to the Jedi code didn't do him any favours either.

Frankie5Angels

Spoonman75 wrote: »

I don't think "Anakin as the most powerful Jedi ever" was the route that Lucas wanted to go down. He was considered to be The Chosen One. He was supposed to bring balance to the force and he did that at the end of ROTJ. The fact that he didn't stick to the Jedi code didn't do him any favours either.

Possibly not, but nearly all films or tv shows or whatever containing him reference his great power and/or his ability as a swordsman. That being said, he's constantly overwhelmed by other characters. That might well be down to his impetuousness etc, though.

BopNiblets

To me being a powerful Jedi was a bit meaningless, because sure he had lots of power as a Jedi, but he was also taught to be a peacekeeper (like when Obi wan teaches him to think and have patience), so it's like his power is constantly being subdued by the Jedi training to calm the flip down and not murder 100 dudes!
On a few occasions we get to see this slip, mostly in the presence of Palpatine/Sidious, like when he kills Dooku, and when he flips out completely and wipes out the whole Jedi temple.
So he was a powerful Jedi alright, but only when he turns is it fully unleashed.
And there is some stuff of him being badass in the EU I'm sure.

irishthump

ziedth wrote: »

It would explain how Obi-Wan bested him and all rather then just having the high ground which always felt a bit ****e to me.

I really can't see the problem with the whole "high ground" thing...

In ROTS Obi Wan held a physical advantage over Anakin by being on the higher ground, Anakin's arrogance and over-confidence in his new found power forced him into making a costly error!

syklops

irishthump wrote: »

I really can't see the problem with the whole "high ground" thing...

In ROTS Obi Wan held a physical advantage over Anakin by being on the higher ground, Anakin's arrogance and over-confidence in his new found power forced him into making a costly error!

In the few books I read, "General" Kenobi was known for his light saber style. He fought in a defensive manner. Could fight for hours, blocking every parry. He wore his quarries down and then they got frustrated and made stupid mistakes. Not dissimilar to Ice-man from Top Gun.

In Anakin, this is exactly what happened. Anakin made a ballsy gamble, and lost.

Myrddin

irishthump wrote: »

I really can't see the problem with the whole "high ground" thing...

In ROTS Obi Wan held a physical advantage over Anakin by being on the higher ground, Anakin's arrogance and over-confidence in his new found power forced him into making a costly error!

That's how I always viewed it, it was a demonstration of the arrogance that had filled Anakin

karaokeman

He was born with the potential to be the most powerful Jedi ever, but overconfidence and immaturity got in the way.