Andy Lee needs an impressive win on Cotto PPV card to save his declining career.

Alpha_zero

Is Andy Lee’s boxing career on the fast track to oblivion as he prepares for what could be his last chance saloon against John Jackson a fringe contender on the Martinez/Cotto PPV televised undercard!!!!!! When Andy first turned pro with Emanuel Stewart everyone was optimistic about his prospects in the pro game, however after nearly a decade he has yet to achieve anything of merit. The Jackson fight stems the tide of appearing at the wrong ends of obscure cards with unimpressive performances against journeymen and bums and he badly needs a performance.

In his first loss to Vera which was stopped premature, at the time it felt like an injustice however in hindsight we were seeing Lee’s stamina issues and defensive flaws which have since plagued his career exposed by various journeymen. Early against Chavez Jr. he performed well however once Chavez upped the temp he walked through lee and demolished him with ease. Since the loss Lee has drastically dropped his level of opposition fighting bums and journeymen yet struggled against Anthony Fitzgerald, escaping with a razor tight decision in his last fight against. Lee always struggles against tough durable opponents as his stamina issues are always exposed with his defensive flaws.

Looking back on his career its clear that Lee’s boxing ability was grossly exaggerated. Craig McEwan seriously exposed Lee tagging him easily making him look like an amateur. Lee was lucky to get the KO plus he flopped in the Olympics and nearly a decade as a pro has achieved nothing. I think everyone breathed a sigh of relief when the Golovkin fight fell through because Lee would be lucky to last 3 rounds. Moving to 154 is no remedy to Lee’s terrible stamina issues and could backfire. It’s very doubtful lee will become a world champion as he is not good enough, hell he didn’t deserve the fight against GGG. Since the loss to Chavez he has only fought bums and looked terrible.

magma69

To be honest, I can't disagree with any of that. It's a brutally honest summation of Andy Lee. I was a believer in Lee because at times he looked quality but he doesn't seem to be cut out for the top level.

Johner

pac_man wrote: »

I think he'd have a chance against Sturm or Quillin who are average belt holders.

I think they are still a level above Lee.

Alpha_zero

pac_man wrote: »

Interesting post.Taking the assumption that he struggles to make 154 after his next fight, I think he'd have a chance against Sturm or Quillin who are average belt holders.

I agree that sturm is average but has been in with a much higher calibre opponents than Andy. The move to 154 seem ludicrous to be honest considering his height, age plus I believe he has fought close to 168 a couple times as a pro. I understand not moving to 168 cause he would get destroyed.
Honestly 160 seem the best place and a fight with Macklin makes sense for both fighters, Macklin like Lee is not at the elite level. This would be a close fight and give the winner some much needed momentum to move forward. Winning a world title is a good achievement but doesn't make you an elite fighter just look at Darren Barker, Bernard Dunne etc.

Henno30

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I agree that sturm is average but has been in with a much higher calibre opponents than Andy. The move to 154 seem ludicrous to be honest considering his height, age plus I believe he has fought close to 168 a couple times as a pro. I understand not moving to 168 cause he would get destroyed.
Honestly 160 seem the best place and a fight with Macklin makes sense for both fighters, Macklin like Lee is not at the elite level. This would be a close fight and give the winner some much needed momentum to move forward. Winning a world title is a good achievement but doesn't make you an elite fighter just look at Darren Barker, Bernard Dunne etc.

A win over Lee does nothing for Macklin. He's already regarded as being a level above Lee.

Unless Andy improves his footwork to the point where he makes it much harder for his opponent to close the distance, or develops some sort of an inside game he's just going to get out hustled by any swarmer with a decent chin.

I actually thought he looked ok against Chavez Jr, all things considered. But he's looked woeful since. He's very nearly in journeyman territory as things stand. One more loss and he'll be done.

FTA69

Macklin is easily a cut above Lee, I can't understand why the two are made out to be equivalents at middleweight. Macklin was robbed against Sturm and put in a valiant effort against Martinez who was undoubtedly on the P4P list at the time. Lee has faced nowhere near the calibre Macklin has and has been made to look terrible against C Class fighters in the past.

I think Macklin would KO him handily to be honest.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Macklin is easily a cut above Lee, I can't understand why the two are made out to be equivalents at middleweight. Macklin was robbed against Sturm and put in a valiant effort against Martinez who was undoubtedly on the P4P list at the time. Lee has faced nowhere near the calibre Macklin has and has been made to look terrible against C Class fighters in the past.

I think Macklin would KO him handily to be honest.

Lee faced JCC, who at that time probably would have done a similar job on Macklin. Lee and Macklin are both average; Lee more so!

Lee with the intangibles beats Sturm. Sturm is one of the weakest champions in recent years!

Spazdarn

JCC was a great deal heavier than Andy on the night, he never stood a chance of holding him off.

JCC is a tougher opponent that Sturm so I don't really see how Macklin is all that much better than Lee...

I think Andy's move to 154 could be good if he loses the weight right, his punches might have enough in them to keep off guys at a lower weight. His stamina is still shocking though.

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

JCC is a tougher opponent that Sturm so I don't really see how Macklin is all that much better than Lee...

.

I would have to agree. Macklin, had he met that same JCC probably gets stopped.

boxer.fan

If Lee had faced Sturm at the same time Macklin did, I think Lee would have clinched it. Geale would have been easy pickings for Lee also. He's had a few very tough fights & is probably doing the right thing keeping busy for now as he develops his relationship with new Coach. The so called "Bums" & journeymen he has fought lately are generally very difficult to put away & are rarely KO'd. A few more bouts under Booth & who knows what position he will find himself in.

el flaco

I think if we were to compare (somewhat) like with like in the careers of Lee and Macklin there wouldn't be a lot separating them.
Lee is criticised (probably rightly) for not looking more impressive against lesser opposition, but I can recall several occasions when Macklin has really underwhelmed against guys with mediocre records.

Maybe part of Lee's problem is the same as Macklin's? - motivation for smaller fights.

Lee's stamina is definitely an issue. It's a pity, because he's an excellent punch-picker but just can't keep the output high enough throughout the fight. The minimal foot movement is a big issue against relentless opposition too, as Henno said.
Against top-level opposition i can't make a case for him winning. Much like Macklin.

In a matchup for a world title between Lee and Macklin I'd definitely side with Macklin based on his come-forward approach and tough head.
If it was a small hall fight with nothing on the line and knowing Macklin's fluctuating levels of performance I'd feel a lot less sure.

I hope Andy Lee can get to the top level, but I just can't see it.

Spazdarn

It's a shame nothing came of that sit down the four of them had. Macklin, Lee, Murray and Barker are all in and around the same level, there could have been some good contests between them. None are close to world class, but there would be some competitive fights.

Alpha_zero

FTA69 wrote: »

Macklin is easily a cut above Lee, I can't understand why the two are made out to be equivalents at middleweight. Macklin was robbed against Sturm and put in a valiant effort against Martinez who was undoubtedly on the P4P list at the time. Lee has faced nowhere near the calibre Macklin has and has been made to look terrible against C Class fighters in the past.

I think Macklin would KO him handily to be honest.

Macklin does have stamina issues too, he did beat sturm but then again who hasn't!!!!! However the final round saw sturm batter Macklin around the ring and he was out on his feet. A fight between Macklin/Lee would sell in Ireland get national TV coverage, hell Macklin is in bad need of putting back to back victories together and it's been a while since he had a KO win.
The fight to me is competitive one as both are not at the elite level, in fact none of the British/Irish middleweights are.

Alpha_zero

el flaco wrote: »

I think if we were to compare (somewhat) like with like in the careers of Lee and Macklin there wouldn't be a lot separating them.
Lee is criticised (probably rightly) for not looking more impressive against lesser opposition, but I can recall several occasions when Macklin has really underwhelmed against guys with mediocre records.

Maybe part of Lee's problem is the same as Macklin's? - motivation for smaller fights.

Lee's stamina is definitely an issue. It's a pity, because he's an excellent punch-picker but just can't keep the output high enough throughout the fight. The minimal foot movement is a big issue against relentless opposition too, as Henno said.
Against top-level opposition i can't make a case for him winning. Much like Macklin.

In a matchup for a world title between Lee and Macklin I'd definitely side with Macklin based on his come-forward approach and tough head.
If it was a small hall fight with nothing on the line and knowing Macklin's fluctuating levels of performance I'd feel a lot less sure.

I hope Andy Lee can get to the top level, but I just can't see it.

Honestly I think the biggest misconception about and Lee in Ireland is that he is a very talented boxer, which is not true. He is defensively flawed with no inside game and severe stamina issues. His last opponent who at best be described as a journeyman had a case for victory. He needs a big performance on the Cotto/Martinez card.

Alpha_zero

boxer.fan wrote: »

If Lee had faced Sturm at the same time Macklin did, I think Lee would have clinched it. Geale would have been easy pickings for Lee also. He's had a few very tough fights & is probably doing the right thing keeping busy for now as he develops his relationship with new Coach. The so called "Bums" & journeymen he has fought lately are generally very difficult to put away & are rarely KO'd. A few more bouts under Booth & who knows what position he will find himself in.

Geale wad definitely the weakest champion available at the time but Andy Lee doesn't beat him easily. Geale is better than Anthony Fitzgerald and he gave Lee a problem all night. Andy Looked his best under Emmanuel stweart but he looked like rubbish against those guys. His last opponent has a case that he won the damn fight.

walshb

I think Geale beats Lee 8/10 times.

Sturm beat Macklin, albeit very closely, but it was clear in that bout that anytime Sturm committed and opened up he was superior to Macklin. All Macklin had was work rate. That was it.

Henno30

ToiletFusion wrote: »

It's a shame nothing came of that sit down the four of them had. Macklin, Lee, Murray and Barker are all in and around the same level, there could have been some good contests between them. None are close to world class, but there would be some competitive fights.

Barker lost the belt and that was that. With a belt in the mix they could have made something happen.

It's a shame too, because there are really only two top class fighters in the division at the moment. There was room for a fun sideshow over here if one of them could have nailed down a title.

boxer.fan

Its a pity John Duddy is gone from the mix too. He would have made it a real nice domestic bash up.

Alpha_zero

boxer.fan wrote: »

Its a pity John Duddy is gone from the mix too. He would have made it a real nice domestic bash up.

Agreed and like all the others he was not a top level fighter and went the distance with Chavez Jr and had him hurt in the 6th.

Alpha_zero

pac_man wrote: »

Sturm style is impressive in the sense that he's a lot more active in the last 30 seconds and opens up. Macklin threw an enormous amount of body-shots in that fight that were obviously ignored by the judges.

Macklin did rely on volume of punches and landed body punches but looked ragged and tried in the championship rounds. The final round he was lucky not to get stopped and was battered around the ring for 3 mins.

He started like that against Jaime Moore and faded down the stretch. Sturm may be the weakest champion but the British/Irish middleweights can't beat him. I think Sturm did enough to beat Murray what do other think??

magma69

It should be noted to those thinking Lee has a good chance against Sturm, he was offered the fight a few years back and refused it.

megadodge

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Macklin did rely on volume of punches and landed body punches but looked ragged and tried in the championship rounds. The final round he was lucky not to get stopped and was battered around the ring for 3 mins.

He started like that against Jaime Moore and faded down the stretch. Sturm may be the weakest champion but the British/Irish middleweights can't beat him. I think Sturm did enough to beat Murray what do other think??

I think most people thought Murray was lucky to get the draw.