Car accident - who proves who is at fault

Hannaho

I was driving home through my estate this p.m. and someone driving out of the estate banged into my car causing the steering column to snap. The person in the other car immediately started saying it was my fault that I was driving too fast - I wasn't as I usually expect to see my son and some of his friends hanging out around the green where the accident happened - they are always on bikes and likely to appear around one of the bends. The driver in the other car tried to get her daughter to say I was driving to fast but the daughter (about aged 12) stated that she was a child and she couldn't really tell if I was driving too fast or not.

She called the Gardaí and we exchanged details - when I went to move my car, I wasn't able to do so, and then the Garda said the steering column was broken. She drove her car a bit down the road, but when she looked back and saw that my car wouldn't move and the Garda was calling the towing company, she stopped and said she thought there was something wrong with her car too.

When she was driving towards me initially, there were two parked cars on her side of the road, and none on mine, but she still drove through.

What happens now. Will the assessor come out and be able to decide whose fault it is - both of us took photos? If it's deemed to be my fault, I presume that my insurance has to pay for her car as well - does the fact that I have to pay for her car too make any difference to my insurance premium next year? If they can't decide who is at fault, I presume we each have to pay for our own. How does the assessor decide who is at fault? I've been very stressed recently and this is the last thing I needed!

Pat Mustard

Notify your insurance company about the accident. See a solicitor, who will be able to talk to the guard, and advise you on possibly hiring an engineer in relation to the issue of liability and a motor assessor in relation to car damage.

Photos of both cars would be very useful.

It is likely that the insurance company assessors will want to interview and inspect, etc.

youandme13

As far as I know who ever has a clear road ie no cars blocking the road has the right of way which would be you... My dad told me this when I first started and I always go by this rule of road..

Maphisto

Make some good drawings (as good as you can) of the road layout and parked cars, take some pictures as well.

I've said this on here before but years ago I had a head on where a pr1ck jumped the lights. All the potential witnesses carried on through the lights. So it was just me and him. He could say I jumped the lights. However I was able to show by drawings and photos what had happened. Won the claim and got my excess back.

I wish you all the best.

Exo

youandme13 explained it well. I'd recommend acquiring a dashcam and keeping it hidden from inside view (behind the rear view mirror), for situations like this. Most simply record, and re-record over the old footage in minute intervals when your memory card is filled; not having the need to remove it either - stays plugged in also, out of your way & you won't even notice it.

Regardless of what happened, if your side of the road was clear of parked cars, you had right of way and are clear from fault. She shouldn't have tried to squeeze by in a housing estate, moronic; that is, if she is at fault given this criteria.

Hannaho

Hi! Thanks to you all for replies.

I have great photos - about 20 of them showing the position of my car - but no sketches - it shows her car taking up most of the road, and the two parked cars on her side of the road. I think they're going to make a big meal of it - as when my car wasn't movable and needed to be towed, suddenly she felt there was something wrong with her car's steering. She also mentioned a bad back and this being no good for it - which I'm sure it isn't!

Do I need an assessor or an engineer to sort out who is responsible for the accident, and if I need an engineer, can someone recommend an engineer or company that does this sort of assessment for responsibility in an accident?

Maphisto

Hannaho wrote: »

Do I need an assessor or an engineer to sort out who is responsible for the accident, and if I need an engineer, can someone recommend an engineer or company that does this sort of assessment for responsibility in an accident?

That would normally be down to your insurance company. As they will be paying for those services I'd be inclined to leave that call to them.

Pat Mustard

Hannaho wrote: »

Do I need an assessor or an engineer to sort out who is responsible for the accident, and if I need an engineer, can someone recommend an engineer or company that does this sort of assessment for responsibility in an accident?

The insurance companies will send their assessors and decide what positions that they will take. Unless the other side's insurance company make no issue as to liability, it is possible that you may need to hire an engineer. If there is going to be an issue as to liability, you should probably get a solicitor, who would advise in relation to hiring a litigation engineer.

Hannaho

Thanks again to all of you for your comments. I forgot to say that we are both with the same insurance company - so I don't know how that influences things.

Santa Cruz

If the collision resulted from her failing to yield the right of way then a high percentage if not all of the liability attaches to her. The fact that photographs show cars parked on her side strenghtens your case. Having both drivers insured with the same company doesn't make much of a difference. Each client is different

ProfessorPlum

Surely if both parties are going through their insurance company, the company will be more likely to settle rather than engaging in a costly legal battle with itself?

seagull

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Surely if both parties are going through their insurance company, the company will be more likely to settle rather than engaging in a costly legal battle with itself?

That's the problem with situations like this. It's going to cost them the same to cover the damage, regardless of who's at fault. If they split the liability, they get two increased premiums instead of one.

234

seagull wrote: »

That's the problem with situations like this. It's going to cost them the same to cover the damage, regardless of who's at fault. If they split the liability, they get two increased premiums instead of one.

Without seeing the actuarial calculation you don't know that. Intuitively if fault is apportioned evenly then each premium could be increased by half of the increase if one party was solely at fault.

But then again, the increase would take into account previous history and a whole host of other factors. So the increase might be greater if A rather than B was found to be at fault or vice versa. In fact it might involve a greater overall increase if A was totally liable based on his previous poor record compares to splitting liability where B has a clean slate and would get a smaller increase than A.

If insurance companies were really willing to devote the time to acting in this manner it would create a massive regulatory risk for them that would probably not be worth the increase in premiums.

JimsAlterEgo

Santa Cruz wrote: »

If the collision resulted from her failing to yield the right of way then a high percentage if not all of the liability attaches to her. The fact that photographs show cars parked on her side strenghtens your case. Having both drivers insured with the same company doesn't make much of a difference. Each client is different

not cut and dry, if the OP was far enough way for her to assume she could get through before the OP then she is less liable. Also if she had started her maneouvre (as in passing first car) the OP should have given way.

NUTLEY BOY

To answer OP's original question she has to prove that the other party is liable.

The onus of proof rests on the OP. The standard of proof is the balance of probabilities.

Liability in situations like this is not always clear cut. The fact that the other motorist came to the wrong side bodes well for the OP. However, the absolutist view does not always prevail i.e. the accident happened on my side of the road so that is the end of it.

Use of the road rarely involves absolute rights. If this goes to court the judge will consider amongst other matters whether or not the OP may have contributed to the accident e.g. not driving with more consideration or whatever in the context of a housing estate.

I am not saying that the OP is at fault just pointing out that it is not always clear cut when evidence can be construed against you even when you know that you are in the right.

The fact that both motorists are insured with the same company could be a problem. The company cannot set itself up as the judge as they have a potential conflict of interest. They owe an obligation to each policyholder to act correctly. They might offer a 50/50 settlement to each policyholder on the condition that they both accept it - this eliminates any complaint of bias or conflict of interest. If both parties do not accept 50/50 the matter should be allowed to proceed to a hearing.

On the evidence, my sympathies are with the OP. Instinctively, the other motorist sounds to me like a classical example of an utter denier skilled in sophistry.

Great respect to the 12 year old who refused to be lead.:cool:

clockend1

Hi all

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question or not but here goes .... 8 years ago while in Northern Ireland I tipped the back of the car in front of me whilst attempting to get out on to a main road ... The car infront had actually moved to enter the main road them suddenly stopped I was literally going 0 to 1 mile an hour ... The couple got out we both examined cars no damage and everyone was mobilising freely it literally was a tap .... They asked for insurance details saying that something similar had previously happened and when they got home they discovered the boot was stuck ... Looking back I should have just said we'd check all there and then but I didn't and gave them my details only to receive a claim the following week for nearly €3000 personal injury .... I totally disputed this with my own insurance company and gave them a full account... I never heard another word until last week eight years later when the insurance company wrote saying further to previous correspondence the claim had been settled with the compensatory body of Northern Ireland and they had filed their papers .... Rang them today to be advised that the case was closed !!!!!! Am I wrong in asking how over the last 8 years I've received nothing from them and was never given to opportunity to defend this outrageous claim ... Is there anyone here who would give me some advise about where I go now ????? Have I been falsely getting insurance for myself these last few ayers as since I never heard anything I figured the claim was dropped.... Now this was probably stupidly on my part but where / what do I do now ???

Pro Hoc Vice

clockend1 wrote: »

Hi all

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question or not but here goes .... 8 years ago while in Northern Ireland I tipped the back of the car in front of me whilst attempting to get out on to a main road ... The car infront had actually moved to enter the main road them suddenly stopped I was literally going 0 to 1 mile an hour ... The couple got out we both examined cars no damage and everyone was mobilising freely it literally was a tap .... They asked for insurance details saying that something similar had previously happened and when they got home they discovered the boot was stuck ... Looking back I should have just said we'd check all there and then but I didn't and gave them my details only to receive a claim the following week for nearly €3000 personal injury .... I totally disputed this with my own insurance company and gave them a full account... I never heard another word until last week eight years later when the insurance company wrote saying further to previous correspondence the claim had been settled with the compensatory body of Northern Ireland and they had filed their papers .... Rang them today to be advised that the case was closed !!!!!! Am I wrong in asking how over the last 8 years I've received nothing from them and was never given to opportunity to defend this outrageous claim ... Is there anyone here who would give me some advise about where I go now ????? Have I been falsely getting insurance for myself these last few ayers as since I never heard anything I figured the claim was dropped.... Now this was probably stupidly on my part but where / what do I do now ???

The defendant usually hear nothing other than the first claim letter, the insurance company usually nominate a solicitor for service and in reality the defendant is ignored after that, that's why we pay insurance. You hit the car in front of you what where you going to argue, to claim compensation the plaintiff would need medical reports, would you have been in a position to say the doctors got it wrong.

kennM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The defendant usually hear nothing other than the first claim letter, the insurance company usually nominate a solicitor for service and in reality the defendant is ignored after that, that's why we pay insurance. You hit the car in front of you what where you going to argue, to claim compensation the plaintiff would need medical reports, would you have been in a position to say the doctors got it wrong.

Completely second this viewpoint. From a liability perspective there is nothing you can fight, you hit them. Then it boils down to medical proof of injuries.... where the onus on the plaintiff is to produce medico legal reports outlining and confirming injury etc. What medical expertise do you have to discredit/challenge a medical professionals findings and opinion? Your insurance company is entitled to have the plaintiff seen by their own medical experts to assess also.

Net lesson, be more careful.... sry.

brian_t

clockend1 wrote: »

Hi all

They asked for insurance details ... Looking back I should have just said we'd check all there and then but I didn't and gave them my details ???

If someone crashes into you, you are entitled to ask for their insurance details.

If they refuse it is recommended that you call out the Gardai so that they can get the insurance details.

clockend1

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The defendant usually hear nothing other than the first claim letter, the insurance company usually nominate a solicitor for service and in reality the defendant is ignored after that, that's why we pay insurance. You hit the car in front of you what where you going to argue, to claim compensation the plaintiff would need medical reports, would you have been in a position to say the doctors got it wrong.

Can it really take 8 years without any correspondence ??

And I'm a medical professional myself ....

clockend1

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The defendant usually hear nothing other than the first claim letter, the insurance company usually nominate a solicitor for service and in reality the defendant is ignored after that, that's why we pay insurance. You hit the car in front of you what where you going to argue, to claim compensation the plaintiff would need medical reports, would you have been in a position to say the doctors got it wrong.

I'd like to know exactly what medical injuries were being claimed for ....

Pro Hoc Vice

clockend1 wrote: »

I'd like to know exactly what medical injuries were being claimed for ....

Without looking at the medical reports would have no idea.

Nino Brown

I hate to sound like captain hindsight, but every time I see these threads it boggles my mind why people don't have dash cams! With all the idiots and scam artists on the roads these days, they're a no brainer.

clockend1

Nino Brown wrote: »

I hate to sound like captain hindsight, but every time I see these threads it boggles my mind why people don't have dash cams! With all the idiots and scam artists on the roads these days, they're a no brainer.

It's definitely an idea but eight years ago I'd never even heard of dash cans ...

clockend1

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Without looking at the medical reports would have no idea.

Exactly ... Did I have no legal right to that kind of information it's too late now after 8 years and a closed claim .... I would agree that if they were hurt in any way shape or form there should be some form of compensation but it was impossible to have hurt anyone like I said speed wasn't an issue I was initially stopped and as they moved so did I ... We both seen a car indicating to turn I to road and it would have been ok if that car hadn't then carried on and the car in front stopped .... I also get the whole idea of the person at rear being responsible but I really feel this was a totally bogus claim ...

Nino Brown

clockend1 wrote: »

Exactly ... Did I have no legal right to that kind of information it's too late now after 8 years and a closed claim .... I would agree that if they were hurt in any way shape or form there should be some form of compensation but it was impossible to have hurt anyone like I said speed wasn't an issue I was initially stopped and as they moved so did I ... We both seen a car indicating to turn I to road and it would have been ok if that car hadn't then carried on and the car in front stopped .... I also get the whole idea of the person at rear being responsible but I really feel this was a totally bogus claim ...

Of course it's totally bogus, they're clearly lying to get compensation, but you did hit them, so you were wrong. Anything that happened after that was your insurance company's problem not yours. So you've had a full NCB since then? Do you just lose that now because of something that happened 8 years ago?

clockend1

I have no idea and have changed insurance companies a few times within the last 8 years ...

Nino Brown

clockend1 wrote: »

I have no idea and have changed insurance companies a few times within the last 8 years ...

So you had you NCB's sent out to you then? Whenever you change insurers they ask for it.

And if so, you're current insurere won;t know and probably won't care about a claim from 8 years ago, so you'll prob get a full NCB this year too

clockend1

Nino Brown wrote: »

So you had you NCB's sent out to you then? Whenever you change insurers they ask for it.

And if so, you're current insurere won;t know and probably won't care about a claim from 8 years ago, so you'll prob get a full NCB this year too

Yes always got NCB cert and your right it probably won't make a difference .... Just surprised that I didn't hear a word Thor 8 years I'd all but forgot about it and I suppose I'm one who thinks mocking is catching and would never claim unless I needed too and totally begrudge a bogus claim

Nino Brown

clockend1 wrote: »

Yes always got NCB cert and your right it probably won't make a difference .... Just surprised that I didn't hear a word Thor 8 years I'd all but forgot about it and I suppose I'm one who thinks mocking is catching and would never claim unless I needed too and totally begrudge a bogus claim

I know some people just have that claim mentality, I can guarantee you that won't have been their first or last time to sue somebody.
But in a way you were lucky, if it had been resolved quicker you would have lost your NCB.

clockend1

Yeah never actually thought of it like that 😎