Sharing a boundary wall with another house building extension

jon1981

Hi,

The house next door is getting a ground floor extension out the back of their garden. They intend to extend along our back wall by about 5m. I was thinking the other day that it might up looking unsightly on our side as we will have our little garden wall (5.5ft) and then behind that this big ugly 10ft wall. I was thinking of suggesting to the neighbor that that make their extension wall the joint boundary wall and get rid of the section of garden wall on our side. Has anyone any experience of this?

any pros and cons to this? good idea?, at least then we could ensure a nice finish on the wall

Wabbit Ears

Quite the opposite, Id make sure that their extension, including the guttering and slate overhang does not go beyond half way accross the wall.
Why?
You or someone after you may want to build an extension yourself in the future. Having them build into your property makes that much more difficult
The walls foundations are wall foundations, not house foundations, If something were to collapse then you could be liable!!
Give a little, take a mile, basically you're giving them carte blanch to do whatever.

miss no stars

They'll need to put in a new foundation for it.

Pros: tidier for you at the moment.

The biggest con I can see is that if, down the line, you also decide to extend you won't be able to have as large a floor space as your neighbour. You won't be able to also build on their wall, and you may have issues building close to it due to weathering requirements.

Ask them if you can remove the boundary wall where they're building and grow clematis up their wall or something.

jon1981

Thanks for your opinion guys. So effectively I would need to get some legals drawn up mitigating myself from any liabilities but also ensuring that i am protecting against future extensions to the property down the line.

I guess I could replace the wall with taller wall and put a decent finish on that (some cladding or something).

murphaph

There could be pros for both sides if things were agreed contractually and in a legally binding manner (that's where you'd need a solicitor to advise) that would allow the OP to make equal use of the new party wall at a later stage.

The neighbours may not need eves or guttering on the OP's side, if the roof falls away from the boundary line. The neighbours could build their extension but the wall would become a party wall, shared by both sides, which the OP could later use to extend himself. He's need to agree a suitable render that would look ok in the mean time and not be a hindrance to using the wall for hi own extension later. Advantages for both sides obvious: more floor space and the elimination of an external wall (in case OP does extend) so more energy efficient, though the wall would need insulation initially as it will be an outside wall for some time. Also eliminates a dead space where rubbish, leaves etc. can accumulate.

jon1981

would you reckon it is a bit late to contemplate this if the build is due to start this week? I mean on their side , they haven't broken ground yet.

miss no stars

jon1981 wrote: »

Thanks for your opinion guys. So effectively I would need to get some legals drawn up mitigating myself from any liabilities but also ensuring that i am protecting against future extensions to the property down the line.

I guess I could replace the wall with taller wall and put a decent finish on that (some cladding or something).

If you want to agree to it with the caveat that it's to be designed to support their extension and any future extension of yours you'll need to get a solicitor involved, definitely. It would also have to be made a condition of any future sale of the neighbour's property, which I'm not sure you could do..?

The courts are clogged with boundary wall disputes, OP. Seriously, I'd be steering clear of letting them use the wall. Agree to a nice finish, but if it was me I'd never, ever let a neighbour extend on a mutual boundary wall.

jon1981

miss no stars wrote: »

The courts are clogged with boundary wall disputes, OP. Seriously, I'd be steering clear of letting them use the wall. Agree to a nice finish, but if it was me I'd never, ever let a neighbour extend on a mutual boundary wall.

thanks for the heads up, I'm starting to reconsider on this. I guess I have other options to making it look nicer on my side, I can always make our wall taller and render that.

riclad

MAYBE ask politely to see the plans,
i would not mind someone building right up to the boundary .
I Would check to see is there going to be a proper water gutter on top of the wall ,
and a pipe to drain water away.
Will the wall be rendered ,or will it be bare blocks .
Since building starts soon its too late to make major changes to the plans .

I,M presuming the neighbour has applied for planning permission for this extension.
So the council would expect the building to follow the plans precisely.

Spanish Eyes

Hi folks, could I, as a non builder or anything ask for some clarification about this issue. I think it might be coming up for me soon.

The neighbour is a big man, and he kind of intimidates me a bit about this kind of stuff. He and his wife have said they plan to build on the shared boundary wall, but they will knock it down and put in proper foundations, so that if I ever want to extend, one wall will be already done for me.

I'm a lady of a certain age, living alone. So I would dearly appreciate some feedback.

So, two houses at the moment share a boundary wall? Yes.

One neighbour wants to build an extension using the boundary wall, or dig it up and build on that boundary? Yes...?

Can you visualise what I mean? I think guttering and the roof might overhang me, so how do I get to build a similar extension?

Is he taking the proverbial?

Like OP, I'm a bit concerned.

Would each owner have to build inside the boundary? What happens to the wall?

Sorry if I haven't explained properly.

And many thanks.

miss no stars

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Hi folks, could I, as a non builder or anything ask for some clarification about this issue. I think it might be coming up for me soon.

The neighbour is a big man, and he kind of intimidates me a bit about this kind of stuff. He and his wife have said they plan to build on the shared boundary wall, but they will knock it down and put in proper foundations, so that if I ever want to extend, one wall will be already done for me.

I'm a lady of a certain age, living alone. So I would dearly appreciate some feedback.

So, two houses at the moment share a boundary wall? Yes.

One neighbour wants to build an extension using the boundary wall, or dig it up and build on that boundary? Yes...?

Can you visualise what I mean? I think guttering and the roof might overhang me, so how do I get to build a similar extension?

Is he taking the proverbial?

Like OP, I'm a bit concerned.

Would each owner have to build inside the boundary? What happens to the wall?

Sorry if I haven't explained properly.

And many thanks.

Nothing wrong in theory with it. They can build a parapet basically which will mean no overhang and will allow you (or a subsequent owner) to extend similarly in time. Both would build off the same wall basically.

He's not taking the proverbial, but again, you'll need to lawyer up to make sure that any agreement to share the wall between both future developments is explicit and carries over to any new owner. He's being genuine, doing the right thing by putting down a new foundation and new wall. Just make sure you have professional eyes on your side looking over things. Legal and also an engineer, just to have a look at their plans to make sure the wall can be used by you (or someone you sell to in the future) to extend onto.

daithi1970

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Hi folks, could I, as a non builder or anything ask for some clarification about this issue. I think it might be coming up for me soon.

The neighbour is a big man, and he kind of intimidates me a bit about this kind of stuff. He and his wife have said they plan to build on the shared boundary wall, but they will knock it down and put in proper foundations, so that if I ever want to extend, one wall will be already done for me.

I'm a lady of a certain age, living alone. So I would dearly appreciate some feedback.

So, two houses at the moment share a boundary wall? Yes.

One neighbour wants to build an extension using the boundary wall, or dig it up and build on that boundary? Yes...?

Can you visualise what I mean? I think guttering and the roof might overhang me, so how do I get to build a similar extension?

Is he taking the proverbial?

Like OP, I'm a bit concerned.

Would each owner have to build inside the boundary? What happens to the wall?

Sorry if I haven't explained properly.

And many thanks.

It sounds to me like he is taking the proverbial maybe take a trip in to your local authority and have a look at the plans, and if need be, talk to a solicitor about this-the guttering issue alone would be of concern.

Spanish Eyes

daithi1970 wrote: »

It sounds to me like he is taking the proverbial maybe take a trip in to your local authority and have a look at the plans, and if need be, talk to a solicitor about this-the guttering issue alone would be of concern.

Planning is not required as the area is less than 40sq m.

But I will ask them about the guttering. They are not unpleasant, but determined if you understand. And sure I'm just a woman on her own who knows nowt.

But I have steel magnolias when necessary! But I really do not want this issue to escalate. Life's too feckin short for boundary wars. But I don't want to be hoodwinked either.

Spanish Eyes

miss no stars wrote: »

Nothing wrong in theory with it. They can build a parapet basically which will mean no overhang and will allow you (or a subsequent owner) to extend similarly in time. Both would build off the same wall basically.

He's not taking the proverbial, but again, you'll need to lawyer up to make sure that any agreement to share the wall between both future developments is explicit and carries over to any new owner. He's being genuine, doing the right thing by putting down a new foundation and new wall. Just make sure you have professional eyes on your side looking over things. Legal and also an engineer, just to have a look at their plans to make sure the wall can be used by you (or someone you sell to in the future) to extend onto.

Thank you.

Can you describe the parapet you mention? Or is there a website I could look to for reference of a similar thing?

riclad

IF you build an extension in future ,you could use the shared wall,
it,ll save you money.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/lead-gutters/pic_4.jpg

IF you build in future you could use a shared gutter ,
to drain the roof water,from both sides.
SO its not an issue,

See pic above.

http://www.1stassociated.co.uk/article_images/box-gutter-sketch_clip_image002.jpg

SO To build an extension ,on your side , you,ll only need to build 3 walls instead of 4.

I dont think he,s taking advantage of you .

AS long as the wall is built properly with a proper foundation,
it should not be a problem for you.

IF you can afford to build an extension, you can afford to pay for a drain,gutter .

i know someone with a shared gutter,
on roof 30ft up,
Every 3 years someone has to go up and clean out leaves ,moss,from it, as it gets blocked,
its exactly on boundary ,
between 2 roofs.

ie its where 2 shared roofs meet ,in a terrace ,
ie there no gap between roofs.
gutter is right in the middle.

if the wall , Replaces the present wall ,boundary wall,
each of you owns half the wall.
ie he knocks down the wall and builds a new wall over it,
without building on your land .

ie new wall is exactly built where the present wall is.

IE theres no wall between the 2 roofs, just a lead gutter,3 inches wide.
at the bottom of a shallow v formed by the adjoining roofs.

miss no stars

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thank you.

Can you describe the parapet you mention? Or is there a website I could look to for reference of a similar thing?

The finished effect will sort of depend on the type of roof they put on (in terms of how obvious the parapet is) but basically...

The wall is built up slightly beyond the level of the roof. That means that no gutters or eaves overhang the boundary. All their drainage and roof is contained within their property. Should you wish to also have an extension, you would be able to use the wall in the same manner to support your roof. If. you look at the house with the red roof in this picture, it could ultimately look like the wall between it and the house to the right of it:



At the moment after your neighbour builds but before you extend (if you eventually do), it would look like the wall on the right hand side of the extension on the house 2 to the right of the house with the red roof (the rightmost house fully in the picture i.e. the end of terrace )

Do you get what I mean?

Don't agree to anything you're not happy with, but do make sure you understand the pros and cons of what you agree to. For instance, if you do agree to it but don't get legal paperwork in place, they might sell on and the new owners refuse to let you use their wall to extend onto. Conversely, if you don't allow it and then want to extend in future, weather proofing your extension could be tricky.

Wabbit Ears

Its where the roof runs along the side of the wall and not over the top so on your side is only wall and no overhang. You can do the same on your side without affecting his build and vice versa. you often see them on sides of houses with extensions

Spanish Eyes

miss no stars wrote: »

The finished effect will sort of depend on the type of roof they put on (in terms of how obvious the parapet is) but basically...

The wall is built up slightly beyond the level of the roof. That means that no gutters or eaves overhang the boundary. All their drainage and roof is contained within their property. Should you wish to also have an extension, you would be able to use the wall in the same manner to support your roof. If. you look at the house with the red roof in this picture, it could ultimately look like the wall between it and the house to the right of it:



At the moment after your neighbour builds but before you extend (if you eventually do), it would look like the wall on the right hand side of the extension on the house 2 to the right of the house with the red roof (the rightmost house fully in the picture i.e. the end of terrace )

Do you get what I mean?

Don't agree to anything you're not happy with, but do make sure you understand the pros and cons of what you agree to. For instance, if you do agree to it but don't get legal paperwork in place, they might sell on and the new owners refuse to let you use their wall to extend onto. Conversely, if you don't allow it and then want to extend in future, weather proofing your extension could be tricky.

Thank you so much. That is very clear now. But I don't know if HE will do this great plan for both of us. Maybe he will.. now that i know whats involved, i can ask with a bit of confidence, thanks to your pics.

That is so helpful. At least I can talk to him now with SOME knowledge.

So as I see it, the wall is built up by the side of the roof to hide guttering on both sides if necessary.

So if and when I build my extension, I just latch on to my side of the built up bit on the roof...(sorry if I haven't used the right description)

I have a feeling he might object to having to build the roof divider thing in the first place, but if he's building on a shared boundary, well that's his choice, as he's the first to do it I suppose!

riclad

You should ask, if his roof will project over the wall,
or stop in line with the wall,
where will the gutter, be placed.

IN STRICT legal terms, the new roof should not overhang ,past the existing wall, over your garden,
as the wall is the boundary.
Between the 2 propertys.

Maybe write down these questions,
get the answers in writing,
with pics or drawings showing where the new roof ,gutter is placed in relation to the existing wall.

IF you look at a standard ,house , the eaves, roof , usually juts out past the supporting wall ,
to protect the wall from rain.

YES if you build an extension , the new gutter can rest on the new wall.

I Don,t know what you mean by the roof divider thing.

jmayo

miss no stars wrote: »

Nothing wrong in theory with it. They can build a parapet basically which will mean no overhang and will allow you (or a subsequent owner) to extend similarly in time. Both would build off the same wall basically.

He's not taking the proverbial, but again, you'll need to lawyer up to make sure that any agreement to share the wall between both future developments is explicit and carries over to any new owner. He's being genuine, doing the right thing by putting down a new foundation and new wall. Just make sure you have professional eyes on your side looking over things. Legal and also an engineer, just to have a look at their plans to make sure the wall can be used by you (or someone you sell to in the future) to extend onto.

Exactly.
I think you need to see the plans and get expert opinion both building and legal.

Also I would make sure when the new wall is being built that you don't find the builder inching their way into your side.
A serious legit builder would not do it, but some will do whatever the piper paying asks.

Some people can try land grabs even if it is for only a few inches.

jon1981

We decided against pursuing the case. We spoke with the builders and it would require a lot of thought to figure out where the "middle" of the boundary wall would be.

riclad

Some people can try land grabs even if it is for only a few inches.

quote,

Thats why we have planning permission, rules ,
you can object to a building, if you think its too big ,or overhangs your land.
And you can examine the plans in your local council office.

IF the building requires planning permission.

Zadkiel

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Planning is not required as the area is less than 40sq m.

But I will ask them about the guttering. They are not unpleasant, but determined if you understand. And sure I'm just a woman on her own who knows nowt.

But I have steel magnolias when necessary! But I really do not want this issue to escalate. Life's too feckin short for boundary wars. But I don't want to be hoodwinked either.

Open to correction here, but under the new rules, is it not only exempt under 40sqm if the construction is done a minimum of 2 metres from each boundary?

riclad

ww.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

Building an extension to the rear of the house which does not increase the original floor area of the house by more than 40 square metres and is not higher than the house. The extension should not reduce the open space at the back of the house to less than 25 square metres which must be reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of your house. If your house has been extended before, the floor area of the extension you are now proposing and the floor area of any previous extension (including those for which you previously got planning permission) must not exceed 40 square metres. (There are also other height restrictions.)

ITS very easy by looking at the plans , side view to see does the roof ,
overhang the boundary wall. Any extension above ground floor level is at least 2m from any boundary
Any extension does not exceed the height of the house
Any extension does not reduce the area of private open space, reserved for the occupants of the house, to less than 25 square metres.


http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/developments-that-dont-need-planning-(exemptions)/



Yes i think you are right re 2m boundary rule.